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[Old Rocks]

http://www.physorg.com/news177258173.html

This mass loss is equally distributed between increased iceberg production, driven by acceleration of Greenland's fast-flowing outlet glaciers, and increased meltwater production at the ice sheet surface. Recent warm summers further accelerated the mass loss to 273 Gt per year (1 Gt is the mass of 1 cubic kilometre of water), in the period 2006-2008, which represents 0.75 mm of global sea level rise per year.

Professor Jonathan Bamber from the University of Bristol and an author on the paper said: "It is clear from these results that mass loss from Greenland has been accelerating since the late 1990s and the underlying causes suggest this trend is likely to continue in the near future. We have produced agreement between two totally independent estimates, giving us a lot of confidence in the numbers and our inferences about the processes".

The Greenland ice sheet contains enough water to cause a global sea level rise of seven metres. Since 2000, the ice sheet has lost about 1500 Gt in total, representing on average a global sea level rise of about half a millimetre per year, or 5 mm since 2000.

 

[Old Rocks]

Greenland Ice Cap Melting In A Hurry, Study Suggests

At the same time that surface melting started to increase around 1996, snowfall on the ice sheet also increased at approximately the same rate, masking surface mass losses for nearly a decade. Moreover, a significant part of the additional melt water refroze in the cold snow
pack that covers the ice sheet. Without these moderating effects, post-1996 Greenland mass loss would have been double the amount of mass loss observed now.

"It is clear from these results that mass loss from Greenland has been accelerating since the late 1990s and the underlying causes suggest this trend is likely to continue in the near future. We have produced agreement between two totally independent estimates, giving us a lot of confidence in the numbers and our inferences about the processes," says co-author Jonathan Bamber from the University of Bristol.

Citation: Michiel van den Broeke, Jonathan Bamber, Janneke Ettema, Eric Rignot, Ernst Schrama, Willem Jan van de Berg, Erik van Meijgaard, Isabella Velicogna, Bert Wouters, 'Partitioning Recent Greenland Mass Loss', Science, November 2009, doi: 10.1126/science.1178176

 

[polarbear]

OldRocks Today, 08:39 PM
Error
Dr Alun Hubbard, leading a team from the universities of Swansea and Aberystwyth said the ice sheet in their region had lowered six metres in just a month.


OldRocks Today, 08:42 PM
Greenland ice sheet losing mass on northwest coast

ScienceDaily (Mar. 24, 2010) — Ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet, which has been increasing during the past decade over its southern region, is now moving up its northwest coast, according to a new international study.

OldRocks Today, 08:43 PM
Greenland ice cap melting faster than ever

This mass loss is equally distributed between increased iceberg production, driven by acceleration of Greenland's fast-flowing outlet glaciers, and increased meltwater production at the ice sheet surface. Recent warm summers further accelerated the mass loss

Even a parrot would have been smart enough to realize the futility. That is more akin to Organ grinding

And snake oil salesmen use the same routine:

There is no cure, because there is no disease You f---ing asshole:

 

[westwall]

OldRocks Today, 08:39 PM
Error
Dr Alun Hubbard, leading a team from the universities of Swansea and Aberystwyth said the ice sheet in their region had lowered six metres in just a month.


OldRocks Today, 08:42 PM
Greenland ice sheet losing mass on northwest coast

ScienceDaily (Mar. 24, 2010) — Ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet, which has been increasing during the past decade over its southern region, is now moving up its northwest coast, according to a new international study.

OldRocks Today, 08:43 PM
Greenland ice cap melting faster than ever

This mass loss is equally distributed between increased iceberg production, driven by acceleration of Greenland's fast-flowing outlet glaciers, and increased meltwater production at the ice sheet surface. Recent warm summers further accelerated the mass loss

Even a parrot would have been smart enough to realize the futility. That is more akin to Organ grinding

And snake oil salesmen use the same routine:

There is no cure, because there is no disease You ******* asshole:

It's allways easy to tell when olfraud got stung He allways posts three or more links to try and rebut whatever it is that proved his religion wrong. Classic and oh so predictable!

