Mall Killing and Other Mass Killings

[Annie]

as justification for 'it's all about guns'...

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=161637

Abstract:
Few events obtain the same instant worldwide news coverage as multiple victim public shootings. These crimes allow us to study the alternative methods used to kill a large number of people (e.g., shootings versus bombings), marginal deterrence and the severity of the crime, substitutability of penalties, private versus public methods of deterrence and incapacitation, and whether attacks produce copycats. Yet, economists have not studied this phenomenon. Our results are surprising and dramatic. While arrest or conviction rates and the death penalty reduce normal murder rates, our results find that the only policy factor to influence multiple victim public shootings is the passage of concealed handgun laws. We explain why public shootings are more sensitive than other violent crimes to concealed handguns, why the laws reduce both the number of shootings as well as their severity, and why other penalties like executions have differential deterrent effects depending upon the type of murder.

 

[eots]

its all about narcoleptic and psychotropic drugs without exception all the school shootings and this latest, rampage the mothers that kill their children ,abandon there infants to perish .every single time they are on anti depressants. Ritalin. its not like they don't admit it in all there fine print warnings but it is pretty useless to expect someone who has gone psychotic or suicidal to consult there physition................. even timothy Mcvae began taking antidepressants in the months prior to the bombing

 

[bush lover]

A few thousand killings a year with guns is the price we have to pay for our Second Amendment rights. No way around it. The liberal anti-gun freaks have to gete used to it.

 

[Diuretic]

Good source Kathianne, thanks for the link, duly bookmarked.

 

[Psychoblues]

Likewise, doc.

Good source Kathianne, thanks for the link, duly bookmarked.

We'll see how this turns out.

 

[Diuretic]

I'll read Lott's papers, I have to admit the statistical analysis is way over my head, but I'll read them.

 

[Abelian Sea]

our results find that the only policy factor to influence multiple victim public shootings is the passage of concealed handgun laws.

That makes sense. Someone stupidcrazy enough to do something like that isn't going to be disuaded by the possible consequences, so the only laws that would hinder them would be ones that prevent them from (easily) obtaining and transporting the means.

Of course the thing to note here is that it's the only policy factor they found influencial. I doubt that policy is anywhere near the biggest factor in these events.

its all about narcoleptic and psychotropic drugs without exception all the school shootings and this latest, rampage the mothers that kill their children ,abandon there infants to perish .every single time they are on anti depressants. Ritalin. its not like they don't admit it in all there fine print warnings but it is pretty useless to expect someone who has gone psychotic or suicidal to consult there physition................. even timothy Mcvae began taking antidepressants in the months prior to the bombing

That sounds more influencial on these guys than gun laws, but I very much doubt it's "all about" the drugs. I think the root cause is far more personal.

 

[hjmick]

I printed this paper out and have started to read the study and must say that so far it is fascinating.

So far, it seems to indicate that states without "shall issue laws" account for the "overwhelming majority of deaths and injuries" multpile victim public shootings. In other words, if the ability to carry a concealed weapon is denied, there is a better chance of being injured or killed when a shooting like the recent Omaha incident.

I'm sure that I will be commenting on this study more after finish reading (or perhaps as I read).

 

[ReillyT]

I printed this paper out and have started to read the study and must say that so far it is fascinating.

So far, it seems to indicate that states without "shall issue laws" account for the "overwhelming majority of deaths and injuries" multpile victim public shootings. In other words, if the ability to carry a concealed weapon is denied, there is a better chance of being injured or killed when a shooting like the recent Omaha incident.

I'm sure that I will be commenting on this study more after finish reading (or perhaps as I read).

That does make sense. The ability of others to carry concealed weapons could be a deterrent to this kind of atrocity. I can't see how the presence of concealed weapons could possibly make this kind of happenstance more likely.

I question what kind of study could be conducted with so few (relatively) instances of this kind of behaviour in a country where relatively few states allow carrying concealed weapons. Anyway, since I probably won't read it, if you could say a little something about sample sizes and what the article says about it, I would appreciate it.

Since most of these acts seem to end in suicide, I am surprised that the studies show that concealed weapons laws act as a deterrent (if the study does indicate that), but I have been surprised before.

 

[hjmick]

The paper was twenty pages of explanation, results, and conclusion with twenty six or so pages of mind numbing statistical tables which I would not be able to begin to explain.

The conclusion, which I find hard if not impossible to disagree with, essentially says that, even though the perpetrators of such crimes intend to die, the idea that they may not get to inflict as much carnage as they hope due to citizens with concealed weapons, makes some, not all, decide not to carry out their plans. It also says that when the mass public shootings do occur in shall issue states, the number of victims is significantly reduced.

The study is eight years old but I can't imagine the the conclusions have changed since it's initial relase.

I will say that carry laws are a factor I consider when looking at places I want to live. In the next two or three years I hope to be out of California and my intention is to live somewhere with more liberal gun laws.

 

[ReillyT]

Thanks hjmick.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So far, it seems to indicate that states without "shall issue laws" account for the "overwhelming majority of deaths and injuries" multpile victim public shootings. In other words, if the ability to carry a concealed weapon is denied, there is a better chance of being injured or killed when a shooting like the recent Omaha incident.

This is only common sense.
People that have the ability to effectively defend themselves will always be better off than those that do not.

 

[eots]

In Texas, Dr John Breeding, an Austin psychologist, has seen cases where some foster children were placed on as many as 17 drugs and says drugs are being used as chemical restraints in Texas. He wants all SSRIs and neuroleptic drugs banned from use on children “The SSRIs are extremely harmful and addictive; and can cause or exacerbate suicidal or homicidal tendencies; withdrawal is painful and dangerous,” Breeding warns.

