Liar, Liar pants on fire...?

[westwall]

Amazing. Love it.
What about the videos from Israel demonstrating how well it works?

You mean like this?



LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome in Action

LiveLeak.com - Iron dome in Action Operation Protective Edge - Ashdod, Israel

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

 

[Challenger]

If this turns out to be true, it changes the whole dynamic of the current situation:

Globes English - Defense Prize winner Moti Shefer: Iron Dome is a bluff

Anyone care to disprove the article?

you think iron dome is a fake

wait until you hear about

Davids sling

that will really drop your jaw

--LOL

If they can get it to work in 2015-16 maybe.

 

[Challenger]

Amazing. Love it.
What about the videos from Israel demonstrating how well it works?

You mean like this?



LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome in Action

LiveLeak.com - Iron dome in Action Operation Protective Edge - Ashdod, Israel

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

Thanks for the links, I've looked at them several times and all I can see is Iron Dome missiles taking off and exploding, there are no secondary explosions visible, to me at least. nor are there exhaust trails from any incoming rockets. It's possible that at the termination stage of their flight path Quassams might have run out of fuel, but even if the rockets are destroyedin flight the warhead has a good chance of exploding when it hits the ground, can you point me to any reports about this?

 

[Challenger]

It's "possible" that the intercept rate is exaggerated. But 80% of the missiles launched from Gaza are awfully damn slow and erratic. Would be surprised if an interceptor that big could miss one..

Not really. Here is some video of the Sea Wolf system in operation. This is 1970's technology and they had a 100% hit rate during the Falklands war. They even shot a bomb out of the sky.

The second shows the missile making a 90 degree turn immediately after launch...and remember boys and girls...this is 1970's technology.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udl2gFh9ufA]Sea Wolf Missile - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlBQBKMY7Y]HMS Iron Duke (F234) Fires Sea Wolf Missile Using Latest Artisan 3D Radar - YouTube[/ame]

Sorry, that first video regarding Sea Wolf is incorrect, one missile shown is in fact a late variant Seacat and the "gun sight" footage is also either a Seacat, or Rapier in optical mode (used a lot during the Falklands war). All of these were designed to knock out aircraft and were not anti-missile systems nor did I ever hear of a Sea Wolf knocking a bomb out of the sky unless it was a pure fluke. Sea wolf was good but prone to systems failures in those conditions and far from perfect otherwise we wouldn't have lost so many ships at the time.

 

[Challenger]

Waste of bandwidth.

Okay, that's one person who can't disprove the article, anyone have any contrary evidence they care to present?

I have already disproved the article. Disprove that, moron.

Have you? where?

 

[Challenger]

"According to Dr. Shefer, Iron Dome is a part of a broad conspiracy, in which two interested parties afraid of peace are participating: the defense industries and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. "

To me, that's a smoking gun right there.

And they said the same thing about the Patriot missile, which wasn't initially designed to down rockets but performed quite well on Saddam's SCUDs.

Apparently not, there were many critics of Patriot at the time.

 

[Challenger]

Haaretz is a left wing newspaper and like 5 years ago they were against the Iron Dome project and called it a waste of budget, now after 100 interceptions I've seen in my own eyes I can assure you its not a waste of budget, Now they try to save their ass with new conspiracy in the "Opinion" section.
Again, you can see dozen of videos of the interceptions in the media, I personally met like 5 soldiers that operate the Iron Dome system, and I witness with my own eyes the interception - Best Defensive system ever.
If you really want to know about other systems that operates similarly you can read about these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/3/943.pdf
And you can also enter the Hamas website and see when they "retaliate" to Israelis attacks.
http://www.qassam.ps/
But I think its hacked, probably by Cyber Unit or private section.

The story isn't restricted to Haaaretz and I'm well aware of it's political leanings, however that does not invalidate the story; you could just as well state all right-wing newspapers lie when they publish Pro-Israel stories. Personally, I like to read Haaretz and the Jerulsalem Post to try to get boths side's versions of any story that takes my interest.

Next time you get to see an interception, can you try and film it to share here?

 

[Indofred]

Amazing. Love it.
What about the videos from Israel demonstrating how well it works?

You mean like this?



LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome in Action

LiveLeak.com - Iron dome in Action Operation Protective Edge - Ashdod, Israel

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

Pups in the defence industry do happen. A proven track history for one weapons system is no proof another works.
After all, the reports are a tad one sided, and there is no independent verification.
F35?

 

[Daniyel]

Haaretz is a left wing newspaper and like 5 years ago they were against the Iron Dome project and called it a waste of budget, now after 100 interceptions I've seen in my own eyes I can assure you its not a waste of budget, Now they try to save their ass with new conspiracy in the "Opinion" section.
Again, you can see dozen of videos of the interceptions in the media, I personally met like 5 soldiers that operate the Iron Dome system, and I witness with my own eyes the interception - Best Defensive system ever.
If you really want to know about other systems that operates similarly you can read about these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/3/943.pdf
And you can also enter the Hamas website and see when they "retaliate" to Israelis attacks.
http://www.qassam.ps/
But I think its hacked, probably by Cyber Unit or private section.

