Living on minimum wage, 50s to present

[Uncensored2008]

It is the US's free market capitalism that made it the leading world power and a rich country. You may not like what you hear, but Milton Friedman was exactly right.

The biggest issue this nation faces is that an overwhelming majority are economically illiterate.

Abject ignorance is the foundation that the left in this nation rests upon. If voting required one to pass an introductory economics test, no democrat would ever again be elected.

 

[AmyNation]

Guys, this is a CDZ thread. There are NO put downs, NO name calling, NO flaming allowed.

 

[Dragonlady]

Continue on your path of government dependency, and you run out of other people's money. It's all about personal responsiblity. Anyone can be down and need assistance, but how many people have kids they can't afford and expect the tax payers to pay for them? We have become way too dependent on government. Government should be for necessary infrastructure, not a place to go to solve all your problems.

We are "not on a path to government dependency". Our social programs are funded, Canadian finances are amoung the soundest in the world. We had not bank bailouts because our banks didn't crash. There has been no real estate bubble here.

Our health care expenditures, per capita, are about half of what yours are. Our school system is ranked higher than yours, and our quality of living index is higher. Our corporate taxes are lower than the US, and our infrastructure is in good shape.

Canadians believe that their taxes buy our citizens better opportunities and a better quality of life, and by ever measure, that's true. Look at the quality of life rankings, and all of the countries at the top share similar characteristics: All are social democracies, with strong well-funded education programs, government funded health care, and a vibrant middle class.

Before Reagan and the Presidents in thrall to Freidman capitalism, this also described the US, but since the US began moving to Friedman capitalism, the markets have become more volatile, you have high, sustained levels of unemployment, and the middle class is struggling. Now take a look at Chile, Brazil, and Argentina. There is your future.

 

[HomeInspect]

Continue on your path of government dependency, and you run out of other people's money. It's all about personal responsiblity. Anyone can be down and need assistance, but how many people have kids they can't afford and expect the tax payers to pay for them? We have become way too dependent on government. Government should be for necessary infrastructure, not a place to go to solve all your problems.

We are "not on a path to government dependency". Our social programs are funded, Canadian finances are amoung the soundest in the world. We had not bank bailouts because our banks didn't crash. There has been no real estate bubble here.

Our health care expenditures, per capita, are about half of what yours are. Our school system is ranked higher than yours, and our quality of living index is higher. Our corporate taxes are lower than the US, and our infrastructure is in good shape.

Canadians believe that their taxes buy our citizens better opportunities and a better quality of life, and by ever measure, that's true. Look at the quality of life rankings, and all of the countries at the top share similar characteristics: All are social democracies, with strong well-funded education programs, government funded health care, and a vibrant middle class.

Before Reagan and the Presidents in thrall to Freidman capitalism, this also described the US, but since the US began moving to Friedman capitalism, the markets have become more volatile, you have high, sustained levels of unemployment, and the middle class is struggling. Now take a look at Chile, Brazil, and Argentina. There is your future.

Nah, take a look at Greece.. that's where we are headed with our current government. The programs being "funded" have nothing to do with it. Who do you think is doing the funding? You probably think Obamacare is free too.

 

[Uncensored2008]

We are "not on a path to government dependency". Our social programs are funded, Canadian finances are amoung the soundest in the world. We had not bank bailouts because our banks didn't crash. There has been no real estate bubble here.

Canada is irrelevant to the economic melt down in the United States. Canada enjoys a revenue stream from oil that artificially floats the economy. When the oil runs dry, Canada will crash and burn. Until that time, let them live it up.

Before Reagan and the Presidents in thrall to Freidman capitalism, this also described the US, but since the US began moving to Friedman capitalism, the markets have become more volatile, you have high, sustained levels of unemployment, and the middle class is struggling. Now take a look at Chile, Brazil, and Argentina. There is your future.

You have zero grasp of economics. You toss about names with no grasp of the concepts associated with them. First off, there is not such thing as "Friedman Capitalism." Milton Freidman was of the Chicago economic school, a quasi-classical school of thought. Secondly, Reagan depended on Arthur Laffer, who promoted the quasi-Austrian "Supply Side" policies that led to 30 years of peace time expansion.

Further, you have no clue about the world around you. Chile is remarkably stable and prosperous, economically. (Thanks to Pinochet, love him or hate him.) and Argentina is full on Fascist, though appearing to enjoy economic growth. President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner has retreated to the long Argentine kleptocracy tradition of the Peron dynasty and openly embraced Fascism, yet again.

 

[HomeInspect]

Capitalism vs Socialism.. who knew that 50 years ago, a cartoonist could depict a snake oil salesman 50 years later?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNdoqyuKB44]"Make Mine Freedom" Classic Cartoon of Socialism VS Capitalism - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dragonlady]

It is the US's free market capitalism that made it the leading world power and a rich country. You may not like what you hear, but Milton Friedman was exactly right.

