Looks like Tea Party was right about Obamacare. America owes them an apology

[TyroneSlothrop]

How could a President/Congress double the national debt and this chart be an honest appraisal?

The same way as if you divorce and your ex spouse has left you bills that are now coming in and that spouse has subtracted from income by a tax cut so you have a double whammy to deal with...that is how that happens.. It is not that you are spending heavily and irresponsibly..

So your blaming the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of the Bush Presidency, that's mostly fair, they did control the purse strings and over-site of the housing bubble.

That Congress did not approve the tax cuts that drive deficits and the two wars and the Medicare part d was already approved ...

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare. It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.

It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.

Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.

This is the reality...you are misinformed....

Interesting since that's not the projected debt the CBO is stating after Obama's 8 years in office.

The Congressional Budget Office projects that over his 8 years in office, the Administration will have engaged in $7.5 trillion in deficit-spending and the national debt will almost double.

MISERY INDEX IS ABOUT TO SOAR

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Iam wondering if you have a link or source for your assertions..

Here is some information regarding Canada's Health Care and it's decision to include private health insurance.

In 2011, health care spending consumed 50 percent of revenues in Canada’s two largest provinces, Ontario and Quebec.

By 2017, four more provinces — Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia and New Brunswick — will spend half of their revenues on health care, according to the institute.

Total federal, provincial and territorial government health spending has grown by 8.1 percent annually, while the national GDP in Canada rose by only 6.7 percent during the same period.

In response to the rapidly rising costs, provincial governments have raised taxes and rationed care, increasing patient wait times.

Report: Canadian health care spending unsustainable | The Daily Caller

The Daily Caller is a creation of Tucker Carlson.. I have no confidence in his editorial or intellectual integrity.

However it's the Canadian Supreme Court, and not the daily caller, which opened the door to private health care, as well as acknowledged the flaws found through the government form of controlling health care.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.

Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.

This is the reality...you are misinformed....

Interesting since that's not the projected debt the CBO is stating after Obama's 8 years in office.

The Congressional Budget Office projects that over his 8 years in office, the Administration will have engaged in $7.5 trillion in deficit-spending and the national debt will almost double.

MISERY INDEX IS ABOUT TO SOAR

yes but those expenditures are not all from Obama initiatives...they are existent liabilities...

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Here is some information regarding Canada's Health Care and it's decision to include private health insurance.

The Daily Caller is a creation of Tucker Carlson.. I have no confidence in his editorial or intellectual integrity.

However it's the Canadian Supreme Court, and not the daily caller, which opened the door to private health care, as well as acknowledged the flaws found through the government form of controlling health care.

That is a Judicial decision and not a system wide move towards private health care...

 

[Lumpy 1]

The same way as if you divorce and your ex spouse has left you bills that are now coming in and that spouse has subtracted from income by a tax cut so you have a double whammy to deal with...that is how that happens.. It is not that you are spending heavily and irresponsibly..

So your blaming the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of the Bush Presidency, that's mostly fair, they did control the purse strings and over-site of the housing bubble.

That Congress did not approve the tax cuts that drive deficits and the two wars and the Medicare part d was already approved ...

The 2 wars were paid for during the Bush years and Medicare part D (yet another socialist plan) Democrats accepted it as a complete success.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

So your blaming the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of the Bush Presidency, that's mostly fair, they did control the purse strings and over-site of the housing bubble.

That Congress did not approve the tax cuts that drive deficits and the two wars and the Medicare part d was already approved ...

The 2 wars were paid for during the Bush years and Medicare part D (yet another socialist plan) Democrats accepted as a complete success.

The two wars were KEPT OFF BUDGET AND HAVE NOT AS YOU CLAIM BEEN PAID FOR...the Prescription part d was opposed by Democrats and it took an extraordinary extension of voting into the wee hours by Tom Delay to get it passed by the skin of its teeth.

Now please look at this chart and describe what you see

 

[Lumpy 1]

That Congress did not approve the tax cuts that drive deficits and the two wars and the Medicare part d was already approved ...

The 2 wars were paid for during the Bush years and Medicare part D (yet another socialist plan) Democrats accepted as a complete success.

The two wars were KEPT OFF BUDGET AND HAVE NOT AS YOU CLAIM BEEN PAID FOR...the Prescription part d was opposed by Democrats and it took an extraordinary extension of voting into the wee hours by Tom Delay to get it passed by the skin of its teeth.

Now please look at this chart and describe what you see

This link may help you to understand the errors in your perspective..

Democrat and (Democrat lite) Republican sponsored social programs are sinking the country.

Blame for the national debt | Just Facts Daily

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

This is the reality...you are misinformed....

How could a President/Congress double the national debt and this chart be an honest appraisal?

The same way as if you divorce and your ex spouse has left you bills that are now coming in and that spouse has subtracted from income by a tax cut so you have a double whammy to deal with...that is how that happens.. It is not that you are spending heavily and irresponsibly..

Hate to burst your bubble since you've really grown attached to your nice colored graph, but let's start things off with just ONE concrete fact that should help bring things into their proper perspective.

