Man Shoots At Intruders, Turns Out It Was A No-knock Raid. Now He Faces The Death Penalty

[emilynghiem]

My initial thoughts
1. the person who gave the bogus tip should also be held responsible
2. the officers and community should have had an advance agreement and training
on what procedures they are using to go after drug dealers.
So both the officers and the homeowners know the process
and can tell the difference if it is police or not. they would have to agree on procedures for identification
so there is no mistaking the criminals from police or law abiding citizens
3. in practice, in the process of training the community,
any criminals can be weeded out in advance. so this may reduce the necessity of surprise raids
that endanger the lives of both police and residents

4. how is this process following reasonable searches and seizures and due process?
if it is not even constitutionally sound, it puts people in undue danger by skipping steps people agree to follow

thewhole process seemed faulty and dangerous

I would have trouble trying to judge this frm the outside.
I would urge the people involved to work out a complete agreement
how to prevent the need for this, and focus on corrections.

if they heal their relations first, they can us ethat to form a fair
solution on how to deal with the aftermath of what went wrong

this problem cannot be solved by remaining as adversaries
the first step is to get on the same side, then you can solve the problems
and formulate an agreement on what restitution or correction is owed here

whoever slandered or libeled this man if he is not involved with drugs
is equally liable. if he does have involvement with drugs, that should be dealt with
as a separate issue. and this whole mess over what is police procedure should be addressed fully in itself.

Man Shoots at Intruders Turns Out it was a No-Knock Raid. Now He Faces the Death Penalty The Free Thought Project

On Friday, May 9, 2014, just after 5:30am in Killeen, Texas, Marvin Louis Guy was the target of a no knock raid.

The officers were looking for drugs, yet none were found in the home. There was some questionable paraphernalia, but nothing indicative of drug dealing- or anything damning enough for a reasonable person to feel the need to take an officers life.

Unfortunately the danger of no-knock raids is real. just ask the parents of baby Bou or the family of Detective Dinwiddie.

Detective Dinwiddie was one of the SWAT officers who broke into Guy’s house on May 9th, based on a seemingly bogus informant tip off about drugs being dealt from the home.

Likely alarmed by the men climbing through his windows at 5:30 in the morning, Guy and his wife sought to protect themselves and their property and fired on the intruders- in self defense.

Dinwiddie, along with three other officers were shot while attempting to breach the windows to the home, according to the department’s press release.

“The TRU was beginning to breach the window when the 49 year old male inside, opened fire striking four officers.”

Since the shooting occurred during the break in, a reasonable person would assume they had not yet identified themselves as police officers. How on earth is this not self defense?

Prosecutors are now seeking the death penalty against Guy. He is charged with capital murder in Dinwiddie’s death, as well as three counts of attempted capital murder for firing on the other officers during the shootout, injuring one other officer. Body armor protected others who were hit.

This announcement, given by the prosecutor in open court, comes one day after Governor Rick Perry presented Dinwiddie’s family with the Star of Texas award. This award is given out each year to police and first responders killed or injured in the line of duty, the Killeen Daily Herald reported.

Let’s flash back to December, in Texas, for a moment.

On December 19, also just before 6am, Burleson County Sgt. Adam Sowders, led a team in a no-knock marijuana raid on Henry Goedrich Magee’s mobile home in Somerville.

Also startled by these intruders, Magee opened fire, fearing for the safety of himself and his then pregnant girlfriend.


Read more at Man Shoots at Intruders Turns Out it was a No-Knock Raid. Now He Faces the Death Penalty The Free Thought Project

Thoughts?

And please any authoritarians who want to comment about bowing to police under all circumstances you are excused from this thread. Everyone knows your angle

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So SWAT is so efficient they can't even make it to somebody's window at 5:30 in the morning without them getting a drop on them.

If the guy said that he shot people outside the window, the cops just twisted his language. He probably said yea, the guy was a little bit outside the window (climbing in), and the cops twist that to make it sound like he was shooting them on the street.

I wasn't there but apparently you were. Fill us in on some details. On the first page I posted:
"According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at “a number of persons” outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

You say the cops are lying so what is your version and where specifically were you?

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Being that this did take place in Texas and we have had several threads over the years regarding the right to protect yourself and Stand your ground, like the white man who shot a neighbor's robbers running away in the neighbor's front yard, who was not even charged.....

This action of the police and attorney general of charging him with first degree murder, seems excessive and not on par with all the other rulings in Texas regarding these same type instances, OTHER THAN this time it was the police intruding in to this man's house, through a window.....

seems wrong.

Is there more facts to this story that clarifies what is going on here, other than the op link that I missed?

Killing a LEO who is in the legal pursuit of his duties is always a more serious crime than say killing your neighbor's robber.

That's just the way it is.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

So SWAT is so efficient they can't even make it to somebody's window at 5:30 in the morning without them getting a drop on them.

If the guy said that he shot people outside the window, the cops just twisted his language. He probably said yea, the guy was a little bit outside the window (climbing in), and the cops twist that to make it sound like he was shooting them on the street.

