Logic vs American Leftism in American Politics

A small limited government is the key to maximum liberty, opportunity, prosperity.

Which is theoretically true. However, in practice people use political power to gain economic power. And economic power to gain political power.

You can't tell the different between big business and government anymore.

Big business uses the government to raise the barriers of entry into the market and often times....to protect itself.

Also, you need to be clear on which government. Federal, state, county or municiple.
 
Which is theoretically true. However, in practice people use political power to gain economic power. And economic power to gain political power.

You can't tell the different between big business and government anymore.

Big business uses the government to raise the barriers of entry into the market and often times....to protect itself.

Also, you need to be clear on which government. Federal, state, county or municiple.
The reason big business and government seem so inextricably intertwined is that they largely are. Big business can legally be immune to many, sometimes most taxes by off shoring their profitable entities and using less profitable ones still in the USA as tax write offs. Small businesses do not have that capability and therefore it weakens a lot of competition to big business. Also big corporations can handle government mandates, rules, regulations with a lot less pain than can their smaller competitors. So the more intrusive the government is into commercial enterprise, the less competition and more profits big business has.

This is why most big business prefers Democrats in the majority in government and their contributions largely reflect that.

Logic: The less government regulation, mandates and other interference, the more all commerce and industry can prosper the people in all demographics/economic groups.

The Left: Prefers more regulation, mandates, and government control because that benefits them and those they favor and weakens any opposition. Logic be damned as they assure the people that they are the government and they are here to help.
 
The reason big business and government seem so inextricably intertwined is that they largely are. Big business can legally be immune to many, sometimes most taxes by off shoring their profitable entities and using less profitable ones still in the USA as tax write offs. Small businesses do not have that capability and therefore it weakens a lot of competition to big business. Also big corporations can handle government mandates, rules, regulations with a lot less pain than can their smaller competitors. So the more intrusive the government is into commercial enterprise, the less competition and more profits big business has.

This is why most big business prefers Democrats in the majority in government and their contributions largely reflect that.

Logic: The less government regulation, mandates and other interference, the more all commerce and industry can prosper the people in all demographics/economic groups.

The Left: Prefers more regulation, mandates, and government control because that benefits them and those they favor and weakens any opposition. Logic be damned as they assure the people that they are the government and they are here to help.
What you say is true. Down to the "logic" piece.

At the same time government is necessary to keep big business from doing the kinds of things it did in the early to mid 90's to stamp out competition and coerce the workforce. Less government regulations is not going to prosper those individuals who run the show. They depend on government to protect them.

I worked for a couple of muti-nationals and it was quite clear that they used government and their influence to keep competative and "prosper".

I don't agree with your "logic be damned" statement. The left simply choses to cede more of it's natural rights in exchange for what they consider to be "protection" from certain vagaries. They are not without some proof to an extent. The lapland countries are "socialist" but enjoy a lot of great benenfits because of their government. And they don't hurt for wealth.

I don't want over regulation. What I don't like though is this idea that somehow big business and government are at odds. Together they work to keep us down. And since big business is not part of government, you can't argue that it is just the fault of government.

Logic dictates that some people will game the system and that government has to be scrutinized much more than it is. We allow this to happen because.....logic tell us that far to many are to freaking lazy to care.
 
For heaven's sake, that indeed was a tumultuous year in Congress and even Gingrich admitted some of his comments during all that were one of his most avoidable mistakes, but what happened to turn you against the GOP entirely?
When they caved on the budget that they promised not to cave on, just a day or two before Clinton was going to give in.

Also, that pap they spewed after their "Contract with America" bills got passed and later died in the Senate....They quit fighting and meekly whined "well, we triiiiiiiiied"...Democrats never quit on anything.

I vowed to never ever vote for a republican not named Ron Paul again, and haven't been sorry to this point.
 
Joining a tribe and then conforming to their every dictate is not the action of a rational person. It is the action of a fundamentalist.

Ten years ago, nobody thought women had penises or children should be given puberty blockers. That none of those who have gone along with this even question the extreme ways their own views have changed says everything you need to know about them.

Their need to feel part of a group overrides all else, and so they ask no questions about anything. They simply follow.

Logical, intelligent people ask questions. Sheeple do not.
 
A platform is not a manifesto but a guideline for where the general mindset of the party is. The Founders never intended for any political party to have dictatorial power but expected, just as they had to do, that there will be give and take, concessions and compromise to arrive at the best policy possible to promote the general welfare.

