Make America Great Again ?

[Hossfly]

Obama did promise change.

Change has been happening for a long time, in fact it's never really stayed still. America's demise is due, mostly, to the rise of other countries who have stop the US going in and causing problems for their own benefits. You have to live with that, you have to put things in place to make things better, the US isn't doing that, everyone's fighting it out among themselves for the power, treating foreign countries like military targets, and forgetting that these countries can take US jobs because the US doesn't have the workforce that has the right attributes for what is required.

Obama promised change, what else was there going to be? I mean, even Trump is saying Dubya was useless and people agree with him, from his own party.

America's demise is due to the Democrat Party, period.

lol you republican obama haters make me laugh

View attachment 64173

btw I too am an army vet and refuse to see my brothers die over republican BS wars

Clinton was in office for 8 years prior to 9/11. The planning took months and even years. Therefore it's a Republican war. Got it!

 

[rightwinger]

Why does. trump hate America?

He doesn't think we are very great

 

[eddiew]

Change has been happening for a long time, in fact it's never really stayed still. America's demise is due, mostly, to the rise of other countries who have stop the US going in and causing problems for their own benefits. You have to live with that, you have to put things in place to make things better, the US isn't doing that, everyone's fighting it out among themselves for the power, treating foreign countries like military targets, and forgetting that these countries can take US jobs because the US doesn't have the workforce that has the right attributes for what is required.

Obama promised change, what else was there going to be? I mean, even Trump is saying Dubya was useless and people agree with him, from his own party.

America's demise is due to the Democrat Party, period.

lol you republican obama haters make me laugh

View attachment 64173

btw I too am an army vet and refuse to see my brothers die over republican BS wars

Clinton was in office for 8 years prior to 9/11. The planning took months and even years. Therefore it's a Republican war. Got it!

why did bush hide all those PDB's??....even trump knows gwb was complicit

 

[winterfeld]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

Lets see.
the first 240 years
then the next 60 years of Jim Crow
then the 60s rolled around, Its now 2016 so that would be 56 more years
so,, 356 years?

As I said slavery began before America fully incorporated in 1776.

so the colonists got here in 1536? is that what you are trying to make us believe?
or, is it possible that you just made up numbers to try and make something look like it isnt and basically are blowing smoke out your ass while at the same time showing your total lack of historical knowledge?

As I said, I wasn't referring to the incorporation of America in 1776, I was referring to when the first slave ships came over, which was in the mid to late 1500's. Its all a part of the America experience for some. Again, to be clear America can be great but we'd have to recognize, own and completely eradicate bigotry, prejudice and racism as a starting point.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

Lets see.
the first 240 years
then the next 60 years of Jim Crow
then the 60s rolled around, Its now 2016 so that would be 56 more years
so,, 356 years?

As I said slavery began before America fully incorporated in 1776.

so the colonists got here in 1536? is that what you are trying to make us believe?
or, is it possible that you just made up numbers to try and make something look like it isnt and basically are blowing smoke out your ass while at the same time showing your total lack of historical knowledge?

As I said, I wasn't referring to the incorporation of America in 1776, I was referring to when the first slave ships came over, which was in the mid to late 1500's. Its all a part of the America experience for some. Again, to be clear America can be great but we'd have to recognize, own and completely eradicate bigotry, prejudice and racism as a starting point.

1607 was when the first slaves got to Jamestown.
but, since the United States was not the United States at that time, and it was still considered under the control of the British empire, that is not on us. Its on the British.

 

[rightwinger]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

Lets see.
the first 240 years
then the next 60 years of Jim Crow
then the 60s rolled around, Its now 2016 so that would be 56 more years
so,, 356 years?

As I said slavery began before America fully incorporated in 1776.

so the colonists got here in 1536? is that what you are trying to make us believe?
or, is it possible that you just made up numbers to try and make something look like it isnt and basically are blowing smoke out your ass while at the same time showing your total lack of historical knowledge?

