Liberal logic on IDs and voting

[ClosedCaption]

What about Melowese Richardson? She voted six times for obammy.
So tell me how she would have managed that with her name already in the system?


And if there is one Melowese,you can bet there are thousands.

No, you cannot assume there are thousands. Illogical.

How would Voter ID have stopped this? It wouldn't.

She was a poll worker. She used her position to cast those fraudulent votes.

So you catch two drug dealers in chicago,I guess you got em all,right?
The war on drugs is over now right?

If she voted using her ID,her name would be in the system. If an ID is required for each and every vote,how could she have done that?
What a naive fool you are.

Asking rhetorical question may seem like you made a point but you didn't.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

voting is a right, these other things are not. yay end thread of retard

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Aaaaaaand...we circle back to where the topic started.

Apparently Voter ID proponents really do think uttering a tired logical fallacy again and again will make it true with repetition.

Tell us why you are so vehemently opposed to ID requirements. If you can get a damn Obama phone, you can get an ID card. It is common since to carry an ID with you in case of an emergency.

Explain how no ID requirement does not encourage fraud. If you don't think that there is fraud, and that having an ID requirement is not a mechanism to discourage it, you are stupid. You are opposed to it because it gives liberals an advantage - that is lucid!

Obama phone? We still call them Bush phones around here.Since the program began under GOP watch.

Bush gave them land lines for emergency use. Not cell phones which are sold for drug money.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I just find it really bizarre people who think they are conservatives are demanding completely unnecessary new laws and government intervention which will do absolutely nothing to stop voter fraud and which only succeeds in making it more difficult to exercise a constitutional right. I find this obession with identity papers very troubling.

Our country is being hijacked by totalitarians left and right.

No new laws are being proposed. just show that same ID to vote that you showed to register. Why is that a problem?

Getting the ID.
Getting the ID challenged at the polling station.
Not enough workers to check.

Uh...you used an ID to register,where did it go?
If they use a card reader it wont be a problem. How often does your credit card fail?
See above...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

No, you cannot assume there are thousands. Illogical.

How would Voter ID have stopped this? It wouldn't.

She was a poll worker. She used her position to cast those fraudulent votes.

So you catch two drug dealers in chicago,I guess you got em all,right?
The war on drugs is over now right?

If she voted using her ID,her name would be in the system. If an ID is required for each and every vote,how could she have done that?
What a naive fool you are.

Asking rhetorical question may seem like you made a point but you didn't.

Saying there is only one Melowese is downright stupid and you know it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

voting is a right, these other things are not. yay end thread of retard

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

 

[Redfish]

voting is a right, these other things are not. yay end thread of retard

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

 

[g5000]

Actually that's been a well discussed basis of a bunch of liberal lawsuits. You should learn more about the subject before pontificating.

You should provide links. I don't believe you. I am intimately familiar with this subject. Nice try.

The only lawsuits have been to prevent IMPROPER maintenance of registration rolls. I have pointed those out in the past. In fact, one of the halts to an improper purge was initiated by a Republican county commissioner in Florida.

A distinction without a difference.

Wow. You think properly maintaining and improperly maintaining voter registration rolls is the same thing?

You people are seriously fucked in the head.

 

[Redfish]

You should provide links. I don't believe you. I am intimately familiar with this subject. Nice try.

The only lawsuits have been to prevent IMPROPER maintenance of registration rolls. I have pointed those out in the past. In fact, one of the halts to an improper purge was initiated by a Republican county commissioner in Florida.

A distinction without a difference.

Wow. You think properly maintaining and improperly maintaining voter registration rolls is the same thing?

You people are seriously fucked in the head.

the term "you People" is racist and not polically correct. YOU are a racist, expect a verbal repremand from the obama thought police.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

Oh the "if it aint perfect, its pointless" defense. Voting isn't about intelligence either. You're all over the place

 

[g5000]

Security of the voting system is extremely important. With billions of dollars being spent on election campaigns, one would think that reasonable steps to detect and prevent voter fraud should be taken.

First, the voter registration process should be secure. The majority of people should have to register in person with documentation to prove citizenship and address at a properly staffed voter registration office. If someone is so handicapped that going to the voter registration office is not reasonable, then a case worker who is employed by the voters registration office so go out and register such voter by request. Most people will have a driver's license that can serve as a picture ID for voting; otherwise a picture ID should be issued by the voter registration office.

Voters should not be able to register by simply filling out a form and mailing it in, or by doing an unverifiable form online. In person verification is critical. One person -- one vote. If Mickey Mouse is able to register to vote, there is a problem. If partisan groups want to have voter registration drives, then they need to drive those people to the voters registration office to get registered.

Voting should be performed at official polling places where ID can be verified. Those too handicapped to go to polling places should be able to request an athorized case worker to visit them to collect their votes.

Unverifiable mail in ballets should not be allowed. Our military should have a verifiable system for casting their votes.