Nobody can read the intentions of the right/Patriots/GOP/conservative independents/libertarians (litle "L:) and not appreciate the logic unless they are leftists who reject the logic.

A vote for anything other than the best intentions, whether or not they are successful in accomplishing them, has to be logically preferred to the nightmare we have endured for the last four years.
The Democrat party no longer has a platform.

All they have is a strategy for being elected so they can use their status for personal enrichment.
 
LOGIC vs AMERICAN LEFTISM

Everything written into the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the founding documents, debates, expressed thoughts, concepts, ideas, proposals, and adopted policy was based on logic and reason. The intention was a country of, for and by the people based on liberty with government having as little authority and influence as possible and still have a cohesive and effective country and that would be a guiding light to other countries to become the same.

Logic toward that end was what I believe the Founders would have endorsed and promoted as policy, culture, law, customs. Bottom line their logic was the best America was a strong, secure America with liberty, choices, options, opportunity, prosperity and ability to reach for dreams for all as well be a positive influence in the world.

American Leftism is increasingly antithetical to everything logical that allows for the America the Founders envisioned. It pushes for a government controlled by them to increase their power, authority, influence, and demand what policy, culture, law, customs will be acceptable. And many seem to think a one world government is the ideal

Logic: A small limited government is the key to maximum liberty, opportunity, prosperity.

Leftism: The people are incapable of governing themselves and need a strong government to ensure they do things the way they are supposed to do them.


Logic A. The best policy is that which allows and encourages the people to be able to better provide for themselves.

Leftism: Those who believe A are greedy, selfish, hate the poor.


Logic: In 1948 Israel was established by the U.N., on a TINY piece of land Jews have occupied for thousands of years and consider The Holy Land, as a homeland for Jews cruelly displaced by WWII and/or persecuted in other places. That became international law.

Leftism: The heirs of the Palestinians have every right to return even though they left so the Arabs could kill all the Jews but the Jews have no right to return to their historical homeland.


Logic: The Supreme Court may rule rightly or wrongly but they are an important concept in separation of powers essential for the Constitution to work effectively.

Leftism: The Supreme Court should have unchallenged ability to make law the leftists want but should be dissolved or packed with leftists and/or disciplined by the President or Congress if it rules in a way the leftists don’t want.


Logic: Biologically/scientifically there are two genders that are sufficiently different that certain customs and policies are proper and necessary for the common good. That people want to be a different gender than they were born does not change that biological fact.

Leftism: People should be able to choose whatever gender they want to be and it should be criminal not to recognize, support, approve, fully integrate and accommodate and use the proper pronouns for whatever they choose to be.


Logic: For a government to be of, for and by the people, the people must be confident that the electoral process and results are honest and secure.

Leftism: No matter how many people mistrust the process and results, it is more important that as many (leftist) people vote as possible and if that results in cheating/illegalities, oh well.


Logic: A free people can live, work, play, think, speak, believe, worship, aspire in peace so long as they do not infringe on anybody else’s unalienable rights. The Founders intended the Constitution to promote that concept for all.

Leftism: The government should have full authority to dictate how people must live, work, think, speak, believe, worship and what choices, options, and opportunities will be available to them.

There are many many more of these examples and it is the OP’s intention that others can be added.
Logic - children should be protected from harm and exploitation due to their vulnerability.


Leftism-- the earlier we can get them in our clutches, the better.
 
LOGIC vs AMERICAN LEFTISM

Everything written into the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the founding documents, debates, expressed thoughts, concepts, ideas, proposals, and adopted policy was based on logic and reason. The intention was a country of, for and by the people based on liberty with government having as little authority and influence as possible and still have a cohesive and effective country and that would be a guiding light to other countries to become the same.

Logic toward that end was what I believe the Founders would have endorsed and promoted as policy, culture, law, customs. Bottom line their logic was the best America was a strong, secure America with liberty, choices, options, opportunity, prosperity and ability to reach for dreams for all as well be a positive influence in the world.

American Leftism is increasingly antithetical to everything logical that allows for the America the Founders envisioned. It pushes for a government controlled by them to increase their power, authority, influence, and demand what policy, culture, law, customs will be acceptable. And many seem to think a one world government is the ideal

Logic: A small limited government is the key to maximum liberty, opportunity, prosperity.

