Mad Men

[George Costanza]

Watched the first episode - interesting. Will watch more.
I was born in 1965, so obviously the time period is before my time - however the large gap between women and men and the treatment of women in the workplace when I began my career in the late 80's was still similar to how it was in this show, just not quite as blatant. It was nothing for guys to comment all kinds of sexual innuendos to "office girls" back then (80's)....not now.

Actually, the show protrays much more sexism than innuendo...you'll see: The behaviours toward women were astonishingly appalling....almost Clintonesque.

Here, here . . . Order! This is a Mad Men thread, not a political thread.

 

[Samson]

Watched the first episode - interesting. Will watch more.
I was born in 1965, so obviously the time period is before my time - however the large gap between women and men and the treatment of women in the workplace when I began my career in the late 80's was still similar to how it was in this show, just not quite as blatant. It was nothing for guys to comment all kinds of sexual innuendos to "office girls" back then (80's)....not now.

Actually, the show protrays much more sexism than innuendo...you'll see: The behaviours toward women were astonishingly appalling....almost Clintonesque.

Here, here . . . Order! This is a Mad Men thread, not a political thread.

Well, if you can think of a better term for the expectation that females will sexually service men in positions of professional authority, I'll be happy to apply it.

While you're at it....

Define "is."

 

[George Costanza]

Actually, the show protrays much more sexism than innuendo...you'll see: The behaviours toward women were astonishingly appalling....almost Clintonesque.

Here, here . . . Order! This is a Mad Men thread, not a political thread.

Well, if you can think of a better term for the expectation that females will sexually service men in positions of professional authority, I'll be happy to apply it.

While you're at it....

Define "is."

Well played. Twas ever thus, hey? And I refer not only to the expectation, but also to the reality.

 

[George Costanza]

Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms. I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.

Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men. Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it. Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is." As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's. It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.

At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that." This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart." Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall. This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.

I love anachronisms in movies. You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff. Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920. Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."

Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .

 

[Samson]

Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms. I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.

Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men. Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it. Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is." As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's. It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.

At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that." This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart." Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall. This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.

I love anachronisms in movies. You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff. Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920. Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."

Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .

The only anachronism I've caught is, "Look at you! You,..."

All the characters say this. I was, and am still not sure if this is a REGIONAL thing, or a PERIOD thing, or both...

Look at you! You, all dressed up.


My favorite character is Roger. My favorite line is:

Roger Sterling: “Remember Don … when God closes a door, he opens a dress.”

 

[MikeK]

Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms. I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.

Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men. Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it. Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is." As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's. It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.

I think you're right. Good observation.

At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that." This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart." Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall. This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.

I love anachronisms in movies. You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff. Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920. Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."

I've always liked Tony Curtis because his speech mannerism is so perfectly Brooklyn. His good looks were such as to transcend his Brooklyn accent, which was present even in his part in Spartacus.

Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .

 

[MikeK]

Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms. I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.

Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men. Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it. Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is." As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's. It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.

At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that." This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart." Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall. This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.

I love anachronisms in movies. You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff. Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920. Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."

Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .

The only anachronism I've caught is, "Look at you! You,..."

All the characters say this. I was, and am still not sure if this is a REGIONAL thing, or a PERIOD thing, or both...

Look at you! You, all dressed up.


My favorite character is Roger. My favorite line is:

Roger Sterling: “Remember Don … when God closes a door, he opens a dress.”

I like Roger, too. He is about as smooth as it gets. The perfect Madison Avenue figure in every way.

Re: anachronisms; except for the most blatant of them I suppose they always get past me.

 

[George Costanza]

I've always liked Tony Curtis because his speech mannerism is so perfectly Brooklyn. His good looks were such as to transcend his Brooklyn accent, which was present even in his part in Spartacus.

Just an aside - I think Ray Liota is the living reincarnation of Tony Curtis. They don't look exactly alike, but it's very close. Their mannerisms, way of talking - Liota really reminds me of a present-day Tony Curtis.

Interestingly, the "younder lies da castle of me foddah" story is largly urban myth, I Googled it, and it would appear that Tony Curtis never said it or, if he did, it wasn't anywhere near what the quote has turned into. Sorry, I don't have time now to link the Web sites on it, but if you have time, just Google the quote and read about it. Interesting stuff.