 

[Old Rocks]

What you mean is that when presented with real evidence in the language that is spoken on this board, you cannot reply.

 

[polarbear]

I have replied more than let`s see how many posts I made so far strictly on this subject...:
140 Postings, and the majority were from Physics and Chemistry books, Infrared Spectroscopy, Beer-Lambert`s Laws and serious climate data instead of faked data like
Climate of the Arctic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

weather and climate observations from the region tend to be widely spaced and of short duration compared to the midlatitudes and tropic
....blah blah....temperature data was based on best estimates
and:

Estimates of the absolute and average minimum and maximum extent of sea ice in the Arctic as of the mid 1970s

I am just not willing to repeat it over and over again. Like I said You are an organ grinder that simply wants to wear others down till they buy Your snake oil just to shut you up!


Don`t assume that every American is as stupid as You!
They don`t buy You snake oil and Your cure because there is no such disease and there is no such cure
And no matter how many stage props You parade here who play sick( Planet Earth), does not create an alter reality

YOU MORON

 

[polarbear]

Idiots like OldRocks thinks he has "average" intelligence.
Well I say only morons will try and show that random data has a "trend".
So when this scandal busted wide open in Europe:
Forscherskandal: Heißer Krieg ums Klima - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Wissenschaft

1999 gab es eine zweite Klimakurve, geschaffen von den britischen Forschern Keith Briffa und Phil Jones, der das Climatic Research Unit (CRU) an der University of East Anglia leitet. Der Streit zwischen den beiden Gruppen entzündete sich daran, welche Kurve ganz vorne im Uno-Klimareport von 2001 veröffentlicht werden sollte, in der Zusammenfassung für Politiker.

Für den Hockeyschläger sprach seine überzeugende Gestalt: Der einzigartige Temperaturanstieg in den vergangenen 150 Jahren schien den Einfluss des Menschen auf das Klima klar zu belegen.

So there, now the whole world except "OldRocks" knows, that there were 2 climate "curves" and Climatologists chose the "Hockey Stick" curve to be shown to the UN in 2001 because the other one by Briffa & Jones showed absolutely no correlation between CO2 emissions attributed to fossil fuel consumption and temperature data.

Now when confronted this "error" is supposed to be excused since much of the temperature data deals with such small increments that are within the range of random error.

Okay, only a total foll would fall for that, because "Climatology" has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Random error statistics look like this:

With almost the same amounts of dots above and below the mean.
But "Climatology`s" random Errors had zero dots below and all the "random Error" dots [/B] above the line working in favor of their assertions

And that`s supposed to be the real science this moron "OldRocks" keeps organ-grinding here since let`s see:

OldRocks
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, Ore.
Posts: 13,872

over and
over and
over and
over and
over and
over and
over and
over and
over and
and so on again and again and again....

 

[westwall]

Actually olfraud hopes and hopes and hopes that people like me will just get fed up and leave, leaving him the field. Too bad for him we won't:

There I've now used more smilies than any other post I'ver ever done!

 

[rdean]

Can someone post a list of scientific organizations that say that the warming is a fraud? Thank you.

You would have to find a "Republican" scientific organization. So far, I haven't found a single one.

 

[polarbear]

Can someone post a list of scientific organizations that say that the warming is a fraud? Thank you.

You would have to find a "Republican" scientific organization. So far, I haven't found a single one.

I have one for Mathew and all You other guys, actually more than one, most are unfortunately in German but there is this for starters:
E-Mail-Affäre: Untersuchung entlastet Klimaforscher - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Wissenschaft

Untersuchung entlastet Klimaforscher

University of East Anglia: "Keine Hinweise auf absichtliches wissenschaftliches Fehlverhalten"

Ok "absichtlich" = willful and "Fehlverhalten" = well I have to use several words as examples,
1.) Malpractice...
2.)using erroneous Methods
3.) un-professional behavior....well You get the drift?
German is a very precise language, that`s why most guys that study math or physics also study German and most would not notice
that this statement in effect says, they are guilty of 1.) 2.) and 3.) the only thing that they have not been proven guilty if is the "WILFULL"



