Libertarians Are The True Political Moderates

[Contumacious]

But as a member of our society, you would be faced with laws that do not meet your objectives. You can't always get what you want as a libertarian. How do you propose we deal with laws you do not agree with?

Laws are laws - we all have to follow them whether we agree with them or not. That's why making sure those laws are just, and limited to situations where the conformity of law is truly necessary, is so important.

This is why I keep coming back to a clear understanding of the purpose of government and laws. The libertarian perspective is that government exists for the purpose of protecting our freedom and, as much as practical, should be limited to that function.
But you, and many others here, seem to see the government as kind of the all-purpose 'boss' of society - a tool for making any important decisions for society and then mandating conformity. That's what we libertarians reject.

As a libertarian, that is what you believe the purpose of government is limited to

As a citizen, you are free to vote for those who support your views. Other citizens who believe their government has wider responsibilities will vote for those who support their views

Personally, I want a government that does what needs doing, not one that is constrained by some meaningless "small government" restrictions

Unfortunately, my government will make NO demands from you.

Your government in th other hand will make demands from me. Your government will demand that I be my brothers' keepers. Your government will demand that I pay so that the military can engage in expensive and useless wars.

.

 

[Dad2three]

Isn't that the definition of "extremists" for ANY ideology?

Not if you're ideologically a Moderate.

If you read the Libertarian Party platform, you see plenty of extreme positions, on guns for example, or on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs, but,

when you confront self-identifying Libertarians with these extremist positions the usual response is well, the platform doesn't necessarily represent Libertarians, so my conclusion is, if you can't define a Libertarian, you can't define Libertarianism as Moderate.

I suppose Democrats are all moderates.

Obama sure is!



Lower tax burden on the 'job creators' than Reagan's first 6 years. WAY less executive orders than Reagan

Executive Orders




Cap and Trade: This, of course, has not passed. However, this used to be a Republican idea.


FREE TRADE?


Vote Moderate Republican: Vote Obama

Vote Moderate Republican: Vote Obama

 

[rightwinger]

As a libertarian, that is what you believe the purpose of government is limited to

As a citizen, you are free to vote for those who support your views. Other citizens who believe their government has wider responsibilities will vote for those who support their views

Personally, I want a government that does what needs doing, not one that is constrained by some meaningless "small government" restrictions

The powers of government aren't subject to majority rule. That's the point of a constitution - to establish the purpose and scope of government, and set clear limits on just what the majority is allowed to force on the minority. That's what makes consenting to democracy viable. Otherwise it's a blank check, and no sane person would agree to it.

Bingo.

The powers of the Goverernment is established in the Constitution. The scope of legislation passed is based on the will of We the People. Article 1, Section 1 gives Congress the power to pass laws. They have been doing so for 225 years

 

[rightwinger]

Laws are laws - we all have to follow them whether we agree with them or not. That's why making sure those laws are just, and limited to situations where the conformity of law is truly necessary, is so important.

This is why I keep coming back to a clear understanding of the purpose of government and laws. The libertarian perspective is that government exists for the purpose of protecting our freedom and, as much as practical, should be limited to that function.
But you, and many others here, seem to see the government as kind of the all-purpose 'boss' of society - a tool for making any important decisions for society and then mandating conformity. That's what we libertarians reject.

As a libertarian, that is what you believe the purpose of government is limited to

As a citizen, you are free to vote for those who support your views. Other citizens who believe their government has wider responsibilities will vote for those who support their views

Personally, I want a government that does what needs doing, not one that is constrained by some meaningless "small government" restrictions

Unfortunately, my government will make NO demands from you.

Your government in th other hand will make demands from me. Your government will demand that I be my brothers' keepers. Your government will demand that I pay so that the military can engage in expensive and useless wars.

.

We are talking about OUR Government as established by We the People. The greatest government in the history of mankind

Those "demands"have put a man on the moon, rescued the world in WWII, funded medical research, technology innovations, safe food and water supplies.....

Few of which would have been achieved by a libertarian government

 

[kaz]

The powers of government aren't subject to majority rule. That's the point of a constitution - to establish the purpose and scope of government, and set clear limits on just what the majority is allowed to force on the minority. That's what makes consenting to democracy viable. Otherwise it's a blank check, and no sane person would agree to it.

Bingo.

The powers of the Goverernment is established in the Constitution. The scope of legislation passed is based on the will of We the People. Article 1, Section 1 gives Congress the power to pass laws. They have been doing so for 225 years

Until Obama and the Democrats obliterated a GOP controlled House just because they can. Look, Man, you can be happy that your party spayed an elected House of Representatives. What you cannot do is claim that after that happened and you cheered, rule of law or majority means anything to you.

 

[Dad2three]

Bingo.