 

[Samson]

I've always liked Tony Curtis because his speech mannerism is so perfectly Brooklyn. His good looks were such as to transcend his Brooklyn accent, which was present even in his part in Spartacus.

Just an aside - I think Ray Liota is the living reincarnation of Tony Curtis. They don't look exactly alike, but it's very close. Their mannerisms, way of talking - Liota really reminds me of a present-day Tony Curtis.

Interestingly, the "younder lies da castle of me foddah" story is largly urban myth, I Googled it, and it would appear that Tony Curtis never said it or, if he did, it wasn't anywhere near what the quote has turned into. Sorry, I don't have time now to link the Web sites on it, but if you have time, just Google the quote and read about it. Interesting stuff.

Tony Curtis, Sean Connery, Sinatra, Martin...I could go on, but we all know that these guys added a certain pinache to their characters which simply cannot be found within modern characters....perhaps this is why Mad Men is so popular: Roger's and Don's characters symbolize traits that we miss.

Of course, there's always the other side of the coin. I understand Dean Martin was one of the greatest guys we could imagine, then and now. Sinatra....not so much.

Tony Curtis definately had his demons, and was lucky not to have inherited Schizophenia (his mother and brother were diagnosed....you can imagine his homelife), 6 marriages, and hospitalization for alcohol and drug abuse, certainly speak to his qualifications to the Mad Men's club.

 

[MikeK]

Interestingly, the "younder lies da castle of me foddah" story is largly urban myth, I Googled it, and it would appear that Tony Curtis never said it or, if he did, it wasn't anywhere near what the quote has turned into. Sorry, I don't have time now to link the Web sites on it, but if you have time, just Google the quote and read about it. Interesting stuff.

I never heard that particular barbarism, either. But in spite of the fact that producers of Curtis' movies hired a speech coach to polish his pronunciations, he was incurably Brooklyn and nothing short of a five year residency in London would eliminate his unmistakable Flatbush inflection.

 

[MikeK]

Of course, there's always the other side of the coin. I understand Dean Martin was one of the greatest guys we could imagine, then and now. Sinatra....not so much.

That's what I've heard (or read). Dean Martin was the archetypal nice guy while Sinatra was an arrogant, nasty, snob.

 

[George Costanza]

Of course, there's always the other side of the coin. I understand Dean Martin was one of the greatest guys we could imagine, then and now. Sinatra....not so much.

That's what I've heard (or read). Dean Martin was the archetypal nice guy while Sinatra was an arrogant, nasty, snob.

You guys both have this one right - at least, based on what I have heard about Dino and Sinatra as well as my personal impressions gleaned from just watching them over the years.

 

[George Costanza]

I love Roger's character as well. Getting head from Don's mother-in-law at a posh awards dinner. Priceless.

A common thread among all of these types of series is super excellent casting. Seinfeld. The Sopranos. Mad Men. Downton Abbey. All of them are SUPERBLY cast in every significant role.

 

[Samson]

I love Roger's character as well. Getting head from Don's mother-in-law at a posh awards dinner. Priceless.

A common thread among all of these types of series is super excellent casting. Seinfeld. The Sopranos. Mad Men. Downton Abbey. All of them are SUPERBLY cast in every significant role.

I found the head scene a little disturbing because Don's daughter watched.

 

[Samson]

I love Roger's character as well. Getting head from Don's mother-in-law at a posh awards dinner. Priceless.

A common thread among all of these types of series is super excellent casting. Seinfeld. The Sopranos. Mad Men. Downton Abbey. All of them are SUPERBLY cast in every significant role.

Interesting....when I think about it, none of the main characters are 20-somethings either.

Perhaps you must have developed a character to really play a character.

 

[George Costanza]

Season 5 - Episode 12: Lane commits suicide. The closing song chosen for that episode is "Butchie's Tune" by the Lovin' Spoonful. It plays as Don is allowing Sally's friend, Glen, to drive his (Don's) new Jaguar as he takes the kid home. Obviously, the song has more to do with Lane's suicide than Don's being a good guy by letting Glen drive the car.

