Lying

[chopcrazy]

no, it's not ok, it is not ethical, and ends up hurting someone, somewhere down the line... even if it seemed appropriate at the time, or the lesser of two evils at the time....

If the wife asks, "Do I look fat in this dress?", what is the appropriate response if she actually does look fat?

 

[jillian]

If the wife asks, "Do I look fat in this dress?", what is the appropriate response if she actually does look fat?

you could say it isn't her most flattering outfit and suggest she wear blah blah blah that is really hot.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

If the wife asks, "Do I look fat in this dress?", what is the appropriate response if she actually does look fat?

That dress does not flatter you.

If you have already hired your atty, then you can say, "It is not the fault of the dress you ate a pound of fudge yesterday."

 

[jillian]

Dropping your client is not always an option. The question was hypothetical anyway. The idea is that there are always going to be instances where you have the oppurtunity to lie. The choice you make determoines who you are. What type of person you are. Choosing to lie is not always the wrong choice. There are instance where telling the truth can do more damage.

There are limits, though. Lying (or engaging in puffery) when you're negotiating a settlement is different from knowing your client is going to lie on the witness stand, yes? One you can call "negotiating tactic", the other is a violation of the cannons of ethics.

And yes, there are times it's appropriate to lie, IMO, although when you do, it's your reputation that is at stake cause I know once an adversary said something untrue, there wasn't another word they could say to me that I'd believe.... most judges feel that way about the attorneys who come before them, too. in falsus uno and all that.

 

[editec]

EVER?!

Probably.

 

[Silence]

If the wife asks, "Do I look fat in this dress?", what is the appropriate response if she actually does look fat?

that is a trick question thrown out by women trying to start a fight... she ALREADY knows the dress makes her look fat, otherwise she wouldn't have asked in the first place. and by the by, it's not the dress making her look fat...it's her FAT MAKING HER LOOK FAT!

answer to the OP...

it's not okay for politicians to lie and it's not okay for kids to lie.

BUT I do think it depends on the lie as to how serious it is...

a kid lying they made their bed or did their homework so they can watch a little more tv is one thing

lying that they didn't steal the $10 out of their mom's purse is another


just like a politician

lying to the public about an affair which is none of the public's business is one thing

lying to the public about WMD is another....

 

[CrimsonWhite]

There are limits, though. Lying (or engaging in puffery) when you're negotiating a settlement is different from knowing your client is going to lie on the witness stand, yes? One you can call "negotiating tactic", the other is a violation of the cannons of ethics.

And yes, there are times it's appropriate to lie, IMO, although when you do, it's your reputation that is at stake cause I know once an adversary said something untrue, there wasn't another word they could say to me that I'd believe.... most judges feel that way about the attorneys who come before them, too. in falsus uno and all that.

Yeah, but shouldn't your mindset be, to not believe anything your adversary says anyway.

Falsus in Uno is used mostly in Personal Injury. I never hear that term, but I get your point. I personally have not yet found an instance where strategically, lying was an advantage. However, it could happen.

 

[sealybobo]

We want politicians to lie to us. If they don't, we don't vote for them. So it's not the politicians, it's the people.

Carlin said it best:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians," Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.'"

 

[AllieBaba]

Is it okay for anyone to lie or do we simply accept it because it is an inevible fact of human nature?

Your questions are rhetorical and therefore cannot be answered. The real question is "is it okay to lie?" The Bible says no, yet preachers lie. My ethics classes in law school said no, yet I practice with attorneys who have turned it into an art form. Everyone lies at one time or another. It is an involuntary action of human nature.

Now, what is a lie? Is an ommisson of truth or an opposite position of the truth? Is it an exaggeration? Is it a lie when it is used for good? Such as a military commander protecting a classified operation or a nurse telling a terminal patient that everything is going to be okay.

I'm not trying to belittle your question. Your question is simply too simple.

It's never ok to lie, but you're right when you ask for a definition of "lie".