Okay,this "man made GW" clusterfuck had been investigated for perpetrating willful fraud, but that could not be proven...
Because of the "Random Errror" cop out...I have no idea why they let them get away with that

Im Zentrum der Aufmerksamkeit steht der schweigsame CRU-Chef Phil Jones. Hat er Daten manipuliert? Hat er mit Kollegen daran gearbeitet, Kritiker mundtot zu machen? Nun hat ein weiteres unabhängiges Gremium seinen Bericht vorgelegt - und Jones vom Vorwurf wissenschaftlichen Fehlverhaltens weitgehend freigesprochen.

And the key figure Phil Jones had been pleading the fifth, and remains silent, but this leaves the question unanswered if he had manipulated data and silenced critics.
So he is still presumed to be "innocent"

But only PRESUMED, because this has also come crashing down on "global warming" since then..funny how silent the media is here... nothing at all, You should think CNN would report such a MASSIVE SCANDAL:

Die Gruppe unter Lord Ronald Oxbourgh, dem ehemaligen Chef des Wissenschafts- und Technologieausschusses des britischen Oberhauses, war von der University of East Anglia beauftragt worden. Im Blickpunkt sollten die Forschungsarbeiten der CRU-Wissenschaftler und die darin angewandten wissenschaftlichen Methoden stehen. Aspekte wie das Zurückhalten von Informationen, für das Jones und seine Mitarbeiter sowohl von einem Ausschuss des britischen Parlaments als auch vom britischen Information Commissioner's Office gerügt worden waren,

Okay, The chief commissioner of the upper British House branch for Science and Technology had ordered an investigation into the methods used by the CRU scientists who had presented this false data to investigate willful fraud.
And the British Parliament has in a session publicly condemned this group for withholding evidence and refusing to cooperate in the investigation.

So...there is LOTS more...but it`s a pain in the neck to translate all by my lonesome...and typing was never my favorite pastime.

At least we know one this for certain in Europe, that these ***** kept 2 sets of books!
Holy shit You should see what happens to a truck driver if they catch him with 2 log book pages for the same trip...
I drove truck in my time off from the military and in Billings Montana the bastard went through my garbage bag in my truck and found a crumpled log sheet for the same day as the one I just showed im in the "chicken coup" office...that cost me $400 cash right then and there!
And all the $$ for the extra Diesel I burnt while speeding (68 liters per 100 klicks) was down the toilet, because he made me take a "rest" for 8 hours.
Why are they handling these bastards with velvet gloves...look at the massive and costly **** up they have caused in the meantime
$ 5.60 for fuel at the pumps in Europe...~40% of that is "Eco-Tax" for "greener technology"

 

[polarbear]

@Westwall, You dad was a trucker, I bet he can relate to that.
After 8 hours staying put in Billings I felt like doing a "Hector" when I got out on the interstate again..

http://www.youtube.com/user/reztirpswbb#p/a/u/0/bXdX6sxHK9w

Just kidding we all play with ideas like that but we don`t really shoot the ref in a hockey game !...like Hector did

But if I knew what car OldRocks drives I`m not quite so sure!

 

[skookerasbil]

Heres the poop...........the bottom line stinky poop. America has a 14 trillion dollar debt. Eventually.......and this is a 100% certainty.........inflation and a devalued dollar will cause all Americans to pay attention because they will need to do it to survive as a family. One of the first things they'll look at is energy costs. In other words, which form of energy can be had that is the most efficient and most cost effective? It will trump all environmental BS that is keeping the nation from drilling in areas that need to be drilled. Self preservation will trump k00k idealism as it always does when lives are at stake.........when peoples way of life has been turned upside down. You think people are going to give a rats ass that the ocean has raised 2cm's when they cant put food on the table?? Only the nutballs will still hang on to that..........but they will be political fossils. Imagine the chances of government credits for solar panels during a depression? Laughable.........there will be none because they will be deemed assinine by the public. People will 100% embrace only what is tangible, realistic and cost effective.