I didn't pay as much attention to the music of the 1960's as I should have. Judging by this great tune, that was probably a mistake.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B56XwHiDrWc]The Lovin' Spoonful - 11 - Butchie's Tune (by EarpJohn) - YouTube[/ame]

While we're on the subject of the closing songs for each of the Mad Men episodes, how about the closer for Episode 13 of Season 5, the last show of the season? Nancy Sinatra sings "You Only Live Twice" as Don sits at the bar, being approcahed by a beautiful woman, interested in more than just conversation. I felt right from the start that Jon Hamm would have been a better James Bond than just about anyone who ever played the role - yes, including Sean Connery, believe it or not. (OK, maybe not Sean Connery, but certainly better than any of the other Bonds.)

An obvious attempt to play on Hamm's Bond-like appearance. Very well done, I thought.

Here, this should keep Mad Men fans busy for a while:

http://www.amctv.com/shows/mad-men/ultimate-fan-game/all-quizzes

 

[Samson]

Season 5 - Episode 12: Lane commits suicide. The closing song chosen for that episode is "Butchie's Tune" by the Lovin' Spoonful. It plays as Don is allowing Sally's friend, Glen, to drive his (Don's) new Jaguar as he takes the kid home. Obviously, the song has more to do with Lane's suicide than Don's being a good guy by letting Glen drive the car.

Yes, obviously the song can easily be about Lane's suicide, which let's face it, was amusing for several reasons:

1. The failed suicide attempt in the infamous mechanically inferiour Jaguar
2. The ultimate hypocracy of Don (Dick) asking for the resignation of Lane because Lane pretended to be Don, forging his signature
3. The astonishing frequency of people in Don's life hanging themselves. Lane is #2 after Don's half brother. I predict we will see a lot of Lane's ghost season 6.
4. Amazingly, Don is allowing Glen to drive...pretending to be something he is not: an adult and licensed driver, while his conscious is ....Where? Dead?.....



IMHO the song is also very much about Don's conscious

Don't give me a place for my memories to stay
Don't show me an inn or a light to find the way
I ain't got time for the things on your mind
And I'm leavin´ you today on my way

Please don't you cry when the time to part has come
It's not for what you've said or anything that you've done
I gotta go anywhere anytime
And I'm leavin´, gone today, on my way
I'm goin´ home

Please don't stick around to see me when I'm feelin´ low
Don't pass the cards to me to deal the crashing blow
I'll leave and close the door so you won't see me go
When I'm leavin´, gone today, I'm on my way

I'll walk away like a shadow in the night
I won't give cause for you to feel we have to fight
I'll make it easy so that you won't really quite
Know I'm leavin´ you today on my way
And now I'm going

While we're on the subject of the closing songs for each of the Mad Men episodes, how about the closer for Episode 13 of Season 5, the last show of the season? Nancy Sinatra sings "You Only Live Twice" as Don sits at the bar, being approcahed by a beautiful woman, interested in more than just conversation. I felt right from the start that Jon Hamm would have been a better James Bond than just about anyone who ever played the role - yes, including Sean Connery, believe it or not. (OK, maybe not Sean Connery, but certainly better than any of the other Bonds.)

An obvious attempt to play on Hamm's Bond-like appearance. Very well done, I thought.

I think you must be a male adult from 1960 to qualify to be James Bond.

Sean Connery ACTUALLY was THE real deal: Jon Hamm ACTS like the real deal. Both make terrific Bonds.

Don is actually being aproched by TWO women at the bar, thus making "You Only Live Twice" have the double (pun intended) sexual context, as well as the promise of another affair in which Don will need YET ANOTHER IDENTITY, and another season of Mad Men.