There is not a lot of voter fraud going on. There certainly is not enough going on to swing elections. Those who do commit fraud cast an extra vote or so. Why? Who knows. It has no effect on the outcome. Such people are just plain stupid.

Now someone is going to come along and say I believe NO voter fraud is going on. Disregard such people.

Anyway, the small amount of voter fraud suggests our system is nowhere near as broken as Voter ID proponents imagine it is.

I agree our registration system needs to be properly managed. I have repeatedly said so in this topic. When someone dies, there needs to be a mechanism which removes them from the voter registration rolls. When someone moves, there needs to be a mechanism to remove them from the rolls.

Everything hinges on the voter registration. When it is properly managed, Voter ID is completely unnecessary. Voter ID is as useless as a kickstand on a tank. A waste of the voters' time and taxpayers' money. It is more government red tape.

We have managed to hold elections for over two centuries without Voter ID, and there are very few historical examples of fraud on a scale large enough to change the outcome of an election, and no case of fraud which changed the outcome of a Presidential one.

Perhaps the single most effective fraud in our history was the one which got LBJ elected to the US Senate. But Voter ID would not have prevented that, either.

You said something about the military. I can tell you exactly how absentee registration works in the military since I am retired military.

You have to send away for a form several months before the election. Then you fill out the form and a superior officer has to sign it to validate your information and legitimacy as a voter.

Then you mail that in, and a few weeks before the election you get your ballot.

It's a tremendous nuisance, but I did it for 20 years that way.

But that is not how it works in the civilian world. Most people would not tolerate a process as difficult as that.

Voter ID in an of itself will do little to prevent voter fraud. However, if a voter system is not designed to prevent and detect voter fraud, saying that there is not a problem with fraud is like the owner of a night club saying that his club doesn't have a problem with underage drinkers when he has no ID check. And without the proper verifications, how will anyone know after the fact.

This the third time in this topic the same logical fallacy has been repeated. You guys seem to think saying the same thing over and over makes it true.

There is only one way for a bar owner to verify someone's age, and that is with an ID.

However, presenting an ID at the voting booth is not the only and best way to prevent voter fraud. So you people are comparing apples to oranges.

And I predicted someone would come along and say I claimed there was no voter fraud, and there you are.

I have not said there is no voter fraud. In fact, I plainly said there is. What you can't seem to get into your heads is that there is no case of voter fraud where you can prove Voter ID was the only way to prevent or stop it. You cannot get over this very low bar. All you have are imaginary fantasies that do not occur in real life.

Examples of real voter fraud:

Absentee ballot fraud. Voter ID won't stop it.

Registered to vote in more than one precinct. Voter ID won't stop it.

Poll worker marking ballots for her favorite candidate. Voter ID won't stop it.

Dead people voting. Simply fix what is broken and take people off the voter registration rolls when they die.

Fantasy fraud:

Millions of illegals voting in registered voters' names. That's Redfish's favorite fantasy, and it simply is impossible. It would be detected immediately.


So...again...if Voter ID will not stop voter fraud, you have to ask yourself what the REAL reason for it is. Why are you letting yourselvs be led like sheep to demand national identity papers for everyone?

 

[squeeze berry]

this is whats going on, being the election was so so close, you take away the 12% of the black vote, the republicans win. thats pretty much it come 2014.

Dick Missing,

first of all that would be 100% of the black vote suppressed

there is no evidence of the black vote being suppressed

show us how any voter ID law targets minorities, no conjecture or harebrained theories allowed

 

[Seawytch]

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

When you are disenfranchising 100,000 voters for every one incident of fraud, this is not an acceptable ratio.

It's not necessarily the cost of the ID, it's the access to ID offices, the cost of the required associated paperwork and often a complete lack of that paperwork (born at home).

11% of votes cast are not fraudulent, we KNOW this. The percentage of fraud that would be stopped by requiring state issued photo IDs is less than 1%. That is an unacceptable ratio. Get it down below 2% without IDs and THEN put your ID laws in place.

 

[squeeze berry]

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

When you are disenfranchising 100,000 voters for every one incident of fraud, this is not an acceptable ratio.

It's not necessarily the cost of the ID, it's the access to ID offices, the cost of the required associated paperwork and often a complete lack of that paperwork (born at home).

11% of votes cast are not fraudulent, we KNOW this. The percentage of fraud that would be stopped by requiring state issued photo IDs is less than 1%. That is an unacceptable ratio. Get it down below 2% without IDs and THEN put your ID laws in place.

whose vote is/ will be suppressed?

my main problem with voting is getting to the polls b/c I work

that's unfair

 

[g5000]

DHS Determines 13 States Meet REAL ID Standards

On December 20, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) determined that thirteen states have met the standards of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (“Act&#8221 for driver’s licenses and identification cards and has granted a temporary deferment for all other states and territories.

Secure driver's licenses and identification documents are a vital component of a holistic national security strategy. Law enforcement must be able to rely on government-issued identification documents and know that the bearer of such a document is who he or she claims to be.

Papers! Papers, please! Where are you going?