And you think the environmental k00ks are pissed about big oil profits now??? Holy shit......they aint seen NOTHING like they will see in coming years. We will soon see a time when debates on "global warming" are a footnote in history.

I guess for now, LIST games are good fun entertainment!!

 

[Old Rocks]

Simple fact is, Bipolar cannot find a single scientific organization to back his nonsense, and resorts to posting in German. There are plenty of organizations that state global warming is a fraud. Unfortunetly they are all political organizations, or funded by Exxon-Mobile. By the way, what does the Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher have to say concerning global warming?

 

[Old Rocks]

@Westwall, You dad was a trucker, I bet he can relate to that.
After 8 hours staying put in Billings I felt like doing a "Hector" when I got out on the interstate again..

http://www.youtube.com/user/reztirpswbb#p/a/u/0/bXdX6sxHK9w

Just kidding we all play with ideas like that but we don`t really shoot the ref in a hockey game !...like Hector did

But if I knew what car OldRocks drives I`m not quite so sure!

Really? You are that defenseless in this debate? Typical Conservative.

 

[westwall]

Simple fact is, Bipolar cannot find a single scientific organization to back his nonsense, and resorts to posting in German. There are plenty of organizations that state global warming is a fraud. Unfortunetly they are all political organizations, or funded by Exxon-Mobile. By the way, what does the Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher have to say concerning global warming?

The simple fact is the english language based media is not reporting what is going on. Der Spiegel is one of the best magazines on the planet and when they discovered they had been duped they decided to run with it. Eventually their reporting will make it into the general media. olfraud, you can post as many stupid lists as you wish, but there is one fact that no matter how much you whine and snivel and make crap up will not change, AGW as a religion is failing.

Cap and Tax is dead, the EPA is having to legislate by fiat and they will soon be put down. Gores CCX is done, it's closed shop and left the game. International carbon trading is toast as well.

Get used to it.

 

[westwall]

@Westwall, You dad was a trucker, I bet he can relate to that.
After 8 hours staying put in Billings I felt like doing a "Hector" when I got out on the interstate again..

http://www.youtube.com/user/reztirpswbb#p/a/u/0/bXdX6sxHK9w

Just kidding we all play with ideas like that but we don`t really shoot the ref in a hockey game !...like Hector did

But if I knew what car OldRocks drives I`m not quite so sure!

Really? You are that defenseless in this debate? Typical Conservative.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[polarbear]

Heres the poop...........the bottom line stinky poop. America has a 14 trillion dollar debt. Eventually.......and this is a 100% certainty.........inflation and a devalued dollar will cause all Americans to pay attention because they will need to do it to survive as a family. One of the first things they'll look at is energy costs. In other words, which form of energy can be had that is the most efficient and most cost effective? It will trump all environmental BS that is keeping the nation from drilling in areas that need to be drilled. Self preservation will trump k00k idealism as it always does when lives are at stake.........when peoples way of life has been turned upside down. You think people are going to give a rats ass that the ocean has raised 2cm's when they cant put food on the table?? Only the nutballs will still hang on to that..........but they will be political fossils. Imagine the chances of government credits for solar panels during a depression? Laughable.........there will be none because they will be deemed assinine by the public. People will 100% embrace only what is tangible, realistic and cost effective.


And you think the environmental k00ks are pissed about big oil profits now??? Holy shit......they aint seen NOTHING like they will see in coming years. We will soon see a time when debates on "global warming" are a footnote in history.

I guess for now, LIST games are good fun entertainment!!

You got it exactly right...I think

I am beginning to suspect that this bastard Bilderberg Group that meets every Year with the finance ministers of the theG?how many now and every US treasury behind closed doors has long made plans for a new currency.
It came to light @ Wikileaks last Year that it was at a Bilderberg meeting that the Euro was slated to be a common currency in Europe, long before the public heard that from the politiciens in France,Germany, Spain etc..

