Make College Free! (For Americans)

[Luddly Neddite]

Tell that to the French. People there don't have to pay for college.

Oh?

So the professors and administrators all donate their time? Text book authors and publishers ask for no compensation?

The government picks up the tab. Just as they do with health care. And there is a limit as to what administrators and college professors are paid. Part of their compensation comes from living in a more fair sociery. Aparently there, politicians think their job is to look after the people. What politicians do here mostly is shaking babies and kissing hands.

Read a little history. After WWII, other countries made the decision to invest in their own country and their own people. The US decided to invest in the military.

The result is that we're the policemen to the world. We pay very high taxes for our military and to enrich the 1% but we don't take care of our own country, our own people.

Money-Driven Medicine

Read the book, watch the documentary.

 

[hellraiser]

Whatever the Germans are doing, they're doing it better than us. Also, I have better things to do than to go digging around on the internet to verify your spurious statements. But I would doubt of the percentage of the German population who goes to college is any different from the percentage of the U.S. population that does. In fact, I would say that the U.S. probably does far worse. Next, the people in the U.S. are made to attend highschool. There is no mandate that they graduate.

What they are doing is culling the herd.

Americans attend secondary education at about 5 times the rate that Germans do.

No. What they're doing is restricting higher education to the wealthy. But many of the greatest thinkers who ever existed came from humble beginnings. Take Benjamin Franklin. At one time, he was an indentured servant. Also, what are you talking about with "secondary school." Some trade school they attend because they couldn't afford to go to college?

 

[Boss]

I'm not talking about who DOES pay for it. I'm talking about who DOESN'T pay for it. The students. Also, look at the free health care they have in those countries. Nobody becomes homeless because they can't afford medical treatment.

No... what happens to them is they DIE waiting for health care. The same thing is going to start happening here.

So... You think that when people no longer have to pay for things they appreciate them more and don't take them for granted? I would argue the opposite is true.

 

[the_human_being]

A whole lot of us got our education this way:

 

[Unkotare]

No such thing as "free college," dope.

Tell that to the French. People there don't have to pay for college.

Oh, yes they do.

 

[hellraiser]

I'm not talking about who DOES pay for it. I'm talking about who DOESN'T pay for it. The students. Also, look at the free health care they have in those countries. Nobody becomes homeless because they can't afford medical treatment.

No... what happens to them is they DIE waiting for health care. The same thing is going to start happening here.

So... You think that when people no longer have to pay for things they appreciate them more and don't take them for granted? I would argue the opposite is true.

In countries where they have free health care, I would be willing to bet that people are treated better than there are through our Veterans Administration. Also, many people with health insurance die because their insurance provider digs up some excuse to deny their coverage. Next, taking something for granted is a small thing. Becoming homeless because you can't afford to pay for your medical treatment is a BIG thing. I would say that one couple who becomes homeless because they can't afford to pay for their medical treatment is equal to approximately 316,443 people who take free medical coverage for granted. That is "if" they take it for granted.

 

[hellraiser]

A whole lot of us got our education this way:

View attachment 72066

Oh. I see. Just because you were a sucker, you think that everybody else should be suckers too.

 

[hellraiser]

No such thing as "free college," dope.

Tell that to the French. People there don't have to pay for college.

Oh, yes they do.

I'm not an expert on the topic. But the subject came up in the documentary "Sicko." They said that in France, people don't have to pay for college. Just like they don't have to pay for medical treatment. If the thing about medical treatment is true, and it is, then chances are that the thing about what they have to pay to go to college is true too.

 

[the_human_being]

A whole lot of us got our education this way:

View attachment 72066

Oh. I see. Just because you were a sucker, you think that everybody else should be suckers too.

No. I say if one really wants a college education he/she can certainly obtain one without sitting on his ass and waiting on someone else to give him one. I wasn't a sucker either. I was drafted into military service. Military service is an honorable thing in spite of your own opinion of it.