A lie is to knowingly withhold or fabricate. You aren't lying if you mistakenly say something which is true to your knowledge, but turns out to be incorrect.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

that is a trick question thrown out by women trying to start a fight... she ALREADY knows the dress makes her look fat, otherwise she wouldn't have asked in the first place. and by the by, it's not the dress making her look fat...it's her FAT MAKING HER LOOK FAT!

answer to the OP...

it's not okay for politicians to lie and it's not okay for kids to lie.

BUT I do think it depends on the lie as to how serious it is...

a kid lying they made their bed or did their homework so they can watch a little more tv is one thing

lying that they didn't steal the $10 out of their mom's purse is another


just like a politician

lying to the public about an affair which is none of the public's business is one thing

lying to the public about WMD is another....

Ahh yes, you had to cover Billy the annointed didn't you?

And no one lied about WMD's by the way. EVERYONE believed Saddam Hussein had them, INCLUDING his own Generals. Or do we need to have someone dig up all the quotes from all the liberals, democrats and the foreign Governments leading up to the Iraq war.

The lie is you claiming there was a lie about WMD's. And here I thought lying was bad according to you. Clinton lies under oath to a Judge on a material matter to protect his ass, all good. Bush and EVERYONE in the world thinks Saddam has WMD's and that is bad. Got ya.

By the way, if Bush lied about Saddam Hussein's WMD's then so did your buddy Bill Clinton and for a lot longer then Bush.

 

[AllieBaba]

I love watching all the leftoids claiming lying is okay, if they decide it isn't a "bad" lie.

 

[jillian]

Yeah, but shouldn't your mindset be, to not believe anything your adversary says anyway.

lol... Depends on your adversary and wha you're "believing" them about.

Some adversaries I had, I wouldn't have believed if they told me the day of the week.

Falsus in Uno is used mostly in Personal Injury. I never hear that term, but I get your point. I personally have not yet found an instance where strategically, lying was an advantage. However, it could happen.

Falsus in uno IS used mostly in civil trials. Basically,the jury is given the instruction that if they find a witness has lied about one thing, that they may, if they choose (but do not have to), disregard his or her entire testimony.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Is it OK for politicians to lie?

Is it OK for your kids to lie?

If there is a difference in these answers, please explain.

Politicians - Is it o.k. for any other employee of mine to lie to me? NO!

Kids - No, not really... but I still can't fire them for it.

Unlike politicians and other employees who should be fired when they are busted in a lie.

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

unless you have a job that involves the secrecy or are a covert operative etc, yes, the truth is always the answer and it will always set you free.... with very few exceptions... in my opinion.

Why not either give the truth or say nothing?

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

If the wife asks, "Do I look fat in this dress?", what is the appropriate response if she actually does look fat?

Tell her that it's not the dress...

-J

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Falsus in uno IS used mostly in civil trials. Basically,the jury is given the instruction that if they find a witness has lied about one thing, that they may, if they choose (but do not have to), disregard his or her entire testimony.

I said I never hear it. I never said that I had not heard it. I'm well aware of what it is and it's application.

 

[MichaelCollins]

If onethedefence is an attorney.... it says everything we need to know about the state of education in the US.

His posts are grammatically a mess...with virtually every single one containing several basic spelling mistakes.

 

[dilloduck]

I see you had to come to America to play again !

 

[jillian]

I said I never hear it. I never said that I had not heard it. I'm well aware of what it is and it's application.

Sorry, counselor. My bad.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

If onethedefence is an attorney.... it says everything we need to know about the state of education in the US.

His posts are grammatically a mess...with virtually every single one containing several basic spelling mistakes.

I try to speak at a level you would understand, forgive me for being considerate.

I type the way I speak. I am southern, it is a dialect. I also don't type very well, not due to poor education, but due to a lack of interest in typing.


Also, If MichaelCollins is a Brit, then the UK should be ashamed they produced him. I attended school with a couple of Brits, great people. Not sure they would claim this shit stain though.