I wasn't there but apparently you were. Fill us in on some details. On the first page I posted:
"According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at “a number of persons” outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

You say the cops are lying so what is your version and where specifically were you?

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

I'm sure that someone had the door covered

You're making too much of this.

IF the police identified themselves as per procedure, this guy is fucked.
IF they did not follow procedure and didn't identify themselves then he's in the clear.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wrong you claimed they did identify themselves it is YOUR job to prove your claim I do not have to prove a negative. As for the law we have all seen exactly what stand your ground and self defense mean in Texas over the last couple years. A man shot dead people not even on his property running away from him after robbing his neighbors house and guess what? NO CHARGES.

That's a lie. I didn't claim the cops identified themselves, unlike the lynch mob here I said wait for the facts. Now you're making shit up to support yourself.

Conflating it with an entirely different set of circumstances doesn't help.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Being that this did take place in Texas and we have had several threads over the years regarding the right to protect yourself and Stand your ground, like the white man who shot a neighbor's robbers running away in the neighbor's front yard, who was not even charged.....

This action of the police and attorney general of charging him with first degree murder, seems excessive and not on par with all the other rulings in Texas regarding these same type instances, OTHER THAN this time it was the police intruding in to this man's house, through a window.....

seems wrong.

Is there more facts to this story that clarifies what is going on here, other than the op link that I missed?

Killing a LEO who is in the legal pursuit of his duties is always a more serious crime than say killing your neighbor's robber.

That's just the way it is.

And justified if they broke into his house in the darkness and did not identify themselves as they did it.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

LOL. I'd love to see that one argued in court.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Being that this did take place in Texas and we have had several threads over the years regarding the right to protect yourself and Stand your ground, like the white man who shot a neighbor's robbers running away in the neighbor's front yard, who was not even charged.....

This action of the police and attorney general of charging him with first degree murder, seems excessive and not on par with all the other rulings in Texas regarding these same type instances, OTHER THAN this time it was the police intruding in to this man's house, through a window.....

seems wrong.

Is there more facts to this story that clarifies what is going on here, other than the op link that I missed?

Killing a LEO who is in the legal pursuit of his duties is always a more serious crime than say killing your neighbor's robber.

That's just the way it is.

And justified if they broke into his house in the darkness and did not identify themselves as they did it.

Which I've clearly said FOUR times in this thread now, starting on page 1.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So SWAT is so efficient they can't even make it to somebody's window at 5:30 in the morning without them getting a drop on them.

If the guy said that he shot people outside the window, the cops just twisted his language. He probably said yea, the guy was a little bit outside the window (climbing in), and the cops twist that to make it sound like he was shooting them on the street.

I wasn't there but apparently you were. Fill us in on some details. On the first page I posted:
"According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at “a number of persons” outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

You say the cops are lying so what is your version and where specifically were you?

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

I'm sure that someone had the door covered

You're making too much of this.

IF the police identified themselves as per procedure, this guy is fucked.
IF they did not follow procedure and didn't identify themselves then he's in the clear.

And if not recorded what is the chance the cops would admit they did not identify themselves?

 

[Iceweasel]

If they don't have a recording of his confession, it is his word against the cops of exactly what he meant by that. You can be climbing in a window and still be characterized as being outside.

Lots of ifs there but I doubt all four were coming through the window at the same time. But hey, they are all "associates" so what does it matter?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I wasn't there but apparently you were. Fill us in on some details. On the first page I posted:
"According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at “a number of persons” outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

You say the cops are lying so what is your version and where specifically were you?

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

I'm sure that someone had the door covered

You're making too much of this.

IF the police identified themselves as per procedure, this guy is fucked.
IF they did not follow procedure and didn't identify themselves then he's in the clear.

And if not recorded what is the chance the cops would admit they did not identify themselves?

Tough shit for him. Self defensive is an AFFIRMATIVE defense, meaning he would have to PROVE that the police did not identify themselves, not the other way around.

I'll go further, let's compare this to the situation where that retard shot the black girl who was banging on his door. He was rightfully convicted, the jury denied his claims of self defense, but he couldn't prove that he feared for his safety. Simply saying " I was skurred I was gonna die" isn't enough, self defense is an affirmative defense, meaning you have to PROVE you were scared for your life.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

I'm sure that someone had the door covered

You're making too much of this.

IF the police identified themselves as per procedure, this guy is fucked.
IF they did not follow procedure and didn't identify themselves then he's in the clear.

And if not recorded what is the chance the cops would admit they did not identify themselves?

Tough shit for him. Self defensive is an AFFIRMATIVE defense, meaning he would have to PROVE that the police did not identify themselves, not the other way around.

Stand your ground does not require any such thing. All he has to prove is that he feared for his and his families life as unknown men broke into his house, meaning the cops now have to prove THEY identified themselves in a manner he would have known who they were.

 

[Care4all]

Can you really get a no knock search warrant approved by a judge with just the word of someone calling in and giving a tip?

that seems wrong as well.....