The powers of the Goverernment is established in the Constitution. The scope of legislation passed is based on the will of We the People. Article 1, Section 1 gives Congress the power to pass laws. They have been doing so for 225 years

Until Obama and the Democrats obliterated a GOP controlled House just because they can. Look, Man, you can be happy that your party spayed an elected House of Representatives. What you cannot do is claim that after that happened and you cheered, rule of law or majority means anything to you.

What nonsense are you spouting now?

 

[Contumacious]

As a libertarian, that is what you believe the purpose of government is limited to

As a citizen, you are free to vote for those who support your views. Other citizens who believe their government has wider responsibilities will vote for those who support their views

Personally, I want a government that does what needs doing, not one that is constrained by some meaningless "small government" restrictions

Unfortunately, my government will make NO demands from you.

Your government in th other hand will make demands from me. Your government will demand that I be my brothers' keepers. Your government will demand that I pay so that the military can engage in expensive and useless wars.

.

We are talking about OUR Government as established by We the People. The greatest government in the history of mankind

Those "demands"have put a man on the moon, rescued the world in WWII, funded medical research, technology innovations, safe food and water supplies.....

Few of which would have been achieved by a libertarian government

A government big enough to give to you is big enough to take away from you.

"WE THE PEOPLE" did NOT authorize the government to put a man on the moon, to rescue the world in WWII, to fund medical research, to promote technology innovations, nor ensure safe food and water supplies.....

If there is a need for a program then the FREE MARKET would have provided it.

.

 

[rightwinger]

Bingo.

The powers of the Goverernment is established in the Constitution. The scope of legislation passed is based on the will of We the People. Article 1, Section 1 gives Congress the power to pass laws. They have been doing so for 225 years

Until Obama and the Democrats obliterated a GOP controlled House just because they can. Look, Man, you can be happy that your party spayed an elected House of Representatives. What you cannot do is claim that after that happened and you cheered, rule of law or majority means anything to you.

Capt Hyperbole chimes in again

 

[rightwinger]

Unfortunately, my government will make NO demands from you.

Your government in th other hand will make demands from me. Your government will demand that I be my brothers' keepers. Your government will demand that I pay so that the military can engage in expensive and useless wars.

.

We are talking about OUR Government as established by We the People. The greatest government in the history of mankind

Those "demands"have put a man on the moon, rescued the world in WWII, funded medical research, technology innovations, safe food and water supplies.....

Few of which would have been achieved by a libertarian government

A government big enough to give to you is big enough to take away from you.

"WE THE PEOPLE" did NOT authorize the government to put a man on the moon, to rescue the world in WWII, to fund medical research, to promote technology innovations, nor ensure safe food and water supplies.....

If there is a need for a program then the FREE MARKET would have provided it.

.

Do I need to explain voting to you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Libertarians Are The True Political Moderates

Too laughable.

 

[Contumacious]

We are talking about OUR Government as established by We the People. The greatest government in the history of mankind

Those "demands"have put a man on the moon, rescued the world in WWII, funded medical research, technology innovations, safe food and water supplies.....

Few of which would have been achieved by a libertarian government

A government big enough to give to you is big enough to take away from you.

"WE THE PEOPLE" did NOT authorize the government to put a man on the moon, to rescue the world in WWII, to fund medical research, to promote technology innovations, nor ensure safe food and water supplies.....

If there is a need for a program then the FREE MARKET would have provided it.

.

Do I need to explain voting to you?

In a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC rights are secured by the document. The Constitution is amended as provided therein , not by parasitic majorities nor 5-4 rulings by the so-called SCOTUS.

.

 

[rightwinger]

A government big enough to give to you is big enough to take away from you.

"WE THE PEOPLE" did NOT authorize the government to put a man on the moon, to rescue the world in WWII, to fund medical research, to promote technology innovations, nor ensure safe food and water supplies.....

If there is a need for a program then the FREE MARKET would have provided it.

.

Do I need to explain voting to you?

In a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC rights are secured by the document. The Constitution is amended as provided therein , not by parasitic majorities nor 5-4 rulings by the so-called SCOTUS.

.

It is frustrating enough to try to talk logically to a libertarian. But the only reason you claim to be libertarian is that you do not want to admit to being an anarchist

 

[eagle1462010]

Do I need to explain voting to you?

In a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC rights are secured by the document. The Constitution is amended as provided therein , not by parasitic majorities nor 5-4 rulings by the so-called SCOTUS.

.

It is frustrating enough to try to talk logically to a libertarian. But the only reason you claim to be libertarian is that you do not want to admit to being an anarchist

Anyone who disagrees with your view is an anarchist in your mind. Typical Liberal BS.

It's your way or the highway, and anyone on your side who doesn't toe the line watch out.