 

[Unkotare]

[

The government picks up the tab. Just as they do with health care. And there is a limit as to what administrators and college professors are paid. Part of their compensation comes from living in a more fair sociery. Aparently there, politicians think their job is to look after the people. What politicians do here mostly is shaking babies and kissing hands.

So the working people of France pay for it.

Hence college isn't "free." You simply want to leach off of others. You're greedy and want things without having to pay for them.

A Bernie supporter, IOW.


Requirements to go to University in Germany;

- high school diploma (GPA > 3.0)

- AP Calculus AB or BC

- AP Biology or AP Chemistry or two half AP Physics C

- one of AP French / Spanish / Latin / German / English Literature / English Language and Composition

- one other AP

Hochschulkompass.de: Studying in Germany - Prerequisites for studying - Citizenship

About 11% of Germans are accepted.

I'm not talking about who DOES pay for it. I'm talking about who DOESN'T pay for it. The students. Also, look at the free health care they have in those countries. Nobody becomes homeless because they can't afford medical treatment. But a LOT of people in the U.S. do. Also, one time across the street from where I live, some tea bagger fuckfaces were holding a demonstration against free health care. At the end of the line and sitting on the back bumper of an open SUV, there were a couple of people who had a sign that supported free health care.

Not being afraid of any stench, I went to talk to them. They used to work for the insurance industry. Their job used to be to dig up reasons for insurance companies to deny coverage to those who had insurance. Health care, college education, it's all pretty much the same thing.

There is also no such thing as free health care, dope.

 

[Unkotare]

No such thing as "free college," dope.

Tell that to the French. People there don't have to pay for college.

Oh, yes they do.

I'm not an expert on the topic. But the subject came up in the documentary "Sicko." They said that in France, people don't have to pay for college. Just like they don't have to pay for medical treatment. If the thing about medical treatment is true, and it is, then chances are that the thing about what they have to pay to go to college is true too.

Maybe if you had gone to school you would understand why it can't be "free."

 

[Unkotare]

No such thing as "free college," dope.

No such thing as free K-12 education either, but the expense is more than returned to our economy.

And how do our public k-12 schools compare to our universities?

 

[Boss]

In countries where they have free health care, I would be willing to bet that people are treated better than there are through our Veterans Administration. Also, many people with health insurance die because their insurance provider digs up some excuse to deny their coverage. Next, taking something for granted is a small thing. Becoming homeless because you can't afford to pay for your medical treatment is a BIG thing. I would say that one couple who becomes homeless because they can't afford to pay for their medical treatment is equal to approximately 316,443 people who take free medical coverage for granted. That is "if" they take it for granted.

Well you would lose the bet because they aren't. That's not to say the VA has the greatest health care man has ever seen. The VA is actually the system you want for everyone, which is a government-funded system that is sub par to it's private sector counterpart.

No one becomes homeless because they can't afford health care in America. Every state in America has indigent care laws which prohibit hospitals from denying treatment due to inability to pay. Every county in America has a government-funded health clinic with pricing established according to income. Every disabled person, poor person with children or retired person has Medicare and Medicaid who pays for their medical care.

Meanwhile, in Canada... one of those "other countries" often cited in your pipe dream of free government health care... people wait for a routine MRI an average of 6-9 months as opposed to a couple of weeks in the US (prior to Obamacare). Open heart surgery-- 3-5 years as opposed to weeks (at best) in the US. If you need a kidney or organ transplant in Canada... better get your will in order.

What you will ultimately get with "single payer" or government-paid health care is rationing of health care. There is no other way to do it. So you are going to have people who are told they can't have their hip replacement or heart stints, it's not practical because of their age. And you think insurance companies are a hassle to deal with now... wait until it's a federal government bureaucrat on the other end of the line. When you are being mistreated by a private sector insurance company, you have the recourse of your state insurance regulator and attorney general... when it's the government, you're shit out of luck. You take what you get.