As I said, I wasn't referring to the incorporation of America in 1776, I was referring to when the first slave ships came over, which was in the mid to late 1500's. Its all a part of the America experience for some. Again, to be clear America can be great but we'd have to recognize, own and completely eradicate bigotry, prejudice and racism as a starting point.

1607 was when the first slaves got to Jamestown.
but, since the United States was not the United States at that time, and it was still considered under the control of the British empire, that is not on us. Its on the British.

That is true but we had a chance to set things straight when we started that all men are created equal stuff

 

[eddiew]

Change has been happening for a long time, in fact it's never really stayed still. America's demise is due, mostly, to the rise of other countries who have stop the US going in and causing problems for their own benefits. You have to live with that, you have to put things in place to make things better, the US isn't doing that, everyone's fighting it out among themselves for the power, treating foreign countries like military targets, and forgetting that these countries can take US jobs because the US doesn't have the workforce that has the right attributes for what is required.

Obama promised change, what else was there going to be? I mean, even Trump is saying Dubya was useless and people agree with him, from his own party.

America's demise is due to the Democrat Party, period.

lol you republican obama haters make me laugh

View attachment 64173

btw I too am an army vet and refuse to see my brothers die over republican BS wars

Clinton was in office for 8 years prior to 9/11. The planning took months and even years. Therefore it's a Republican war. Got it!

gwb had 8 months to stop the greatest threat to america as was told to the moron gwb by bill clinton
he did zilch ,,,,......watch this drive

 

[bripat9643]

America's demise is due to the Democrat Party, period.

lol you republican obama haters make me laugh

View attachment 64173

btw I too am an army vet and refuse to see my brothers die over republican BS wars

Clinton was in office for 8 years prior to 9/11. The planning took months and even years. Therefore it's a Republican war. Got it!

gwb had 8 months to stop the greatest threat to america as was told to the moron gwb by bill clinton
he did zilch ,,,,......watch this drive

Clinton had 8 years. What did he do?

 

[eddiew]

lol you republican obama haters make me laugh

View attachment 64173

btw I too am an army vet and refuse to see my brothers die over republican BS wars

Clinton was in office for 8 years prior to 9/11. The planning took months and even years. Therefore it's a Republican war. Got it!

gwb had 8 months to stop the greatest threat to america as was told to the moron gwb by bill clinton
he did zilch ,,,,......watch this drive

Clinton had 8 years. What did he do?

he left enough money over so the moron could waste it and he didn't start a full scale bs war

 

[sealybobo]

View attachment 64173

btw I too am an army vet and refuse to see my brothers die over republican BS wars

Clinton was in office for 8 years prior to 9/11. The planning took months and even years. Therefore it's a Republican war. Got it!

gwb had 8 months to stop the greatest threat to america as was told to the moron gwb by bill clinton
he did zilch ,,,,......watch this drive

Clinton had 8 years. What did he do?

he left enough money over so the moron could waste it and he didn't start a full scale bs war

When was America great? In the 50s and 60s corporations had a social contract with Americans. Job security, pensions, good pay, affordable healthcare. Then Ayn Rand and Jack Walsh of GE changed everything. Greed ruined America. We were great when American corporations cared more about workers but now it's about shareholders. GE layed off hundreds of thousands of workers. Lots of corporations did.

This greed also led to extreme CEO pay, wallstreet collapse Enron the wealth gap. Etc. And Republicans say class warfare doesn't exist. America has been taken over by the greedy rich who ID they were honest would admit they actually like what's wrong with America. Works for them

 

[bripat9643]

Lets see.
the first 240 years
then the next 60 years of Jim Crow
then the 60s rolled around, Its now 2016 so that would be 56 more years
so,, 356 years?

As I said slavery began before America fully incorporated in 1776.

so the colonists got here in 1536? is that what you are trying to make us believe?
or, is it possible that you just made up numbers to try and make something look like it isnt and basically are blowing smoke out your ass while at the same time showing your total lack of historical knowledge?