Leftism: The people are incapable of governing themselves and need a strong government to ensure they do things the way they are supposed to do them.


Logic A. The best policy is that which allows and encourages the people to be able to better provide for themselves.

Leftism: Those who believe A are greedy, selfish, hate the poor.


Logic: In 1948 Israel was established by the U.N., on a TINY piece of land Jews have occupied for thousands of years and consider The Holy Land, as a homeland for Jews cruelly displaced by WWII and/or persecuted in other places. That became international law.

Leftism: The heirs of the Palestinians have every right to return even though they left so the Arabs could kill all the Jews but the Jews have no right to return to their historical homeland.


Logic: The Supreme Court may rule rightly or wrongly but they are an important concept in separation of powers essential for the Constitution to work effectively.

Leftism: The Supreme Court should have unchallenged ability to make law the leftists want but should be dissolved or packed with leftists and/or disciplined by the President or Congress if it rules in a way the leftists don’t want.


Logic: Biologically/scientifically there are two genders that are sufficiently different that certain customs and policies are proper and necessary for the common good. That people want to be a different gender than they were born does not change that biological fact.

Leftism: People should be able to choose whatever gender they want to be and it should be criminal not to recognize, support, approve, fully integrate and accommodate and use the proper pronouns for whatever they choose to be.


Logic: For a government to be of, for and by the people, the people must be confident that the electoral process and results are honest and secure.

Leftism: No matter how many people mistrust the process and results, it is more important that as many (leftist) people vote as possible and if that results in cheating/illegalities, oh well.


Logic: A free people can live, work, play, think, speak, believe, worship, aspire in peace so long as they do not infringe on anybody else’s unalienable rights. The Founders intended the Constitution to promote that concept for all.

Leftism: The government should have full authority to dictate how people must live, work, think, speak, believe, worship and what choices, options, and opportunities will be available to them.

There are many many more of these examples and it is the OP’s intention that others can be added.

virtue signaler.jpg


Bub...dems don't give a shit about any of that. Because they don't run by logic...they run by virtue signaling and sick brain.

Can this country be saved??

You can't reason with commie dems, bub. So, what are your other options? A guest on one of the YT channels summed up the best conservatives can hope for. He said our goal as conservatives should be 'to conserve the good and improve on the bad.' I believe we have passed the point of no return. A country can go in 3 directions. It can be getting better, staying the same or getting worse. America only goes in 1 direction...getting worse and worse.

Without secession, it is a never-ending battle with the dems. You must accept you are useless to stop them. So, stop playing that game. Let them destroy their part of America. But if you secede you won't have to litigate on a daily basis, defining what a woman is or whether to have police and prisons or fighting confiscation of your guns. In other words, you can conserve the good and improve on the bad.

Stop the madness!

Reps, you've lost...accept it, move on and conserve / save what you can. If you do not accept this, you will eventually lose all 50 states to the commies...perpetually.


liberal brain cure cen.jpg
 
LOGIC vs AMERICAN LEFTISM

Everything written into the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the founding documents, debates, expressed thoughts, concepts, ideas, proposals, and adopted policy was based on logic and reason. The intention was a country of, for and by the people based on liberty with government having as little authority and influence as possible and still have a cohesive and effective country and that would be a guiding light to other countries to become the same.

Logic toward that end was what I believe the Founders would have endorsed and promoted as policy, culture, law, customs. Bottom line their logic was the best America was a strong, secure America with liberty, choices, options, opportunity, prosperity and ability to reach for dreams for all as well be a positive influence in the world.

American Leftism is increasingly antithetical to everything logical that allows for the America the Founders envisioned. It pushes for a government controlled by them to increase their power, authority, influence, and demand what policy, culture, law, customs will be acceptable. And many seem to think a one world government is the ideal

Logic: A small limited government is the key to maximum liberty, opportunity, prosperity.

Leftism: The people are incapable of governing themselves and need a strong government to ensure they do things the way they are supposed to do them.


Logic A. The best policy is that which allows and encourages the people to be able to better provide for themselves.

Leftism: Those who believe A are greedy, selfish, hate the poor.


Logic: In 1948 Israel was established by the U.N., on a TINY piece of land Jews have occupied for thousands of years and consider The Holy Land, as a homeland for Jews cruelly displaced by WWII and/or persecuted in other places. That became international law.