 

[hellraiser]

If college were free here like it is in some other countries, I would have probably went. Instead, I looked at the possibility of affording a college education about the same as the possibility that I might ever fly to the moon. Most people believe that a college education is good for society in general. If that is the case, wouldn't it be best to improve society in general? Also, as things are, those who aren't wealthy have to go into a deep onerous debt to get a college education. But having a college education is no guarantee of finding a job. After all, from what I hear, China is awash with hordes of unemployed engineers. So anybody going into debt to get a college education here would be taking quite a risk. People here shouldn't have to take such a risk. Especially when the outcome could very likely be inproving society in general.

If college is "free," then retards will go to college and the leftists will demand standards be lowered because it isn't fair that that the dumb people don't succeed. Soon college will be utterly worthless.

BTW, very few in Europe are allowed to attend college, free or not.

If you go to college, you should expect to adhere to a certain academic level. If you don't do so, you go. End of story. There would be no lowering of standards. Also, in terms of the yearly value of exports, Germany kicks our country's ass all to hell. I doubt if they do so by not allowing people to go to college. Another thing is that I think it was in the documentary "Sicko" that I found out that people in France don't have to pay for college. There was no mention of anybody not being allowed to go to college. I would be shocked of any country disallowed anybody to go to college who wanted to.

The French system has some MAJOR drawbacks. First of all, students start making career decisions on education at about age 15 and it's not completely up to the individual. Their principal has the final say in which area they will study. There there are a battery of exams that must be passed and you can't change courses without a lot of obstacles and problems. So you see, your FREEDOMS are limited in the French system.

Additionally, the French have a "higher echelon" of education similar to our Ivy League. (grandes écoles) These are extremely difficult to get into and not entirely free. Acceptance rates are under 10% and virtually no one who isn't wealthy can go.. but here is the kicker... 84% of the top executive jobs in France are held by these graduates-- contrast with about 10% of the exec jobs in the US by Ivy League grads. So your chances of success in France are limited unless you get into the higher echelon academies.

And this is almost always the case with liberal Utopian pie-in-the-sky genuflection toward "other countries" ...you fail to realize they don't have the FREEDOM we have in America. Their choices are limited and restricted in every possible way. So it all boils down to whether you want an authoritarian central government dictating your life, what you will be, where you will go, what you will do... OR... do you want FREEDOM to make those decisions on your own?

"Freedom" is a word that is used to quell the gullible. I am reminded of a lyric from a Kansas song. "Your freedoms a joke. You don't know the difference as you put on the yoke." Next, why in the hell would there need to be the most intelligent in some executive position. Their talents would be put to better use in scientific reaserch or some such thing. As to what I want, if only this forum would allow me to tell you. But my "freedom" to do so here is just as limited as any of our other "freedoms" that you may care to mention.

 

[BULLDOG]

No such thing as "free college," dope.

No such thing as free K-12 education either, but the expense is more than returned to our economy.

And how do our public k-12 schools compare to our universities?

Other than the level of education received, and their means of funding, how do they not compare? A better educated society is a better society.

 

[Unkotare]

No such thing as "free college," dope.

No such thing as free K-12 education either, but the expense is more than returned to our economy.

And how do our public k-12 schools compare to our universities?

Other than the level of education received, and their means of funding, how do they not compare? .

Our universities are by far the best in the world. Our k-12 schools are not.

 

[Unkotare]

If college were free here like it is in some other countries, I would have probably went. Instead, I looked at the possibility of affording a college education about the same as the possibility that I might ever fly to the moon. Most people believe that a college education is good for society in general. If that is the case, wouldn't it be best to improve society in general? Also, as things are, those who aren't wealthy have to go into a deep onerous debt to get a college education. But having a college education is no guarantee of finding a job. After all, from what I hear, China is awash with hordes of unemployed engineers. So anybody going into debt to get a college education here would be taking quite a risk. People here shouldn't have to take such a risk. Especially when the outcome could very likely be inproving society in general.

If college is "free," then retards will go to college and the leftists will demand standards be lowered because it isn't fair that that the dumb people don't succeed. Soon college will be utterly worthless.

BTW, very few in Europe are allowed to attend college, free or not.