After the eight year term of President George W. Bush was up, the Iraq War cost taxpayers $820 BILLION dollars.
SOURCE - http://www.dpc.senate.gov/docs/fs-112-1-36.pdf

Now we look to the Obama stimulus bill which has the CBO estimate of $821 BILLION dollars.
SOURCE - CBO raises its stimulus cost estimate, again - Washington Times

Then to that you include the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac blank checks, the Chevy Volt incentives, the prolonged unemployment extensions which brings in no federal revenue ( had this president use some intelligence to look to the pipeline construction from Canada for jobs instead of insisting on more unemployment checks ), oh we must not forget all those tax dollars wasted on green corporations that fell towards bankruptcy - Solyndra, US Geothermal, etc. You know ....... it's not really looking good for President Barrack Obama at this point, I think you should take the time to find a better graph.

 

[Lumpy 1]

How could a President/Congress double the national debt and this chart be an honest appraisal?

The same way as if you divorce and your ex spouse has left you bills that are now coming in and that spouse has subtracted from income by a tax cut so you have a double whammy to deal with...that is how that happens.. It is not that you are spending heavily and irresponsibly..

Hate to burst your bubble since you've really grown attached to your nice colored graph, but let's start things off with just ONE concrete fact that should help bring things into their proper perspective.

After the eight year term of President George W. Bush was up, the Iraq War cost taxpayers $820 BILLION dollars.
SOURCE - http://www.dpc.senate.gov/docs/fs-112-1-36.pdf

Now we look to the Obama stimulus bill which has the CBO estimate of $821 BILLION dollars.
SOURCE - CBO raises its stimulus cost estimate, again - Washington Times

Then to that you include the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac blank checks, the Chevy Volt incentives, the prolonged unemployment extensions which brings in no federal revenue ( had this president use some intelligence to look to the pipeline construction from Canada for jobs instead of insisting on more unemployment checks ), oh we must not forget all those tax dollars wasted on green corporations that fell towards bankruptcy - Solyndra, US Geothermal, etc. You know ....... it's not really looking good for President Barrack Obama at this point, I think you should take the time to find a better graph.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course it is the TPM's fault.

However, if they will fight holding the budge (no new taxes), willing to keep sequestration if necessary, and stop the nonsense about ACA, I will support them.

 

[TooTall]

They are eleigible to buy new policies through the exchanges, no? And when they do, they will incur the benefits that others incur; no lifetime maximums, PEC's are accepted, kids stay on until they're 26, emphasis on preventative care vs. the more costly acute care, etc...

there are 2 good things in the ACA, companies must take people with pre-existing conditions, and no lifetime maximums. The rest of it is crap. Congress could have implemented those 2 things with a one paragraph bill.

Why the hell should a 26 year old adult still be on his/her parent's insurance??? thats fricken stupid.

Some people go to college and need to be on insurance a bit longer. Some, like my assistant, have special needs kids who benefit greatly by the extended insurance stay.

Either way, it doesn't cost you a penny so you're "fricken stupid" for letting it bother you.

Anyone who is still going to college when they are 23 is either in grad school, milking it or too stupid to be there. And you bet your ass it costs extra to have kids and young adults on your policy.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

The 2 wars were paid for during the Bush years and Medicare part D (yet another socialist plan) Democrats accepted as a complete success.

The two wars were KEPT OFF BUDGET AND HAVE NOT AS YOU CLAIM BEEN PAID FOR...the Prescription part d was opposed by Democrats and it took an extraordinary extension of voting into the wee hours by Tom Delay to get it passed by the skin of its teeth.

Now please look at this chart and describe what you see

This link may help you to understand the errors in your perspective..

Democrat and (Democrat lite) Republican sponsored social programs are sinking the country.

Blame for the national debt | Just Facts Daily

I certainly stand by my information and I suggest expanding beyond Right wing sources so you can correct errors in your perspective...

 

[TooTall]

Obama outsourced the setting up of the computer site to canada.

So he started off by giving American jobs to canadians.

It reminds me of when Obama bought the two expensive buses in Canada to the tune of a couple of million each.

I am more reminded of when Bush 43 wanted to outsource American Port Security to a United Arab Emirates (UAE) corporation...

The operative words are "wanted to." It didn't cost the taxpayers a cent because it didn't happen.

 

[TooTall]

Flopper answered your inquiry about buy-when-you-need.

I keep hearing "most Americans don't want it". Obama was re-elected; the Senate stayed in the hands of the Dems. Either the voters are catatonic or there isn't as much angst as is being advertised.

Additionally, it seems as though I recall the health insurance industry signing off on the deal. Are you saying the industry made a mis-calculation of this magnitude?

Hell yes the insurance companies signed off on the deal. The promise by Obama of 30 million new health insurance customers, all paid in full by the US Government. In addition, millions more will be partially funded on their policies with the full faith and credit of Uncle Sugar.
They would have been foolish not to see that bird nest on the ground.