Leftism: The heirs of the Palestinians have every right to return even though they left so the Arabs could kill all the Jews but the Jews have no right to return to their historical homeland.


Logic: The Supreme Court may rule rightly or wrongly but they are an important concept in separation of powers essential for the Constitution to work effectively.

Leftism: The Supreme Court should have unchallenged ability to make law the leftists want but should be dissolved or packed with leftists and/or disciplined by the President or Congress if it rules in a way the leftists don’t want.


Logic: Biologically/scientifically there are two genders that are sufficiently different that certain customs and policies are proper and necessary for the common good. That people want to be a different gender than they were born does not change that biological fact.

Leftism: People should be able to choose whatever gender they want to be and it should be criminal not to recognize, support, approve, fully integrate and accommodate and use the proper pronouns for whatever they choose to be.


Logic: For a government to be of, for and by the people, the people must be confident that the electoral process and results are honest and secure.

Leftism: No matter how many people mistrust the process and results, it is more important that as many (leftist) people vote as possible and if that results in cheating/illegalities, oh well.


Logic: A free people can live, work, play, think, speak, believe, worship, aspire in peace so long as they do not infringe on anybody else’s unalienable rights. The Founders intended the Constitution to promote that concept for all.

Leftism: The government should have full authority to dictate how people must live, work, think, speak, believe, worship and what choices, options, and opportunities will be available to them.

There are many many more of these examples and it is the OP’s intention that others can be added.
Problem you have is the countries that have the best quality of life are to the left of the Democratic Party.

Blue states pay their bills and are happier than Red states who are poorer and more unhealthy.

Social Democracy is the winner internationally and in US domestically...

I know you have your bullshit "logic" up there, but they are bullshit and it is up to you to prove them...

I know you are going to go BUT NO!!! Sorry but facts are in and GOP/MAGA policies have failed... They have failed the red states and have failed in Europe... You want to privatise everything for profit and the citizen gets fucked...
Nothing is absolute but a well balanced Social Democracy is currently the winner...


BTW, US still has a lot of good Social Programs which GOP/MAGA are trying to wreak...

Human Development
This is Red states failures:

And I know some are going to say that people are moving to Texas and Florida, yes of course they are, it is cheaper to retire or you have got educated in a blue state... This is the same reason people retire in Mexico, it's cheap..

 
Pretty much the same thing now. Hell, 95% of "conservatives" I know are leftist. They only ACT conservative when Ds are in power.
Oh baloney. You don’t know what leftist means. Was it Republicans out there burning down cities wearing pink vagina costumes? No.
I’ll agree that there are a few Republicans in Congress that act like liberals occasionally. But few and far between. And, certainly not leftists.
 
What you say is true. Down to the "logic" piece.

At the same time government is necessary to keep big business from doing the kinds of things it did in the early to mid 90's to stamp out competition and coerce the workforce. Less government regulations is not going to prosper those individuals who run the show. They depend on government to protect them.

I worked for a couple of muti-nationals and it was quite clear that they used government and their influence to keep competative and "prosper".

I don't agree with your "logic be damned" statement. The left simply choses to cede more of it's natural rights in exchange for what they consider to be "protection" from certain vagaries. They are not without some proof to an extent. The lapland countries are "socialist" but enjoy a lot of great benenfits because of their government. And they don't hurt for wealth.

I don't want over regulation. What I don't like though is this idea that somehow big business and government are at odds. Together they work to keep us down. And since big business is not part of government, you can't argue that it is just the fault of government.

Logic dictates that some people will game the system and that government has to be scrutinized much more than it is. We allow this to happen because.....logic tell us that far to many are to freaking lazy to care.
Something else I could have added to the original examples, i.e.

Logic: Government serves best when it limits itself to its stated constitutional responsibilities and enacts no more rules and regulations than necessary to allow the various states to function as one cohesive country and to prevent the various states and multi-state entities from doing economic or physical violence to each other.

Leftism: Those who oppose government want to do away with all government services or something equally silly.

I think if you read my post again you will see that I did not say government and big business are at odds with each other. In fact I say the truth is closer to they are in bed with each other. I am not opposed to big business since so much of it makes small business possible. But I am opposed to unnecessary rules and regulations that advantage big business while seriously disadvantaging its smaller competitors.