If you go to college, you should expect to adhere to a certain academic level. If you don't do so, you go. End of story. There would be no lowering of standards. Also, in terms of the yearly value of exports, Germany kicks our country's ass all to hell. I doubt if they do so by not allowing people to go to college. Another thing is that I think it was in the documentary "Sicko" that I found out that people in France don't have to pay for college. There was no mention of anybody not being allowed to go to college. I would be shocked of any country disallowed anybody to go to college who wanted to.

The French system has some MAJOR drawbacks. First of all, students start making career decisions on education at about age 15 and it's not completely up to the individual. Their principal has the final say in which area they will study. There there are a battery of exams that must be passed and you can't change courses without a lot of obstacles and problems. So you see, your FREEDOMS are limited in the French system.

Additionally, the French have a "higher echelon" of education similar to our Ivy League. (grandes écoles) These are extremely difficult to get into and not entirely free. Acceptance rates are under 10% and virtually no one who isn't wealthy can go.. but here is the kicker... 84% of the top executive jobs in France are held by these graduates-- contrast with about 10% of the exec jobs in the US by Ivy League grads. So your chances of success in France are limited unless you get into the higher echelon academies.

And this is almost always the case with liberal Utopian pie-in-the-sky genuflection toward "other countries" ...you fail to realize they don't have the FREEDOM we have in America. Their choices are limited and restricted in every possible way. So it all boils down to whether you want an authoritarian central government dictating your life, what you will be, where you will go, what you will do... OR... do you want FREEDOM to make those decisions on your own?

"Freedom" is a word that is used to quell the gullible. I am reminded of a lyric from a Kansas song. "Your freedoms a joke. You don't know the difference as you put on the yoke." Next, why in the hell would there need to be the most intelligent in some executive position. Their talents would be put to better use in scientific reaserch or some such thing. As to what I want, if only this forum would allow me to tell you. But my "freedom" to do so here is just as limited as any of our other "freedoms" that you may care to mention.

Stop being a pussy and say what you want to say.

 

[BULLDOG]

If college were free here like it is in some other countries, I would have probably went. Instead, I looked at the possibility of affording a college education about the same as the possibility that I might ever fly to the moon. Most people believe that a college education is good for society in general. If that is the case, wouldn't it be best to improve society in general? Also, as things are, those who aren't wealthy have to go into a deep onerous debt to get a college education. But having a college education is no guarantee of finding a job. After all, from what I hear, China is awash with hordes of unemployed engineers. So anybody going into debt to get a college education here would be taking quite a risk. People here shouldn't have to take such a risk. Especially when the outcome could very likely be inproving society in general.

If college is "free," then retards will go to college and the leftists will demand standards be lowered because it isn't fair that that the dumb people don't succeed. Soon college will be utterly worthless.

BTW, very few in Europe are allowed to attend college, free or not.

If you go to college, you should expect to adhere to a certain academic level. If you don't do so, you go. End of story. There would be no lowering of standards. Also, in terms of the yearly value of exports, Germany kicks our country's ass all to hell. I doubt if they do so by not allowing people to go to college. Another thing is that I think it was in the documentary "Sicko" that I found out that people in France don't have to pay for college. There was no mention of anybody not being allowed to go to college. I would be shocked of any country disallowed anybody to go to college who wanted to.

The French system has some MAJOR drawbacks. First of all, students start making career decisions on education at about age 15 and it's not completely up to the individual. Their principal has the final say in which area they will study. There there are a battery of exams that must be passed and you can't change courses without a lot of obstacles and problems. So you see, your FREEDOMS are limited in the French system.

Additionally, the French have a "higher echelon" of education similar to our Ivy League. (grandes écoles) These are extremely difficult to get into and not entirely free. Acceptance rates are under 10% and virtually no one who isn't wealthy can go.. but here is the kicker... 84% of the top executive jobs in France are held by these graduates-- contrast with about 10% of the exec jobs in the US by Ivy League grads. So your chances of success in France are limited unless you get into the higher echelon academies.