Not it isn't. It's the exploitation of free market economies by American multi-national corporations that has made the US super-rich. The US isn't super-rich. Some of your people are super-rich, but average Americans are not better off than the average wage earner in Canada, the Scandanavian countries, and most of Europe. In fact, quite the contrary. We all have our health care guaranteed, and at a reasonable cost. The same for the education of our young.

And, in an economic downturn such as this one, the chances of your situation improving, are slim and none. The US is turning against Friedman and his toxic vision. The soul of America has voted and the working and middle class aren't buying this snake oil any longer.

Friedman vilified unions and social programs, government regulation, but those countries with all three are the ones who came through the crashing of the world's economy by the US freemarket practices, in good shape.

All of the strong, mixed economies came through the US based recession, much better than any of the free market countries.

 

[Deepbluediver]

We are "not on a path to government dependency". Our social programs are funded, Canadian finances are amoung the soundest in the world. We had not bank bailouts because our banks didn't crash. There has been no real estate bubble here.

Great! Oh, and btw, the U.S. GPD-growth rate isn't so hot right now, but yours hasn't topped 1.5% in over a decade.

Our corporate taxes are lower than the US...

I'm all FOR lower taxes! IMO, the corporate tax rate should be 0%.

Our health care expenditures, per capita, are about half of what yours are. Our school system is ranked higher than yours, and our quality of living index is higher.

Canadian healthcare may offer better results to more people on the lower end of the spectrum, but as far as I know, more Canadians still come to the U.S. when they can't get the care at home than vice versa. Despite us having 10 times the population you do.
Something to do with a shortage of trained medical professionals, right? I wonder where they all went?

And spending or government involement isn't the problem in our education system. Recently here in NYC, there's been success at both cutting costs and improving results by funding charter schools (privately run).
Government-run public education is less than stellar, whereas private schools seem to educate people just fine. Capitalism

Before Reagan and the Presidents in thrall to Freidman capitalism, this also described the US, but since the US began moving to Friedman capitalism, the markets have become more volatile, you have high, sustained levels of unemployment, and the middle class is struggling. Now take a look at Chile, Brazil, and Argentina. There is your future.

I was actually on board with some of what you where saying until I read this. ^

And then went looking and found this. v

What was that about sustained unemployment now?

 

[HomeInspect]

It is the US's free market capitalism that made it the leading world power and a rich country. You may not like what you hear, but Milton Friedman was exactly right.

Not it isn't. It's the exploitation of free market economies by American multi-national corporations that has made the US super-rich. The US isn't super-rich. Some of your people are super-rich, but average Americans are not better off than the average wage earner in Canada, the Scandanavian countries, and most of Europe. In fact, quite the contrary. We all have our health care guaranteed, and at a reasonable cost. The same for the education of our young.

And, in an economic downturn such as this one, the chances of your situation improving, are slim and none. The US is turning against Friedman and his toxic vision. The soul of America has voted and the working and middle class aren't buying this snake oil any longer.

Friedman vilified unions and social programs, government regulation, but those countries with all three are the ones who came through the crashing of the world's economy by the US freemarket practices, in good shape.

All of the strong, mixed economies came through the US based recession, much better than any of the free market countries.

Yet the world still comes to the US when they need the best health care and need it quickly. The snakeoil is what the people voted for recently, as nearly half the people have their hand out in one way or another. There will never likely be a fiscal conservative in office again in my life time, as voters will now go to the polls with the gimmies and hope to elect the givers.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yet the world still comes to the US when they need the best health care and need it quickly. The snakeoil is what the people voted for recently, as nearly half the people have their hand out in one way or another. There will never likely be a fiscal conservative in office again in my life time, as voters will now go to the polls with the gimmies and hope to elect the givers.

Another myth of US health care. Third world countries - yes. First world countries, people tend to stay at home, unless they're in the market for some experimental treatment which is not available outside the US.

What you haven't discussed are the number of Americans taking "medical vacations" for cheaper treatment outside the US.

There hasn't been a fiscal conservative in office yet. All of the Republican administrations have gone hog wild with deficit spending, lying to you that unfettered capitalism would make it all go away.

Every time a free market government has been overthrown, they've been deeply in debt because multinationals and corrupt governments have sucked the wealth out of the country, and the people are left with debt and poverty. The US is headed down that same track, unless you start regulating the multi-nationals and punishing companies for off-shore manufacturing.

 

[HomeInspect]

Yet the world still comes to the US when they need the best health care and need it quickly. The snakeoil is what the people voted for recently, as nearly half the people have their hand out in one way or another. There will never likely be a fiscal conservative in office again in my life time, as voters will now go to the polls with the gimmies and hope to elect the givers.

Another myth of US health care. Third world countries - yes. First world countries, people tend to stay at home, unless they're in the market for some experimental treatment which is not available outside the US.

What you haven't discussed are the number of Americans taking "medical vacations" for cheaper treatment outside the US.