The story isn't restricted to Haaaretz and I'm well aware of it's political leanings, however that does not invalidate the story; you could just as well state all right-wing newspapers lie when they publish Pro-Israel stories. Personally, I like to read Haaretz and the Jerulsalem Post to try to get boths side's versions of any story that takes my interest.

Next time you get to see an interception, can you try and film it to share here?

So read Israel Hayom, most balanced newspaper so far but JPost is also pretty balanced, most of the unofficial records are made by mobile phone cameras and its hard to capture a good film specially at night but and the common sense tells me to go to our shelter instead, I found some in high quality.



I will try to capture one but I can't promise because I don't like the idea of risking for it.
The missiles coming to my area called Fajr-5, I believe Hamas fired all they had already because Tel-Aviv is the most crowded area in Israel which makes it the highest priority, you can ask [MENTION=36574]Lipush[/MENTION].
You can also notice that many interceptions are made at once because Hamas usually fire a barrage of rockets and than leave the launchers as they run to hide.

 

[Politico]

Waste of bandwidth.

Okay, that's one person who can't disprove the article, anyone have any contrary evidence they care to present?

I can. The 8,000 rockets were intercepted by ponies and rainbows.

Come to think of it I go with the waste of bandwidth.

 

[Lipush]

Haaretz is a left wing newspaper and like 5 years ago they were against the Iron Dome project and called it a waste of budget, now after 100 interceptions I've seen in my own eyes I can assure you its not a waste of budget, Now they try to save their ass with new conspiracy in the "Opinion" section.
Again, you can see dozen of videos of the interceptions in the media, I personally met like 5 soldiers that operate the Iron Dome system, and I witness with my own eyes the interception - Best Defensive system ever.
If you really want to know about other systems that operates similarly you can read about these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/3/943.pdf
And you can also enter the Hamas website and see when they "retaliate" to Israelis attacks.
http://www.qassam.ps/
But I think its hacked, probably by Cyber Unit or private section.

The story isn't restricted to Haaaretz and I'm well aware of it's political leanings, however that does not invalidate the story; you could just as well state all right-wing newspapers lie when they publish Pro-Israel stories. Personally, I like to read Haaretz and the Jerulsalem Post to try to get boths side's versions of any story that takes my interest.

Next time you get to see an interception, can you try and film it to share here?

It's amusing that you try and find some palance newspaper in Israel. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find any.

Ha'aretz the the shofar of Hamas and terror organization, Israel Hayom is the voice of the prime minister, even though it tries at times to be balanced.

I hardly think there IS balanced news-agency here. Jpost? Eh, maybe. but even that is questionable.

 

[Lipush]

If this turns out to be true, it changes the whole dynamic of the current situation:

Globes English - Defense Prize winner Moti Shefer: Iron Dome is a bluff

Anyone care to disprove the article?

I can.

I'm a southerner. Each passing day I find out just how much Iron Dome saves lives.

Fact that a noble prize winner said it's a bluff just tells you that prize meaning doesn't always equals qualities.

I learned it the day they gave Arafat the "peace" prize

 

[Lipush]

Haaretz is a left wing newspaper and like 5 years ago they were against the Iron Dome project and called it a waste of budget, now after 100 interceptions I've seen in my own eyes I can assure you its not a waste of budget, Now they try to save their ass with new conspiracy in the "Opinion" section.
Again, you can see dozen of videos of the interceptions in the media, I personally met like 5 soldiers that operate the Iron Dome system, and I witness with my own eyes the interception - Best Defensive system ever.
If you really want to know about other systems that operates similarly you can read about these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/3/943.pdf
And you can also enter the Hamas website and see when they "retaliate" to Israelis attacks.
http://www.qassam.ps/
But I think its hacked, probably by Cyber Unit or private section.

The story isn't restricted to Haaaretz and I'm well aware of it's political leanings, however that does not invalidate the story; you could just as well state all right-wing newspapers lie when they publish Pro-Israel stories. Personally, I like to read Haaretz and the Jerulsalem Post to try to get boths side's versions of any story that takes my interest.

Next time you get to see an interception, can you try and film it to share here?

So read Israel Hayom, most balanced newspaper so far but JPost is also pretty balanced, most of the unofficial records are made by mobile phone cameras and its hard to capture a good film specially at night but and the common sense tells me to go to our shelter instead, I found some in high quality.



I will try to capture one but I can't promise because I don't like the idea of risking for it.
The missiles coming to my area called Fajr-5, I believe Hamas fired all they had already because Tel-Aviv is the most crowded area in Israel which makes it the highest priority, you can ask [MENTION=36574]Lipush[/MENTION].
You can also notice that many interceptions are made at once because Hamas usually fire a barrage of rockets and than leave the launchers as they run to hide.