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

I'm sure that someone had the door covered

You're making too much of this.

IF the police identified themselves as per procedure, this guy is fucked.
IF they did not follow procedure and didn't identify themselves then he's in the clear.

And if not recorded what is the chance the cops would admit they did not identify themselves?

Tough shit for him. Self defensive is an AFFIRMATIVE defense, meaning he would have to PROVE that the police did not identify themselves, not the other way around.

Stand your ground does not require any such thing. All he has to prove is that he feared for his and his families life as unknown men broke into his house, meaning the cops now have to prove THEY identified themselves in a manner he would have known who they were.

You are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT wrong. Stand your ground is an affirmative defense, it's essentially a self defense claim. You must PROVE that you had legitimate fear. Which means you must PROVE you didn't know it was the police.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

So SWAT is so efficient they can't even make it to somebody's window at 5:30 in the morning without them getting a drop on them.

If the guy said that he shot people outside the window, the cops just twisted his language. He probably said yea, the guy was a little bit outside the window (climbing in), and the cops twist that to make it sound like he was shooting them on the street.

I wasn't there but apparently you were. Fill us in on some details. On the first page I posted:
"According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at “a number of persons” outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

You say the cops are lying so what is your version and where specifically were you?

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

Yea, I had that question already several times about the door. Cops pouring in primarily through a window just appears so bizarre to begin with.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Can you really get a no knock search warrant approved by a judge with just the word of an someone calling in and giving a tip?

that seems wrong as well.....

no you can't. Something more went down here. My guess without reading much on this is that an undercover made a buy from someone considered dangerous and then wrong address was written on the warrant.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Being that this did take place in Texas and we have had several threads over the years regarding the right to protect yourself and Stand your ground, like the white man who shot a neighbor's robbers running away in the neighbor's front yard, who was not even charged.....

This action of the police and attorney general of charging him with first degree murder, seems excessive and not on par with all the other rulings in Texas regarding these same type instances, OTHER THAN this time it was the police intruding in to this man's house, through a window.....

seems wrong.

Is there more facts to this story that clarifies what is going on here, other than the op link that I missed?

Killing a LEO who is in the legal pursuit of his duties is always a more serious crime than say killing your neighbor's robber.

That's just the way it is.

That's all the more reason, cops should not act recklessly.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

I'm sure that someone had the door covered

You're making too much of this.

IF the police identified themselves as per procedure, this guy is fucked.
IF they did not follow procedure and didn't identify themselves then he's in the clear.

And if not recorded what is the chance the cops would admit they did not identify themselves?

Tough shit for him. Self defensive is an AFFIRMATIVE defense, meaning he would have to PROVE that the police did not identify themselves, not the other way around.

Stand your ground does not require any such thing. All he has to prove is that he feared for his and his families life as unknown men broke into his house, meaning the cops now have to prove THEY identified themselves in a manner he would have known who they were.

You are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT wrong. Stand your ground is an affirmative defense, it's essentially a self defense claim. You must PROVE that you had legitimate fear. Which means you must PROVE you didn't know it was the police.

You are wrong all one need prove is fear. If the cops claim they identified themselves and he says they did not they need to provide evidence they did in fact identify themselves.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

So SWAT is so efficient they can't even make it to somebody's window at 5:30 in the morning without them getting a drop on them.

If the guy said that he shot people outside the window, the cops just twisted his language. He probably said yea, the guy was a little bit outside the window (climbing in), and the cops twist that to make it sound like he was shooting them on the street.

I wasn't there but apparently you were. Fill us in on some details. On the first page I posted:
"According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at “a number of persons” outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

You say the cops are lying so what is your version and where specifically were you?

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

Yea, I had that question already several times about the door. Cops pouring in primarily through a window just appears so bizarre to begin with.

It doesn't even make sense from a tactical stand point, You send someone in from ALL entry points if you have the manpower.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

So SWAT is so efficient they can't even make it to somebody's window at 5:30 in the morning without them getting a drop on them.

If the guy said that he shot people outside the window, the cops just twisted his language. He probably said yea, the guy was a little bit outside the window (climbing in), and the cops twist that to make it sound like he was shooting them on the street.

I wasn't there but apparently you were. Fill us in on some details. On the first page I posted:
"According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at “a number of persons” outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

You say the cops are lying so what is your version and where specifically were you?

Cops were crawling through his window, in Texas stand your ground includes firing on people outside your home. The person in the window and his buddies outside waiting to do the same. The Cops failed to identify themselves, they are at fault not the homeowner.

If you are shooting at suspected home invaders climbing in your window, that makes the others outside "guilty" by association.

Yup if a group of people are outside your window while one is attempting to climb in they are all criminals unless they identified themselves. Further why didn't the dumb ass cops go through the door?

I'm sure that someone had the door covered

You're making too much of this.

IF the police identified themselves as per procedure, this guy is fucked.
IF they did not follow procedure and didn't identify themselves then he's in the clear.

They didn't identify themselves, because they never got fully inside. In raids, they routinely wait until they are inside.