There hasn't been a fiscal conservative in office yet. All of the Republican administrations have gone hog wild with deficit spending, lying to you that unfettered capitalism would make it all go away.

Every time a free market government has been overthrown, they've been deeply in debt because multinationals and corrupt governments have sucked the wealth out of the country, and the people are left with debt and poverty. The US is headed down that same track, unless you start regulating the multi-nationals and punishing companies for off-shore manufacturing.

Ah but you are wrong. I live near Johns Hopkins, one of the best in the world. People are here from Canada, England, Europe, and billionaire shieks from Saudi Arabia. The US is headed down a road of drowning debt. The death from drowning will happen long before a free market takes its wealth. You are right about one thing.. we haven't had a true fiscal conservative.

 

[HomeInspect]

I'll take my chances with US health (pre Obama screwing it up) before a country like.. say England


Cancer Survival Rates



USA

vs.

England



90.5%

Breast Cancer

78.5%



69.9%

Bowel Cancer

51.6%



66.3%

Prostate Cancer

44.8%



62.9%

All Cancers (Female)

52.7%



66.3%

All Cancers (Male)

44.8%



71.18%

OVERALL AVERAGE

54.48%

 

[dblack]

This whole "personal responsibility" mantra has gotten out of hand.

I couldn't agree more. DOWN WITH PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! !!

 

[ReallyMeow]

I worked for a minimum wage of $1.60 back in the early 70's

That must have been terrible, why $1.60 in 1970's dollars only has the buying power of $9.50 today.
Inflation Calculator: Bureau of Labor Statistics

So what's the solution? I'm not being sarcastic or flippant, I'm actually asking because this is a problem I've thought about msyelf. Do we just ban all unhealthy foods? Put a tax on anything below a certain nutrition level? Hand out military-style MRE's instead of EBT cards?

mre's are an incredibly rich foodstuff, its become a problem that people come back from war fat.

no, the first step is to stop subsidizing the unhealthy food, the sugar and corn industrys are notorious for having lucrative govt handouts/favors
High-fructose corn syrup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Agricultural subsidy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We have become way too dependent on government.

the failure of the free market to regulate itself is the cause of that dependency. republicans grand scheme was to get out of the way of the market, to let them spread their wings and fly, unhindered by "needless" oversight. problem is that the market acted like a toddler alone in a room with a cookie jar.

People are here from Canada, England, Europe, and billionaire shieks from Saudi Arabia.

Do you have access to this facility, or does the invisible hand of the market have you going downtown when you break your leg?

 

[HomeInspect]

Quote:
People are here from Canada, England, Europe, and billionaire shieks from Saudi Arabia.
Do you have access to this facility, or does the invisible hand of the market have you going downtown when you break your leg?

No, I work in the buildings these people live in everyday, while they are here getting the best medical services in the world. I interact with them eveyday. next question...

 

[HomeInspect]

We have become way too dependent on government.
the failure of the free market to regulate itself is the cause of that dependency. republicans grand scheme was to get out of the way of the market, to let them spread their wings and fly, unhindered by "needless" oversight. problem is that the market acted like a toddler alone in a room with a cookie jar.

In a way, your anaolgy is correct about the cookie jar. The government has been the cookie jar, and when a toddler finds out the cookies are there and free, he will be forever expecting them.

 

[zeke]

Just what is wrong with a declining standard of living for Americans?

But I got to ask, home inspect. What is it that I have become dependent on government for?

I have multiple homes, tens of thousands of dollars, a job and my wife has a good job. We pay our taxes on time utilizing the same deductions you do.

So tell me, what is it that I get from the US governmet that you don't.

 

[ReallyMeow]

no, we are not in a recession because we feed the hungry and have emergency rooms, the housing market was left to regulate itself and so it committed 22 trillion dollars worth of fraud.

If taxes and all that government support are so good for the economy, then why doesn't the government actually raise taxes that high? Because doing so would crush the economy faster than anything else.

tax rate was 94% coming out of ww2, myth busted

Nah, take a look at Greece.. that's where we are headed with our current government.

Yeah, look at greece, thats what austerity gets you. the republicans debt ceiling crisis's, sequesters and "smaller govt" produces has yielded the same results. Who thinks firing people in a recession is a good thing? republicans.

 

[ConHog]

no, we are not in a recession because we feed the hungry and have emergency rooms, the housing market was left to regulate itself and so it committed 22 trillion dollars worth of fraud.

If taxes and all that government support are so good for the economy, then why doesn't the government actually raise taxes that high? Because doing so would crush the economy faster than anything else.

tax rate was 94% coming out of ww2, myth busted

Nah, take a look at Greece.. that's where we are headed with our current government.

Yeah, look at greece, thats what austerity gets you. the republicans debt ceiling crisis's, sequesters and "smaller govt" produces has yielded the same results. Who thinks firing people in a recession is a good thing? republicans.

I think firing people if you are not realizing a return on your investment is ALWAYS a good decision.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Spoiled rotten.