That's Tyrannical in nature.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Majority can't take away RIGHTS. Get a grip





The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal Principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections. Justice Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia Board of Education vs. Barnette, 1943

Take that up with the guy that says the majority is always right, not me. Or are you so stupid you think I support taking away rights?

Got it, You'll stick to argue false premises

False premise? Which false premise am I arguing, oh he who thinks he knows everything?

For the record, what I actually did was point out that NYCaribiner contradicted himself. Not sure how you manage to shoehorn that into whatever your definition of a false premise is, but feel free to amuse the board with your superior stupidity.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

lol, Weird, ignore EVERYTHING else that they said about Romney care, and hold onto right wing talking points



I'll make it simple for you



LIKE SS, MEDICARE, LABOR LAWS, MIN WAGE LAWS, ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS, ETC, EVERYTHING CONSERVATIVES/LIBERTARIANS FOUGHT AGAINST, ACA IS HERE TO STAY

Keep telling yourself that. The more people learn about, the more people hate it.

Sure, and single payer H/C in EVERY industrialized nation is failing too? That's why the opponents of it can't come up with ONE poll EVER that ANY nation with UHC wants to get rid of it or get US style H/C...lol

Could that be because no one ever asks?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not if you're ideologically a Moderate.

If you read the Libertarian Party platform, you see plenty of extreme positions, on guns for example, or on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs, but,

when you confront self-identifying Libertarians with these extremist positions the usual response is well, the platform doesn't necessarily represent Libertarians, so my conclusion is, if you can't define a Libertarian, you can't define Libertarianism as Moderate.

I suppose Democrats are all moderates.

Obama sure is!



Lower tax burden on the 'job creators' than Reagan's first 6 years. WAY less executive orders than Reagan

Executive Orders




Cap and Trade: This, of course, has not passed. However, this used to be a Republican idea.


FREE TRADE?


Vote Moderate Republican: Vote Obama

Vote Moderate Republican: Vote Obama

**** off, idiot. All of these stupid claims were debunked years ago right here on this board. Feel free to look them up and educate yourself on how stupid you are.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The powers of government aren't subject to majority rule. That's the point of a constitution - to establish the purpose and scope of government, and set clear limits on just what the majority is allowed to force on the minority. That's what makes consenting to democracy viable. Otherwise it's a blank check, and no sane person would agree to it.

Bingo.

The powers of the Goverernment is established in the Constitution. The scope of legislation passed is based on the will of We the People. Article 1, Section 1 gives Congress the power to pass laws. They have been doing so for 225 years

I am sure you think you made a point, even if only the idiots actually get it.

 

[JWBooth]

go kill yourself, you psycho **** nutjob.

Cuntumacious.....big GOV means a big IRS in everyone's life, high taxes, large regulatory agencies messing with people/companies, large GOV departments like Education wasting people's money, etc.

Dingle Berry:

Are you aware that we are spending over THREE TRILLION $$$$$$ supporting the military?

Are you aware that the military is used as a cover for many welfare state policies?

Are you aware that the military is used nowadays for imperialism, nation building , supporting regimes which are allied with the US even though they may tyrannize their people, ie, the Shah of Iran, Salvador Allende, etc.

.

Take your own advice cockgobbler.

 

[JWBooth]

Libertarians want government limited to those functions which only government can do. Most of us would generally agree with police, military, civil and criminal courts, roads, management of limited resources and recognition of property rights. I am not referring to anarchists who want no government here who like calling themselves libertarians, I am referring to the masses of us who want government limited, not eliminated.

Fiscal polices. We want taxes, but we want them low, flat and for the good of the people as a whole and not used for income redistribution. The left are the extremists here not only punishing success and harming employers, but even using tax COLLECTION as a welfare program with refundable tax credits. We are moderates, taxes should be reasonable and to fund the government, not implement social policy. And spending should be within our means.

Social policies. Socons go to church (or other religious institutions) then go to government to implement morality by force. Clearly they are the extremists. Libertarians believe they should have the right to persuade people to live moral lives, they should not have the right to force their morality on them. We are, the moderates.

NeoCons. We want the military used for the defense of the United States. We don't want to be policeman to the world like the right, we also don't blame our troops for the failures of our politicians like the left. And we don't want them in everyone's back yard, like both sides do. We are moderates, protect and defend, don't use force to make other's decisions just like we don't want government making our decisions here.

Republicans and Democrats are just so deep into the question of what government can do to impose their social and fiscal wills on us, they have stopped even asking the question, should government even do that? Do we have the right to make that choice for everyone and use force to impose it on all our citizens? Libertarians are the moderates, that is the first question we ask, that is the right question to answer before proceeding any further.

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

Geeze counter boy, you really are trying to prove yourself to be the dumbest **** ever to operate a keyboard.

 

[RWHeathenGamer]