And this is almost always the case with liberal Utopian pie-in-the-sky genuflection toward "other countries" ...you fail to realize they don't have the FREEDOM we have in America. Their choices are limited and restricted in every possible way. So it all boils down to whether you want an authoritarian central government dictating your life, what you will be, where you will go, what you will do... OR... do you want FREEDOM to make those decisions on your own?

"Freedom" is a word that is used to quell the gullible. I am reminded of a lyric from a Kansas song. "Your freedoms a joke. You don't know the difference as you put on the yoke." Next, why in the hell would there need to be the most intelligent in some executive position. Their talents would be put to better use in scientific reaserch or some such thing. As to what I want, if only this forum would allow me to tell you. But my "freedom" to do so here is just as limited as any of our other "freedoms" that you may care to mention.

Exactly how is your freedom to tell what you want being limited? Anything short of bestiality, and advocating murder is pretty much open to discussion.

 

[BULLDOG]

No such thing as "free college," dope.

No such thing as free K-12 education either, but the expense is more than returned to our economy.

And how do our public k-12 schools compare to our universities?

Other than the level of education received, and their means of funding, how do they not compare? .

Our universities are by far the best in the world. Our k-12 schools are not.

Some are, and some aren't. You haven't heard about all the for profit college scams lately?

 

[hellraiser]

In countries where they have free health care, I would be willing to bet that people are treated better than there are through our Veterans Administration. Also, many people with health insurance die because their insurance provider digs up some excuse to deny their coverage. Next, taking something for granted is a small thing. Becoming homeless because you can't afford to pay for your medical treatment is a BIG thing. I would say that one couple who becomes homeless because they can't afford to pay for their medical treatment is equal to approximately 316,443 people who take free medical coverage for granted. That is "if" they take it for granted.

Well you would lose the bet because they aren't. That's not to say the VA has the greatest health care man has ever seen. The VA is actually the system you want for everyone, which is a government-funded system that is sub par to it's private sector counterpart.

No one becomes homeless because they can't afford health care in America. Every state in America has indigent care laws which prohibit hospitals from denying treatment due to inability to pay. Every county in America has a government-funded health clinic with pricing established according to income. Every disabled person, poor person with children or retired person has Medicare and Medicaid who pays for their medical care.

Meanwhile, in Canada... one of those "other countries" often cited in your pipe dream of free government health care... people wait for a routine MRI an average of 6-9 months as opposed to a couple of weeks in the US (prior to Obamacare). Open heart surgery-- 3-5 years as opposed to weeks (at best) in the US. If you need a kidney or organ transplant in Canada... better get your will in order.

What you will ultimately get with "single payer" or government-paid health care is rationing of health care. There is no other way to do it. So you are going to have people who are told they can't have their hip replacement or heart stints, it's not practical because of their age. And you think insurance companies are a hassle to deal with now... wait until it's a federal government bureaucrat on the other end of the line. When you are being mistreated by a private sector insurance company, you have the recourse of your state insurance regulator and attorney general... when it's the government, you're shit out of luck. You take what you get.

You are so full of shit your eyes are brown. I see that I am talking to the medical version of a human caused global warming denier. Where is flacern. He should be getting in on some of this horseshit. Have you ever SEEN the documentary "Sicko?" In it they went with a rid along with a DOCTOR who was making house calls. The V.A. doesn't do that. Also, in that documentary they SHOWED people who became homeless because they couldn't afford their medical bills.

Next, I can't say how long people in Canada have to wait for an MRI or kidney transplant. But considering some of your other lies, I would be willing to bet that it isn't as dire as you make out. Next, if you can pay to get anything done in a timely manner here in the U.S. It could still be done in a timely manner. No matter where the paycheck comes from. You can't dismiss "timliness" down to greed. It could make a little difference, but not a major one. Also, if college was for free, there would be more qualified people around to do whatever.

Next, bureaucrat who works for the government is ultimately answerable to the voters. Because they are part of the government. Those in the private sector aren't answerable to anybody. Of course, this isn't always the case. Because you can't sue anybody in the V.A. for malpractice. Also, one of the major problems with the costs of our current medical system is that most of the money for treatment goes towards supporting the bureaucracy.