You only live twice or so it seems
One life for yourself and one for your dreams
You drift through the years and life seems tame
Till one dream appears and love is it's name
And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone


This dream is for you, so pay the price
Make one dream come true, you only live twice
And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone
This dream is for you, so pay the price

Make one dream come true, you only live twice

 

[George Costanza]

Season 5 - Episode 12: Lane commits suicide. The closing song chosen for that episode is "Butchie's Tune" by the Lovin' Spoonful. It plays as Don is allowing Sally's friend, Glen, to drive his (Don's) new Jaguar as he takes the kid home. Obviously, the song has more to do with Lane's suicide than Don's being a good guy by letting Glen drive the car.

Yes, obviously the song can easily be about Lane's suicide, which let's face it, was amusing for several reasons:

1. The failed suicide attempt in the infamous mechanically inferiour Jaguar
2. The ultimate hypocracy of Don (Dick) asking for the resignation of Lane because Lane pretended to be Don, forging his signature
3. The astonishing frequency of people in Don's life hanging themselves. Lane is #2 after Don's half brother. I predict we will see a lot of Lane's ghost season 6.
4. Amazingly, Don is allowing Glen to drive...pretending to be something he is not: an adult and licensed driver, while his conscious is ....Where? Dead?.....



IMHO the song is also very much about Don's conscious

Don't give me a place for my memories to stay
Don't show me an inn or a light to find the way
I ain't got time for the things on your mind
And I'm leavin´ you today on my way

Please don't you cry when the time to part has come
It's not for what you've said or anything that you've done
I gotta go anywhere anytime
And I'm leavin´, gone today, on my way
I'm goin´ home

Please don't stick around to see me when I'm feelin´ low
Don't pass the cards to me to deal the crashing blow
I'll leave and close the door so you won't see me go
When I'm leavin´, gone today, I'm on my way

I'll walk away like a shadow in the night
I won't give cause for you to feel we have to fight
I'll make it easy so that you won't really quite
Know I'm leavin´ you today on my way
And now I'm going

While we're on the subject of the closing songs for each of the Mad Men episodes, how about the closer for Episode 13 of Season 5, the last show of the season? Nancy Sinatra sings "You Only Live Twice" as Don sits at the bar, being approcahed by a beautiful woman, interested in more than just conversation. I felt right from the start that Jon Hamm would have been a better James Bond than just about anyone who ever played the role - yes, including Sean Connery, believe it or not. (OK, maybe not Sean Connery, but certainly better than any of the other Bonds.)

An obvious attempt to play on Hamm's Bond-like appearance. Very well done, I thought.

I think you must be a male adult from 1960 to qualify to be James Bond.

Sean Connery ACTUALLY was THE real deal: Jon Hamm ACTS like the real deal. Both make terrific Bonds.

Don is actually being aproched by TWO women at the bar, thus making "You Only Live Twice" have the double (pun intended) sexual context, as well as the promise of another affair in which Don will need YET ANOTHER IDENTITY, and another season of Mad Men.


You only live twice or so it seems
One life for yourself and one for your dreams
You drift through the years and life seems tame
Till one dream appears and love is it's name
And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone


This dream is for you, so pay the price
Make one dream come true, you only live twice
And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone
This dream is for you, so pay the price

Make one dream come true, you only live twice

You show remarkable insight into the nuances of this show. I am impressed.

As an aside - speaking of Hamm as Bond, I'm sure you are aware that Hamm made a brief appearance in some chick flick ("Bridesmaids") where he played an absolute male bimbo; just a total idiot. It was so completely out of character for him, it not only fell flat for me, I actually found it repulsive. (Not that I watch chick flicks, of course . . . ahem . . . )

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Tony Curtis definately had his demons, and was lucky not to have inherited Schizophenia (his mother and brother were diagnosed....you can imagine his homelife), 6 marriages, and hospitalization for alcohol and drug abuse, certainly speak to his qualifications to the Mad Men's club.

I didn't know that about his parents, or the six marriages, etc.

I also like his daughter, Jamie Lee Curtis, very much. She seems to be a very nice person off camera, and it comes across in the characters she plays -- her role in the movie, My Girl, being the best example (in my opinion).

 

[George Costanza]

Mad Men Theme . . . . with a twist . . .

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEj0z0maxzM]Mad Men Theme Song ... With a Twist - YouTube[/ame]