Locke believed citizens were people who owned property

[del]

You've just written a new sig line!

i'm touched.

He is an angel.

of course he is, and i'm della reese.

 

[Toro]

I know the left may not understand this but Locke believed that a citizen was someone who owned property because government was formed to protect the property of each individual within the community therefore the only people who needed government were those that owned property therefore were citizens of that government.

I know it seems barbaric to say that only property owners are citizens but is it really that far fetched of an idea? When I have a dispute with another citizen over something I own I use my government to protect what I think is rightfully mine. It would not seem very plausible to go into a Canadian court and ask them to settle the dispute.

That's a great idea.

If this were 1674.

Why don't we just say "white males who own property are only citizens" and be done with it.

 

[Toro]

Not far fetched at all.

Nobody belongs in the game without a buy-in.

Exactly what is that buy in? Just asking because I pay taxes to the federal government but dont own any property (land).

he's just pathetic.

i love constitutionalists who know nothing about the point of the constitution.

Taxation without representation is a very American concept...

 

[dilloduck]

How about "your vote doesn't mean squat anyway so don't worry about it" ?

 

[del]

How about "your vote doesn't mean squat anyway so don't worry about it" ?

you may be on to something.

feudalism is at least honest about it. serf's up!

 

[JakeStarkey]

John Locke was born during the reign of Charles I (1632) and died in 1704. His philosophy some of our Constitution, but not much of our political beliefs of the 21st century. We view the relationship of citizenship and property much differently today.

 

[Oddball]

Not far fetched at all.

Nobody belongs in the game without a buy-in.

Exactly what is that buy in? Just asking because I pay taxes to the federal government but dont own any property (land).

Nobody paid federal taxes on their productivity back then, and the land ownership requirement was for federal elections. The states made their own election laws insofar as participation was concerned.

At this point, we've been dragged by progressives/socialists so far from the republic set forth, that the men who set it fort would be appalled.

 

[Luissa]

Not far fetched at all.

Nobody belongs in the game without a buy-in.

Exactly what is that buy in? Just asking because I pay taxes to the federal government but dont own any property (land).

Nobody paid federal taxes on their productivity back then, and the land ownership requirement was for federal elections. The states made their own election laws insofar as participation was concerned.

At this point, we've been dragged by progressives/socialists so far from the republic set forth, that the men who set it fort would be appalled.

You do realize not allowing a certain group of people to vote, is pretty much fascism.

 

[Oddball]

Not even.

Are we fascists because eight year olds can't vote?

 

[Toro]

John Locke was born during the reign of Charles I (1632) and died in 1704. His philosophy some of our Constitution, but not much of our political beliefs of the 21st century. We view the relationship of citizenship and property much differently today.

His was a time of aristocracy, where the landed gentry passed property from generation to generation for centuries. Britain was not a meritocracy. It was not a place that embodied "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." It was a class ridden system based on birthright.

Its not 1790 anymore.

 

[Oddball]

In America, you could become part of the gentry through your own efforts, rather than merely being a member of the lucky sperm club...That was the idea.

 

[Toro]

Not even.

Are we fascists because eight year olds can't vote?

We do not allow eight year olds to vote because we recognize that they do not have full rights under the law because they do not have the mental capacity to make all decisions in their best interests.

The idea that people don't have a stake in the system if they don't own property is absolutely ridiculous. Though laws to protect private property are important, it is not physical property that is the primary driver of wealth creation in this country. It is human capital. It is what is peoples' mind. The idea that a Silicon Valley entrepreneur who rents somehow has less invested in the system than some dumbass grade-eight educated hillbilly is bizarre. The richest people in America today are not people who derived their wealth from land like they were 200 years ago. They are people who have created new products.

 

[Toro]

In America, you could become part of the gentry through your own efforts, rather than merely being a member of the lucky sperm club...That was the idea.

As long as you were white and male. That's part of being in the lucky sperm club.

 

[dilloduck]

Not even.

Are we fascists because eight year olds can't vote?

We do not allow eight year olds to vote because we recognize that they do not have full rights under the law because they do not have the mental capacity to make all decisions in their best interests.

The idea that people don't have a stake in the system if they don't own property is absolutely ridiculous. Though laws to protect private property are important, it is not physical property that is the primary driver of wealth creation in this country. It is human capital. It is what is peoples' mind. The idea that a Silicon Valley entrepreneur who rents somehow has less invested in the system than some dumbass grade-eight educated hillbilly is bizarre. The richest people in America today are not people who derived their wealth from land like they were 200 years ago. They are people who have created new products.

Like derivatives ?

 

[jillian]

Not even.

Are we fascists because eight year olds can't vote?

We do not allow eight year olds to vote because we recognize that they do not have full rights under the law because they do not have the mental capacity to make all decisions in their best interests.

The idea that people don't have a stake in the system if they don't own property is absolutely ridiculous. Though laws to protect private property are important, it is not physical property that is the primary driver of wealth creation in this country. It is human capital. It is what is peoples' mind. The idea that a Silicon Valley entrepreneur who rents somehow has less invested in the system than some dumbass grade-eight educated hillbilly is bizarre. The richest people in America today are not people who derived their wealth from land like they were 200 years ago. They are people who have created new products.

Like derivatives ?

like the iPod.

 

[dilloduck]

We do not allow eight year olds to vote because we recognize that they do not have full rights under the law because they do not have the mental capacity to make all decisions in their best interests.

The idea that people don't have a stake in the system if they don't own property is absolutely ridiculous. Though laws to protect private property are important, it is not physical property that is the primary driver of wealth creation in this country. It is human capital. It is what is peoples' mind. The idea that a Silicon Valley entrepreneur who rents somehow has less invested in the system than some dumbass grade-eight educated hillbilly is bizarre. The richest people in America today are not people who derived their wealth from land like they were 200 years ago. They are people who have created new products.

Like derivatives ?

like the iPod.

that was Warren Buffet wasn't it ?

 

[Oddball]

In America, you could become part of the gentry through your own efforts, rather than merely being a member of the lucky sperm club...That was the idea.

As long as you were white and male. That's part of being in the lucky sperm club.

Actually, if you were a woman and your name was on the land patent you could vote....That just didn't happen very often.

Likewise, the 3/5 compromise was made to get the Constitution ratified. It was designed to further perfect the Articles of Confederation, not be to be be-all-end-all.

 

[jillian]

Like derivatives ?

like the iPod.

that was Warren Buffet wasn't it ?

steven jobs

 

[Oddball]

Not even.

Are we fascists because eight year olds can't vote?

We do not allow eight year olds to vote because we recognize that they do not have full rights under the law because they do not have the mental capacity to make all decisions in their best interests.

The idea that people don't have a stake in the system if they don't own property is absolutely ridiculous. Though laws to protect private property are important, it is not physical property that is the primary driver of wealth creation in this country. It is human capital. It is what is peoples' mind. The idea that a Silicon Valley entrepreneur who rents somehow has less invested in the system than some dumbass grade-eight educated hillbilly is bizarre. The richest people in America today are not people who derived their wealth from land like they were 200 years ago. They are people who have created new products.

That's simply ridiculous.

You really think the Silicon Valley entrepreneur is going to remain a tenant when he knows his say-so in the system is at stake?

 

[dilloduck]

like the iPod.

that was Warren Buffet wasn't it ?

steven jobs

and the poor investors that gambled on him