As I said, I wasn't referring to the incorporation of America in 1776, I was referring to when the first slave ships came over, which was in the mid to late 1500's. Its all a part of the America experience for some. Again, to be clear America can be great but we'd have to recognize, own and completely eradicate bigotry, prejudice and racism as a starting point.

1607 was when the first slaves got to Jamestown.
but, since the United States was not the United States at that time, and it was still considered under the control of the British empire, that is not on us. Its on the British.

That is true but we had a chance to set things straight when we started that all men are created equal stuff

So did the Roman Empire. So what?

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 64173

btw I too am an army vet and refuse to see my brothers die over republican BS wars

Clinton was in office for 8 years prior to 9/11. The planning took months and even years. Therefore it's a Republican war. Got it!

gwb had 8 months to stop the greatest threat to america as was told to the moron gwb by bill clinton
he did zilch ,,,,......watch this drive

Clinton had 8 years. What did he do?

he left enough money over so the moron could waste it and he didn't start a full scale bs war

Aside from being a total fiction, what does that have to do with terrorism?

 

[sealybobo]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

We were great before Ayn Rand, Jack Walsh, Milton Freeman, the Rich and Corporations ruined America because of their greed.

CEOs have a responsibility to maximize profits for shareholders. But companies have not always seen themselves as serving stockholders first. The big change began with Milton Friedman when he wrote “There is only one social responsibility of business to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits.” Friedman argued that corporations were taking on too many “social responsibilities": providing jobs, helping to fight pollution and reducing discrimination in society. In their eyes, the model was inefficient and unfair to shareholders. There was an obsession with shareholder value maximization. The approach indeed made Wall Street happy. The stock market soared twelvefold in the '80s and '90s.

But, a fast way to fast profits is cutting jobs and wages and so the “corporate social contract” began to erode in the 1980s. This social contract between employer and employee basically said, ‘If you come to work every day, and you work hard, and you give the corporation a measure of loyalty, we in turn will take care of you, often for the rest of your life, by extending healthcare and generous pensions to retirees. All that changed. Real wages flattened. Job security became more tenuous and pensions and healthcare benefits eroded. This idea of maximizing shareholder value is an important reason why all that happened.


A relevant case study is General Electric in the 1980s, run by Jack Welch. Back in the 1950s, GE like many companies at the time put workers over shareholders. Under Welch, the firm downsized more than 100,000 workers in five years. GE’s actions spawned a lot more similar type of aggressive cost restructuring across industrial America in the late '80s and through the 1990s. Fair or not, Welch became the face of maximizing shareholder value. Other executives followed suit. Over the years, these aggressive shareholders and practices took on different names: corporate raiders, leveraged buyouts, activist investors. But corporations' efforts to maximize profits at all cost also led directly to scandals including Enron, the BP oil spill and the 2007-08 financial crisis.


How shareholders jumped to first in line for profits

 

[bendog]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

Fer me 1860 was 'bout the high point. jus sayin

 

[SAYIT]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

We were great before Ayn Rand, Jack Walsh, Milton Freeman, the Rich and Corporations ruined America because of their greed.

CEOs have a responsibility to maximize profits for shareholders. But companies have not always seen themselves as serving stockholders first. The big change began with Milton Friedman when he wrote “There is only one social responsibility of business to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits.” Friedman argued that corporations were taking on too many “social responsibilities": providing jobs, helping to fight pollution and reducing discrimination in society. In their eyes, the model was inefficient and unfair to shareholders. There was an obsession with shareholder value maximization. The approach indeed made Wall Street happy. The stock market soared twelvefold in the '80s and '90s.

But, a fast way to fast profits is cutting jobs and wages and so the “corporate social contract” began to erode in the 1980s. This social contract between employer and employee basically said, ‘If you come to work every day, and you work hard, and you give the corporation a measure of loyalty, we in turn will take care of you, often for the rest of your life, by extending healthcare and generous pensions to retirees. All that changed. Real wages flattened. Job security became more tenuous and pensions and healthcare benefits eroded. This idea of maximizing shareholder value is an important reason why all that happened.