If they signed off then tell me why these MAJOR companies aren't participating???

Aetna (AET, Fortune 500) has actually pulled out of at least five exchanges after submitting proposals in 14 states. Its policies will not be found on the exchanges in Maryland, New York, Georgia, Ohio or its home state of Connecticut. The insurer recently bought Coventry Health Plans, which had also filed to be on several state exchanges, so Aetna is now reviewing both companies' remaining fillings.

"We believe it is critical that our plans not only be competitive, but also financially viable, in order to meet the long-term needs of the exchanges in which we choose to participate," the company said last month after withdrawing from the New York exchange. It will offer individual plans outside of Obamacare in the Empire State.

UnitedHealthcare (UNH, Fortune 500) is also planning limited participation in the new exchanges, at least for 2014. The company said it is taking its time to evaluate the exchanges, which it believes have the potential to be a growth market. It is only participating in about a dozen exchanges next year.
"[We] see 2014 as just the very start of the exchange markets," said spokesman Tyler Mason.

For Cigna (CI, Fortune 500), the decision came down to its customer base. A giant player in the employer market, Cigna is relatively new to the individual insurance side of the business. So it decided to join the exchanges in only the five states where it writes 80% of its individual policies, said spokesman Joseph Mondy. But Cigna will continue to offer plans outside the exchange in all 10 states where it is involved in the individual market.

I was responding to this statement Candycorn made:

Additionally, it seems as though I recall the health insurance industry signing off on the deal.

Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama.

 

[Vox]

history will show the TPM as the great stain of the early 20th century, equal to segregation and a step below slavery.

dumb leftards have problems with basic math

Truth is EVEN conservatives and MANY people on this board DON'T seem to understand simple MATH!
I've hundreds of times TRIED to get people to comprehend that ACA was passed by 7 votes based on the lie there was 46 million people that wanted health insurance!
18 million never needed, are under 34 make over $50k but spend less then the cost of employers insurance... SO why are they included in the 46 million??
14 million don't know all they need due to their income level qualify for Medicaid... YET they have been included! Already qualified.. don't need ACA!
10 million are not citizens!
That's 42 million people counted as "uninsured' that don't want, don't know, and aren't legal! Leaves 4 million truly that need insurance!

It would be so cheap to set up a government program that forces every time these people go to hospital uninsured to have the hospitals BILL Medicare!
But instead the hospitals do as this CEO said when asked how hospitals recoup their "uninsured" costs?
"How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured? Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers.”
From PAGE 1 of this document:
http://www.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

Force the hospitals to send claims for uninsured and it would STILL be cheaper then destruction of our health system!
The hospitals are recouping it by PADDING AND PASSING on to Medicare/insurance companies!
So what does Medicare/insurance companies do??? Pass these costs to premium payers and tax payers!!!

while I never trusted the figure of 46 millions I also do not necessarily agree with some of your points. Young people below 34 need insurance, too, but, it is exactly those 18 which are being aimed at to be hosed the most. 14 millions of the illegals get treated in the hospitals, so if they would be able and obliged to buy insurance ( not obamacare), at least catastrophic one - that would east the costs a lot.
there is nothing bad in requiring people ti have some kind of coverage - but affordable and diverse one - for young and healthy there is no need to have anything more than catastrophic one.
And people who are a bit sicker should pay more.

But I would charge the most not for illnesses - I would charge according to the person's BMI - and in 5 years a lot of medical problems in this country would be alleviated

 

[Vox]

The Daily Caller is a creation of Tucker Carlson.. I have no confidence in his editorial or intellectual integrity.

However it's the Canadian Supreme Court, and not the daily caller, which opened the door to private health care, as well as acknowledged the flaws found through the government form of controlling health care.

That is a Judicial decision and not a system wide move towards private health care...

that is exactly the system wide move towards private health care after judicial decision.

 

[MeBelle]

You're not considering the fact that after the first year, insurance exchanges will be accepting application only between Oct and Dec. with a plan start date of Jan 1. For employer sponsored insurance, you can only sign up for insurance during open enrollment which is once a year for most companies buy can be less frequent. So if a person had a serious accident or illness, they will have to wait up to a year, sometimes longer before coverage begins. Also, by 2017 the penalty for most people for not carrying insurance with be about $2,000/yr for each year there is no coverage.

Lets run with this a little bit..."if a person had a serious accident or illness" don't they just go to the ER to get treated?

If not, why not?

Undocumented immigrants do.

 

[Geaux4it]

Just saw an interview where Sebelius said Obama did not know about the ACA disaster until after 1 Oct. They are asking how the signature legislation of Odummer escaped his oversight.

Was he asleep at the wheel again?

-Geaux

 

[Lumpy 1]

Just saw an interview where Sebelius said Obama did not know about the ACA disaster until after 1 Oct. They are asking how the signature legislation of Odummer escaped his oversight.

Was he asleep at the wheel again?

-Geaux

I heard that also..no surprise though, Obama has a ponderous list of knowing nothing on important issues..