Lapland/Scandinavian countries are not socialist but capitalist countries with some socialist features. And the largest has a population of a little over 10 million, about the same as Michigan. Denmark has a population smaller than 19 U.S. states. To compare those to the USA is like comparing Muleshoe, TX to New York City. What is appropriate for one is mostly in no way feasible for the other.

But the U.S. states are free to implement as many socialist programs as they want to. It is just unconstitutional for the federal government to do so.
 
Oh baloney. You don’t know what leftist means. Was it Republicans out there burning down cities wearing pink vagina costumes? No.
I’ll agree that there are a few Republicans in Congress that act like liberals occasionally. But few and far between. And, certainly not leftists.
Thats why you guys are rallying around a leftist?
Huge deficits. Giving communities money based on their skin color. Attacks on the 2nd. DACA etc etc etc
:rolleyes:
 
Thats why you guys are rallying around a leftist?
Huge deficits. Giving communities money based on their skin color. Attacks on the 2nd. DACA etc etc etc
:rolleyes:
Oh stop! It’s the Democrats that keep Blacks and Hispanics separate in their ghettos with welfare and Obama phones. Dumb. Trump also put up a DACA progress in which is better than what democrats have and the Democrats voted it down. Democrats have huge deficits. Like what Biden has added and what Obama added.
 
View attachment 974815

Bub...dems don't give a shit about any of that. Because they don't run by logic...they run by virtue signaling and sick brain.

Can this country be saved??

You can't reason with commie dems, bub. So, what are your other options? A guest on one of the YT channels summed up the best conservatives can hope for. He said our goal as conservatives should be 'to conserve the good and improve on the bad.' I believe we have passed the point of no return. A country can go in 3 directions. It can be getting better, staying the same or getting worse. America only goes in 1 direction...getting worse and worse.

Without secession, it is a never-ending battle with the dems. You must accept you are useless to stop them. So, stop playing that game. Let them destroy their part of America. But if you secede you won't have to litigate on a daily basis, defining what a woman is or whether to have police and prisons or fighting confiscation of your guns. In other words, you can conserve the good and improve on the bad.

Stop the madness!

Reps, you've lost...accept it, move on and conserve / save what you can. If you do not accept this, you will eventually lose all 50 states to the commies...perpetually.


View attachment 974817
Careful here. We are in Zone 1 :)

All Americans have to live together with all our nobility, sinfulness, ineptness, right and wrong thinking, successes and mistakes. Yes one segment of the country wants total power to demand conformity and compliance from all the others. That is the left.

The logical want liberty and ability to prevent others from assuming power over them. It takes reasoning, intellectual honesty, critical thinking to figure out how to do that without becoming equally tyrannical in the other direction.

Republicans are often ineffective at times due to infighting, timidness, weakness, wrong headedness, or just plain fecklessness because they are human beings with all the virtues and sometimes feet of clay that goes with being human beings. So much so that our friend Oddball and many others are totally frustrated with them.

But logically, right now they are all we have to represent the logical who want a strong, free, secure, prosperous America with options, opportunity, choices, prosperity for all and they are all we have to prevent a totalitarian minded left from taking over everything.

Republicans might suck but at least they represent those of us who don't want a country that sucks. :)
 
When they caved on the budget that they promised not to cave on, just a day or two before Clinton was going to give in.

Also, that pap they spewed after their "Contract with America" bills got passed and later died in the Senate....They quit fighting and meekly whined "well, we triiiiiiiiied"...Democrats never quit on anything.

I vowed to never ever vote for a republican not named Ron Paul again, and haven't been sorry to this point.
I respect your conclusion though I think it is short sighted. We don't know Clinton was about to give in at that time. They had to measure the figurative pain and suffering to innocent people in order to get their way against demanding their own way. I'm not saying they were right at that time but I think at the time it was a strategic and temporary retreat.

The next year, after I don't remember how many vetoes, they did get Clinton to agree to economic and welfare reforms that literally saved his presidency and turned out to be great for the American people. We did get to the closest thing to a balanced budget in my lifetime.

I probably won't change your mind and I am rather fond of you, you know. That won't change. But just as our legislators have to be willing to find a compromise that folks can best live with at times rather than demand their own way, consider the logical alternative to supporting the Republicans now. If the left is able to dominate the White House and Congress yet again, they will almost surely complete their goal of a totalitarian government.

I will take Republicans who screw up or get timid and weak now and then to that whatever it takes.
 

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