A relevant case study is General Electric in the 1980s, run by Jack Welch. Back in the 1950s, GE like many companies at the time put workers over shareholders. Under Welch, the firm downsized more than 100,000 workers in five years. GE’s actions spawned a lot more similar type of aggressive cost restructuring across industrial America in the late '80s and through the 1990s. Fair or not, Welch became the face of maximizing shareholder value. Other executives followed suit. Over the years, these aggressive shareholders and practices took on different names: corporate raiders, leveraged buyouts, activist investors. But corporations' efforts to maximize profits at all cost also led directly to scandals including Enron, the BP oil spill and the 2007-08 financial crisis.


How shareholders jumped to first in line for profits

So who, exactly, are these evil shareholders?

Well, contrary to popular belief, it is America's institutional investors who plow the savings - often retirement savings - of many millions of Americans (and foreigners) into American (and foreign) companies in a never-ending effort to maximize their value and their client's faith in the fiduciary process.

Yes, it is the job of these fiduciaries to put the interest of their client's first and to insure that they often demand (and receive) director seats on the boards of our most stable and profitable corporations in exchange for large investments ... investments that allow the companies to not only continue operating profitably, but to expand and create more JOBS for Americans and more WEALTH for the shareholders.

In other words, it is the moms and pops whose 401Ks and IRAs not only provide for the individual's retirement but also for America's (and American's) economic health.

I understand not everyone (half of American households do not own stock) invests in our economy or our future but half of American households do. It is those who do not who whine most loudly (and most ignorantly) about greedy corporations that "ruined America."

 

[sealybobo]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

We were great before Ayn Rand, Jack Walsh, Milton Freeman, the Rich and Corporations ruined America because of their greed.

CEOs have a responsibility to maximize profits for shareholders. But companies have not always seen themselves as serving stockholders first. The big change began with Milton Friedman when he wrote “There is only one social responsibility of business to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits.” Friedman argued that corporations were taking on too many “social responsibilities": providing jobs, helping to fight pollution and reducing discrimination in society. In their eyes, the model was inefficient and unfair to shareholders. There was an obsession with shareholder value maximization. The approach indeed made Wall Street happy. The stock market soared twelvefold in the '80s and '90s.

But, a fast way to fast profits is cutting jobs and wages and so the “corporate social contract” began to erode in the 1980s. This social contract between employer and employee basically said, ‘If you come to work every day, and you work hard, and you give the corporation a measure of loyalty, we in turn will take care of you, often for the rest of your life, by extending healthcare and generous pensions to retirees. All that changed. Real wages flattened. Job security became more tenuous and pensions and healthcare benefits eroded. This idea of maximizing shareholder value is an important reason why all that happened.


A relevant case study is General Electric in the 1980s, run by Jack Welch. Back in the 1950s, GE like many companies at the time put workers over shareholders. Under Welch, the firm downsized more than 100,000 workers in five years. GE’s actions spawned a lot more similar type of aggressive cost restructuring across industrial America in the late '80s and through the 1990s. Fair or not, Welch became the face of maximizing shareholder value. Other executives followed suit. Over the years, these aggressive shareholders and practices took on different names: corporate raiders, leveraged buyouts, activist investors. But corporations' efforts to maximize profits at all cost also led directly to scandals including Enron, the BP oil spill and the 2007-08 financial crisis.


How shareholders jumped to first in line for profits

So who, exactly, are these evil shareholders?

Well, contrary to popular belief, it is America's institutional investors who plow the savings - often retirement savings - of many millions of Americans (and foreigners) into American (and foreign) companies in a never-ending effort to maximize their value and their client's faith in the fiduciary process.

Yes, it is the job of these fiduciaries to put the interest of their client's first and to insure that they often demand (and receive) director seats on the boards of our most stable and profitable corporations in exchange for large investments ... investments that allow the companies to not only continue operating profitably, but to expand and create more JOBS for Americans and more WEALTH for the shareholders.

In other words, it is the moms and pops whose 401Ks and IRAs not only provide for the individual's retirement but also for America's (and American's) economic health.