 

[Seawytch]

Examples of real voter fraud:

Absentee ballot fraud. Voter ID won't stop it.

Registered to vote in more than one precinct. Voter ID won't stop it.

Poll worker marking ballots for her favorite candidate. Voter ID won't stop it.

Dead people voting. Simply fix what is broken and take people off the voter registration rolls when they die.

No, but statewide databases, signature recognition software and real-time electronic pollbooks would minimize it. Those cost money though.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

voting is a right, these other things are not. yay end thread of retard

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

Unfortunately voter fraud does happen. And if you think Melowese was the only one you're an idiot.

 

[ClosedCaption]

There is not a lot of voter fraud going on. There certainly is not enough going on to swing elections. Those who do commit fraud cast an extra vote or so. Why? Who knows. It has no effect on the outcome. Such people are just plain stupid.

Now someone is going to come along and say I believe NO voter fraud is going on. Disregard such people.

Anyway, the small amount of voter fraud suggests our system is nowhere near as broken as Voter ID proponents imagine it is.

I agree our registration system needs to be properly managed. I have repeatedly said so in this topic. When someone dies, there needs to be a mechanism which removes them from the voter registration rolls. When someone moves, there needs to be a mechanism to remove them from the rolls.

Everything hinges on the voter registration. When it is properly managed, Voter ID is completely unnecessary. Voter ID is as useless as a kickstand on a tank. A waste of the voters' time and taxpayers' money. It is more government red tape.

We have managed to hold elections for over two centuries without Voter ID, and there are very few historical examples of fraud on a scale large enough to change the outcome of an election, and no case of fraud which changed the outcome of a Presidential one.

Perhaps the single most effective fraud in our history was the one which got LBJ elected to the US Senate. But Voter ID would not have prevented that, either.

You said something about the military. I can tell you exactly how absentee registration works in the military since I am retired military.

You have to send away for a form several months before the election. Then you fill out the form and a superior officer has to sign it to validate your information and legitimacy as a voter.

Then you mail that in, and a few weeks before the election you get your ballot.

It's a tremendous nuisance, but I did it for 20 years that way.

But that is not how it works in the civilian world. Most people would not tolerate a process as difficult as that.

Voter ID in an of itself will do little to prevent voter fraud. However, if a voter system is not designed to prevent and detect voter fraud, saying that there is not a problem with fraud is like the owner of a night club saying that his club doesn't have a problem with underage drinkers when he has no ID check. And without the proper verifications, how will anyone know after the fact.

This the third time in this topic the same logical fallacy has been repeated. You guys seem to think saying the same thing over and over makes it true.

There is only one way for a bar owner to verify someone's age, and that is with an ID.

However, presenting an ID at the voting booth is not the only and best way to prevent voter fraud. So you people are comparing apples to oranges.

And I predicted someone would come along and say I claimed there was no voter fraud, and there you are.

I have not said there is no voter fraud. In fact, I plainly said there is. What you can't seem to get into your heads is that there is no case of voter fraud where you can prove Voter ID was the only way to prevent or stop it. You cannot get over this very low bar. All you have are imaginary fantasies that do not occur in real life.

Examples of real voter fraud:

Absentee ballot fraud. Voter ID won't stop it.

Registered to vote in more than one precinct. Voter ID won't stop it.

Poll worker marking ballots for her favorite candidate. Voter ID won't stop it.

Dead people voting. Simply fix what is broken and take people off the voter registration rolls when they die.

Fantasy fraud:

Millions of illegals voting in registered voters' names. That's Redfish's favorite fantasy, and it simply is impossible. It would be detected immediately.


So...again...if Voter ID will not stop voter fraud, you have to ask yourself what the REAL reason for it is. Why are you letting yourselvs be led like sheep to demand national identity papers for everyone?

Not only that but they reduce the number of early voting days for what? Not to prevent voter fraud. So why?

They have no reason behind it and its the most blantent example of restricting voting for no reason other than because they want to

 

[Seawytch]

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

When you are disenfranchising 100,000 voters for every one incident of fraud, this is not an acceptable ratio.

It's not necessarily the cost of the ID, it's the access to ID offices, the cost of the required associated paperwork and often a complete lack of that paperwork (born at home).

11% of votes cast are not fraudulent, we KNOW this. The percentage of fraud that would be stopped by requiring state issued photo IDs is less than 1%. That is an unacceptable ratio. Get it down below 2% without IDs and THEN put your ID laws in place.

whose vote is/ will be suppressed?

my main problem with voting is getting to the polls b/c I work

that's unfair

People without the "proper papers". 11% of the population does not have the ID required in many of these ID law states. 11% made up of poor people, old people and minorities that do not have a state issued photo ID.

Yes, that your boss is not required by law to give you time off to vote is unfair and even criminal in some states. It should be in all. So should waiting eight hours in line to vote.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

Unfortunately voter fraud does happen. And if you think Melowese was the only one you're an idiot.

and fish do walk on land. But I'm not asking for a walking trail for that small happening