Dr Ann Blake Tracy is the Director of the International Coalition for Drug Awareness, holds a doctorate in biological psychology, and is a specialist in the adverse reactions to SSRI medications. Tracy claims the whole hypothesis of SSRIs is "backwards." She says the drugs increase serotonin while decreasing the metabolism of serotonin, especially in the 7 to 10% of the population that studies have shown don't have the proper enzyme to metabolize SSRIs in the first place, according to the Aug 22, 2004 Desert Morning News.

Dr Tracy can recite hundreds of horror stories involving violence by people taking the same drugs that TeenScreen is marketing to more children.

She told the Morning News about, “the professor on Prozac who bit her mother to death; the Stanford graduate on Paxil who stabbed herself in the kitchen while her parents slept; the mother who bludgeoned her son and then drank a can of Drano; and the 12-year-old girl who strangled herself with a bungee cord she attached to a plant hanger on the wall."

"Most of these drugs are not approved for children, but it doesn't stop doctors from prescribing them," Tracy points out.

Turning People Into Psychotic Murderers


ICSPP - Drug Marketing SchemesHe wants all SSRIs and neuroleptic drugs banned from use on children “The SSRIs are ... and can cause or exacerbate suicidal or homicidal tendencies; ...
www.icspp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=116&Itemid=71 - 42k - Cached - Similar pages

 

[hjmick]

In Texas, Dr John Breeding, an Austin psychologist, has seen cases where some foster children were placed on as many as 17 drugs and says drugs are being used as chemical restraints in Texas. He wants all SSRIs and neuroleptic drugs banned from use on children “The SSRIs are extremely harmful and addictive; and can cause or exacerbate suicidal or homicidal tendencies; withdrawal is painful and dangerous,” Breeding warns.

Dr Ann Blake Tracy is the Director of the International Coalition for Drug Awareness, holds a doctorate in biological psychology, and is a specialist in the adverse reactions to SSRI medications. Tracy claims the whole hypothesis of SSRIs is "backwards." She says the drugs increase serotonin while decreasing the metabolism of serotonin, especially in the 7 to 10% of the population that studies have shown don't have the proper enzyme to metabolize SSRIs in the first place, according to the Aug 22, 2004 Desert Morning News.

Dr Tracy can recite hundreds of horror stories involving violence by people taking the same drugs that TeenScreen is marketing to more children.

She told the Morning News about, “the professor on Prozac who bit her mother to death; the Stanford graduate on Paxil who stabbed herself in the kitchen while her parents slept; the mother who bludgeoned her son and then drank a can of Drano; and the 12-year-old girl who strangled herself with a bungee cord she attached to a plant hanger on the wall."

"Most of these drugs are not approved for children, but it doesn't stop doctors from prescribing them," Tracy points out.

Turning People Into Psychotic Murderers


ICSPP - Drug Marketing SchemesHe wants all SSRIs and neuroleptic drugs banned from use on children “The SSRIs are ... and can cause or exacerbate suicidal or homicidal tendencies; ...
www.icspp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=116&Itemid=71 - 42k - Cached - Similar pages

And this has what to do with the study we are discussing regard CCW laws and their effect on mass victim public shootings?

 

[eots]

it is important to address the root cause of the school shooting phenomena ?don't you think?.....

 

[Shogun]

the kid was estranged from his family. I don't discount the validity of your case against pharmies but I wonder if the kid wasn't already having issues before then.



It's hard to accurately predict travesties like this. Ever read PKD's The Minority Report?

 

[hjmick]

the kid was estranged from his family. I don't discount the validity of your case against pharmies but I wonder if the kid wasn't already having issues before then.



It's hard to accurately predict travesties like this. Ever read PKD's The Minority Report?

He absolutely had problems, he had been a ward of the state for for years, released when he turned eighteen. The court documents indicate that the reasons he had been made a ward had nothing to do with the parents.

I haven't read Minority Report yet, but I can only imagine that it is better than the movie, which I didn't mind. It's on the list.

 

[hjmick]

it is important to address the root cause of the school shooting phenomena ?don't you think?.....

Certainly, but the topic in this thread is CCW laws and how they may or may not have an effect on MVPS. Not to mention that this most recent example was not a school shooting but a shopping mall shooting.

 

[eots]

Drugging of our ChildrenDocumentary about the insane amount of kids now on mind altering medication for being hyper like normal kids should be.
www.jimmyr.com/blog/Drugging_of_our_Children_240_2007.php - 20k - Cached - Similar pages

ever one should see this really take a hour and check it out sometime it is a excellent film and it will shock the hell out of you..without exception every one of this shootings is conected to adverse reactions to medications
sure these kids had problems or depression but it was the drugs that turned that to mass murder...i would be really intrestedto hear from anyone who veiws it

 

[Shogun]

He absolutely had problems, he had been a ward of the state for for years, released when he turned eighteen. The court documents indicate that the reasons he had been made a ward had nothing to do with the parents.

I haven't read Minority Report yet, but I can only imagine that it is better than the movie, which I didn't mind. It's on the list.

I suggest this one. Almost every story hit like a wave of profoundness.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Philip-K-Dick-Reader/dp/0806518561/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197064263&sr=1-2[/ame]


yea, the movie totally sucked. Even Blade Runner, as great as it was, hardly reflected "do androids dream of electric sheep?" You'll especially enjoy "The Chromium Fence". I've posted that short story on here before but the link was to the free republic so I doubt if too many from my side of the spectrum read it.

anyway, enjoy. Let me know what you think after you wrangle some PKD.