I understand not everyone (half of American households do not own stock) invests in our economy or our future but half of American households do. It is those who do not who whine most loudly (and most ignorantly) about greedy corporations that "ruined America."

Yea but you are missing the bigger picture. They are maximizing shareholder investment at the expense of workers. I understand as a Ayn Rand Milton Freeman Libertarian Free Market Capitalistic Zero Regulations type of person you don't care but I'm just telling you this is why America is no longer great. It is for those shareholders but not for workers and not for America.

And it wasn't always this way. Corporations didn't always put shareholders first. I understand and agree they needed to put them as a higher priority than they did but not at the expense of the American middle class. You seem to be ok with it that they broke the social contract with America. That's unregulated free market capitalism that doesn't have a strong labor union and Democratic party to fight back.

Just as long as you understand why Americans aren't doing as well as their parents did. Don't blame Obama.

 

[sealybobo]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

We were great before Ayn Rand, Jack Walsh, Milton Freeman, the Rich and Corporations ruined America because of their greed.

CEOs have a responsibility to maximize profits for shareholders. But companies have not always seen themselves as serving stockholders first. The big change began with Milton Friedman when he wrote “There is only one social responsibility of business to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits.” Friedman argued that corporations were taking on too many “social responsibilities": providing jobs, helping to fight pollution and reducing discrimination in society. In their eyes, the model was inefficient and unfair to shareholders. There was an obsession with shareholder value maximization. The approach indeed made Wall Street happy. The stock market soared twelvefold in the '80s and '90s.

But, a fast way to fast profits is cutting jobs and wages and so the “corporate social contract” began to erode in the 1980s. This social contract between employer and employee basically said, ‘If you come to work every day, and you work hard, and you give the corporation a measure of loyalty, we in turn will take care of you, often for the rest of your life, by extending healthcare and generous pensions to retirees. All that changed. Real wages flattened. Job security became more tenuous and pensions and healthcare benefits eroded. This idea of maximizing shareholder value is an important reason why all that happened.


A relevant case study is General Electric in the 1980s, run by Jack Welch. Back in the 1950s, GE like many companies at the time put workers over shareholders. Under Welch, the firm downsized more than 100,000 workers in five years. GE’s actions spawned a lot more similar type of aggressive cost restructuring across industrial America in the late '80s and through the 1990s. Fair or not, Welch became the face of maximizing shareholder value. Other executives followed suit. Over the years, these aggressive shareholders and practices took on different names: corporate raiders, leveraged buyouts, activist investors. But corporations' efforts to maximize profits at all cost also led directly to scandals including Enron, the BP oil spill and the 2007-08 financial crisis.


How shareholders jumped to first in line for profits

So who, exactly, are these evil shareholders?

Well, contrary to popular belief, it is America's institutional investors who plow the savings - often retirement savings - of many millions of Americans (and foreigners) into American (and foreign) companies in a never-ending effort to maximize their value and their client's faith in the fiduciary process.

Yes, it is the job of these fiduciaries to put the interest of their client's first and to insure that they often demand (and receive) director seats on the boards of our most stable and profitable corporations in exchange for large investments ... investments that allow the companies to not only continue operating profitably, but to expand and create more JOBS for Americans and more WEALTH for the shareholders.

In other words, it is the moms and pops whose 401Ks and IRAs not only provide for the individual's retirement but also for America's (and American's) economic health.

I understand not everyone (half of American households do not own stock) invests in our economy or our future but half of American households do. It is those who do not who whine most loudly (and most ignorantly) about greedy corporations that "ruined America."

I'm a shareholder by the way. Yet I am also a worker. So I don't want to **** worker Sealy just to enrich investor Sealy.

 

[SAYIT]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

We were great before Ayn Rand, Jack Walsh, Milton Freeman, the Rich and Corporations ruined America because of their greed.