It used to be that our bucks & Reichmarks and D-Marks were backed by Gold. Then the banksters had a better idea and backed it with Paper, called T-bills, which cost no more than what ink and pares costs...and since then the derivative cheats like Goldman Sachs etc. had a wide open road creating fantasy Millions out of thin air
Except now it`s time to pay the piper.
So, look at the price of gold now!...no way can we go back there. But there is something else which very likely will be the new collateral behind a currency, the Kilowatt Hour!
And all the greenhouse gas hype shooting down cheap energy fits the bill.
Because the countries that sit on oceans of crude oil reserves have to be excluded first from the new and better fodder troth for these greedy pigs!
Of course Your fireplace & firewood CO2 spewing has to quit as well. if You could get Your KVA hours yourself in the woods like grandpa did, that would be the same as moonshine making or printing your own money, and You did not buy Your "CO2" credits at the brand new stock exchange first to make that legal!
Guess what..! In Germany that is already a law!...That`s why You don`t need a crystal ball to see the future.
All it takes is to watch where this swindle has alreadygone beyond the point of no return.
And they already had huge corruption scandals with their CO2 credits exchange, the Italian/Sicilian Mafia have that already cornered.
They don`t miss a trick either...remember how Al Capone got rich...with Booze smuggling...of course he wound up in the slammer, Banksters & Government hate competition!
I should go dig out the Headlines that made in Europe.
I am willing to register a bet at Lloyd`s in London right now at 5:1 odds against anybody who is willing to bet against that!
Any takers?

I came back here these scams have been in full swing for quite some time already, and I managed to find an example published in English..in a New York second just by Googling for "CO2 credit trading scam":
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,665594,00.html

Fraudulent Emissions-Trading Schemes Rob German Tax Authorities

The Kyoto Protocol introduced a scheme for trading emissions certificates as a way to help reduce CO2 emissions. German tax authorities are now investigating almost 40 companies that traded certificates for allegedly taking advantage of loopholes in sales tax laws to bilk the taxman out of hundreds of millions of euros.

German Environment Minister Norbert Röttgen has hardly been in office for much more than a month, but he's already choosing his words for dramatic effect. "It's about the way we live, and it's about survival," Röttgen said last Thursday before the German parliament, the Bundestag, referring to the climate summit beginning Monday in Copenhagen. At the summit, the nations of the world will search for ways to reduce the CO2 emissions behind global warming. One of the tools to be discussed is the trading of emissions certificates.

In Germany, though, it is precisely this instrument that is causing a huge headache for Röttgen, as dozens of tax offices across the country are investigating shady emissions trading companies. All of the companies in question maintain accounts with the German Emissions Trading Authority (DEHSt), an arm of the ministry Röttgen heads. According to DEHSt head Hans-Jürgen Nantke, since September, his agency has "received official requests for assistance in cases relating to suspected sales tax fraud from various regional tax offices and tax investigation offices."

See, that`s the way to finance Obama`s pipe dreams...and hey, he did not lie if he promised no tax increases...because he invented a whole new revenue source...
Why would America want to follow the footsteps of born loosers! and copy Europeans.
You guys did just fine without them after You kicked the British out

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmm...... The OP was about who states what concerning global warming, not about the financial dealing of either side. Now if you can point out a scientific society that states that AGW is a fraud, why are don't you do that? All the yap-yap about Al Gore and cap and trade is just red herring attempts to divert attention from the fact that virtually the whole of the scientific community states that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger.

 

[westwall]

Hmmm...... The OP was about who states what concerning global warming, not about the financial dealing of either side. Now if you can point out a scientific society that states that AGW is a fraud, why are don't you do that? All the yap-yap about Al Gore and cap and trade is just red herring attempts to divert attention from the fact that virtually the whole of the scientific community states that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger.

The only yapper is you Cap and tax, toast, CCX, toast, EPA, looking to be defunded. Yep it's looking real good for you boys.

 

[Old Rocks]

No, the EPA will not be defunded, no more than the Health Care Bill was repealed. The Conservatives will just continue to make fools of themselves. You are an excellant example of that.