CEOs have a responsibility to maximize profits for shareholders. But companies have not always seen themselves as serving stockholders first. The big change began with Milton Friedman when he wrote “There is only one social responsibility of business to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits.” Friedman argued that corporations were taking on too many “social responsibilities": providing jobs, helping to fight pollution and reducing discrimination in society. In their eyes, the model was inefficient and unfair to shareholders. There was an obsession with shareholder value maximization. The approach indeed made Wall Street happy. The stock market soared twelvefold in the '80s and '90s.

But, a fast way to fast profits is cutting jobs and wages and so the “corporate social contract” began to erode in the 1980s. This social contract between employer and employee basically said, ‘If you come to work every day, and you work hard, and you give the corporation a measure of loyalty, we in turn will take care of you, often for the rest of your life, by extending healthcare and generous pensions to retirees. All that changed. Real wages flattened. Job security became more tenuous and pensions and healthcare benefits eroded. This idea of maximizing shareholder value is an important reason why all that happened.


A relevant case study is General Electric in the 1980s, run by Jack Welch. Back in the 1950s, GE like many companies at the time put workers over shareholders. Under Welch, the firm downsized more than 100,000 workers in five years. GE’s actions spawned a lot more similar type of aggressive cost restructuring across industrial America in the late '80s and through the 1990s. Fair or not, Welch became the face of maximizing shareholder value. Other executives followed suit. Over the years, these aggressive shareholders and practices took on different names: corporate raiders, leveraged buyouts, activist investors. But corporations' efforts to maximize profits at all cost also led directly to scandals including Enron, the BP oil spill and the 2007-08 financial crisis.


How shareholders jumped to first in line for profits

So who, exactly, are these evil shareholders?

Well, contrary to popular belief, it is America's institutional investors who plow the savings - often retirement savings - of many millions of Americans (and foreigners) into American (and foreign) companies in a never-ending effort to maximize their value and their client's faith in the fiduciary process.

Yes, it is the job of these fiduciaries to put the interest of their client's first and to insure that they often demand (and receive) director seats on the boards of our most stable and profitable corporations in exchange for large investments ... investments that allow the companies to not only continue operating profitably, but to expand and create more JOBS for Americans and more WEALTH for the shareholders.

In other words, it is the moms and pops whose 401Ks and IRAs not only provide for the individual's retirement but also for America's (and American's) economic health.

I understand not everyone (half of American households do not own stock) invests in our economy or our future but half of American households do. It is those who do not who whine most loudly (and most ignorantly) about greedy corporations that "ruined America."

I'm a shareholder by the way. Yet I am also a worker. So I don't want to **** worker Sealy just to enrich investor Sealy.

Yanno, my late mama was an FDR unionist American who, thanks to my "shrewd" investments (mostly Vanguard) enjoyed her very comfortable senior years. Before moving her to Vanguard I managed her modest stock portfolio which often meant voting for or against mergers which, as we all know, often lead to consolidation and job losses. I always put the proxies in front of her - despite having her durable POA - and explained that some jobs could be lost but the combined companies would be stronger (and more profitable) and that she would benefit financially. I would even explain that as a very small shareholder, her decision would have little to no impact on the vote's outcome.

Invariably she would mutter about my capitalistic nature while voting her own best capitalistic interest ... YES.

 

[sealybobo]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

We were great before Ayn Rand, Jack Walsh, Milton Freeman, the Rich and Corporations ruined America because of their greed.

CEOs have a responsibility to maximize profits for shareholders. But companies have not always seen themselves as serving stockholders first. The big change began with Milton Friedman when he wrote “There is only one social responsibility of business to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits.” Friedman argued that corporations were taking on too many “social responsibilities": providing jobs, helping to fight pollution and reducing discrimination in society. In their eyes, the model was inefficient and unfair to shareholders. There was an obsession with shareholder value maximization. The approach indeed made Wall Street happy. The stock market soared twelvefold in the '80s and '90s.

But, a fast way to fast profits is cutting jobs and wages and so the “corporate social contract” began to erode in the 1980s. This social contract between employer and employee basically said, ‘If you come to work every day, and you work hard, and you give the corporation a measure of loyalty, we in turn will take care of you, often for the rest of your life, by extending healthcare and generous pensions to retirees. All that changed. Real wages flattened. Job security became more tenuous and pensions and healthcare benefits eroded. This idea of maximizing shareholder value is an important reason why all that happened.


A relevant case study is General Electric in the 1980s, run by Jack Welch. Back in the 1950s, GE like many companies at the time put workers over shareholders. Under Welch, the firm downsized more than 100,000 workers in five years. GE’s actions spawned a lot more similar type of aggressive cost restructuring across industrial America in the late '80s and through the 1990s. Fair or not, Welch became the face of maximizing shareholder value. Other executives followed suit. Over the years, these aggressive shareholders and practices took on different names: corporate raiders, leveraged buyouts, activist investors. But corporations' efforts to maximize profits at all cost also led directly to scandals including Enron, the BP oil spill and the 2007-08 financial crisis.


How shareholders jumped to first in line for profits

So who, exactly, are these evil shareholders?

Well, contrary to popular belief, it is America's institutional investors who plow the savings - often retirement savings - of many millions of Americans (and foreigners) into American (and foreign) companies in a never-ending effort to maximize their value and their client's faith in the fiduciary process.

Yes, it is the job of these fiduciaries to put the interest of their client's first and to insure that they often demand (and receive) director seats on the boards of our most stable and profitable corporations in exchange for large investments ... investments that allow the companies to not only continue operating profitably, but to expand and create more JOBS for Americans and more WEALTH for the shareholders.

In other words, it is the moms and pops whose 401Ks and IRAs not only provide for the individual's retirement but also for America's (and American's) economic health.

I understand not everyone (half of American households do not own stock) invests in our economy or our future but half of American households do. It is those who do not who whine most loudly (and most ignorantly) about greedy corporations that "ruined America."

I'm a shareholder by the way. Yet I am also a worker. So I don't want to **** worker Sealy just to enrich investor Sealy.

Yanno, my late mama was an FDR unionist American who, thanks to my "shrewd" investments (mostly Vanguard) enjoyed her very comfortable senior years. Before moving her to Vanguard I managed her modest stock portfolio which often meant voting for or against mergers which, as we all know, often lead to consolidation and job losses. I always put the proxies in front of her - despite having her durable POA - and explained that some jobs could be lost but the combined companies would be stronger (and more profitable) and that she would benefit financially. I would even explain that as a very small shareholder, her decision would have little to no impact on the vote's outcome.

Invariably she would mutter about my capitalistic nature while voting her own best capitalistic interest ... YES.

What I wish we would have known in hindsight was that these FDR unionist American workers would fight for good wages and benefits but then when they got old they would turn around and say that what they had is now too good for the next generation of workers.

Your mother went from being a worker to being an investor. Maybe that's why we are screwed. Too many rich baby boomers who forgot where they came from or how they got where they are.

 

[sealybobo]

Hmmmm. I keep hearing let's make America great again. I'm struggling to understand exactly when that was. Let's see, for the 1st 240 years or so, America legally enslaved other human beings based on the color of their skin. The next 60 years or so America instituted Jim Crow which solidified the underdevelopment and impoverishment of an entire race. Following that the decade of the 60's rolled in with civil unrest resulting from overt racism, climaxing in the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Here we are today many decades after her 1776 official birth; standing at the precipice of political, economic, domestic and international unrest. To be fair, there absolutely have been terrific moments in American history but usually those celebratory moments were enjoyed by only a segment of her citizens... not all. It seems it would be hard to systematically and institutionally neglect a huge part of its citizens and expect them to clearly see her greatness. So I don't know, maybe it's just [my lens] but I'm not sure what time they're referring to. Do you?

Here is when America was great. 1950-1999. My grandmother never made much but she owned her own home and managed to save $100k. She retired with good Medicare and social security plus she made 9% on that $100k.

She was able to retire at 65.

Anyone smart with their money could do it. Can this be done today? First of all she didn’t have to go to college to make a living. So we need good paying blue collar jobs for the masses. But that’s not gonna happen