Please don't

Personally, it pisses me off that when hearing the siren, people tent to try and play Rambo and catch the Iron Dome in action, like some kind of all-out intertainment show.

When hearing the Siren, please find shelter. It's indeed not worthy of risking your life for a photo. I'm glad to see that people find their senses in most cases and go and take cover nodays. Many disasters were prevented thanks to that

Yes, it's their prioity because it's the most crowded, and also the most popular city. I know that in Tel Aviv the Iron Dome suddeded in the past shooting many of the Fajer-5 rockets, which is truly amazing.

Where I live we have the regular and improved Grad (range of 35 Kilometers from the Gaza strip), many of them were also targered by the Iron Dome.

 

[Challenger]

...I will try to capture one but I can't promise because I don't like the idea of risking for it....

You see so many "interception" clips I got the impression they were easy to get. There's absolutely no need to put yourself in danger just for a internet forum request.

Again, in the clips you show, we can only see Iron Dome launches and explosions (except when those pesky clouds get in the way), but never any secondary explosions. This tends to support the criticisms

 

[Daniyel]

...I will try to capture one but I can't promise because I don't like the idea of risking for it....

You see so many "interception" clips I got the impression they were easy to get. There's absolutely no need to put yourself in danger just for a internet forum request.

This is crucial because marking interception with quotation marks makes me believe you don't really understand the threat is real, many people got injured just by the panic of the alarm when they didn't realize it can actually get them.

 

[Hollie]

Okay, that's one person who can't disprove the article, anyone have any contrary evidence they care to present?

I have already disproved the article. Disprove that, moron.

Have you? where?

Wait, what? Are you suggesting that comments should be supported with evidence? What an audacious notion.

So then, your conspiracy theory that iron dome doesn't actually work is supported, where?

 

[Daniyel]

I have already disproved the article. Disprove that, moron.

Have you? where?

Wait, what? Are you suggesting that comments should be supported with evidence? What an audacious notion.

So then, your conspiracy theory that iron dome doesn't actually work is supported, where?

It's purposeless, and I invite you to Israel to witness yourself the interceptions, anyway since the ground operation the amount of rockets reduced significantly by 70% and Hamas finally agreed to ceasefire which means something IS going on.

 

[aris2chat]

Small rocket size and hitting the incoming from a number of angles and not within 15% directly on the war head seems a minor criticism considering how many have been engaged and how many lives have been saved.
By hitting the body of the rockets, causes them to fall short, they loose their momentum but they can still cause damage to what the remains fall down on. Success to some means total pulverization 100% of the time. 90% intercept might not be perfect but few things in life are.

 

[westwall]

Amazing. Love it.
What about the videos from Israel demonstrating how well it works?

You mean like this?



LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome in Action

LiveLeak.com - Iron dome in Action Operation Protective Edge - Ashdod, Israel

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

LiveLeak.com - Iron Dome Missiles Explode In Air

Thanks for the links, I've looked at them several times and all I can see is Iron Dome missiles taking off and exploding, there are no secondary explosions visible, to me at least. nor are there exhaust trails from any incoming rockets. It's possible that at the termination stage of their flight path Quassams might have run out of fuel, but even if the rockets are destroyedin flight the warhead has a good chance of exploding when it hits the ground, can you point me to any reports about this?

That's because there are no secondary explosions that you can see. They happen far too fast for a human eye to pick out. The Iron Dome is a point detonator, that means it impacts it's target so the primary explosion occurs, then, milliseconds later the secondary, sympathetic detonation occurs.

The Quassams are on ballistic trajectories coming down...their fuel was expended long ago getting their boost to altitude, they continue up till gravity pulls them back over the top of their trajectory. They're a bomb on the way down, just a bomb at that point.

 

[westwall]

It's "possible" that the intercept rate is exaggerated. But 80% of the missiles launched from Gaza are awfully damn slow and erratic. Would be surprised if an interceptor that big could miss one..

Not really. Here is some video of the Sea Wolf system in operation. This is 1970's technology and they had a 100% hit rate during the Falklands war. They even shot a bomb out of the sky.

The second shows the missile making a 90 degree turn immediately after launch...and remember boys and girls...this is 1970's technology.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udl2gFh9ufA]Sea Wolf Missile - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlBQBKMY7Y]HMS Iron Duke (F234) Fires Sea Wolf Missile Using Latest Artisan 3D Radar - YouTube[/ame]

Sorry, that first video regarding Sea Wolf is incorrect, one missile shown is in fact a late variant Seacat and the "gun sight" footage is also either a Seacat, or Rapier in optical mode (used a lot during the Falklands war). All of these were designed to knock out aircraft and were not anti-missile systems nor did I ever hear of a Sea Wolf knocking a bomb out of the sky unless it was a pure fluke. Sea wolf was good but prone to systems failures in those conditions and far from perfect otherwise we wouldn't have lost so many ships at the time.

Wrong on all counts. Sea Wolf had one failure to acquire when they were close to San Carlos Water so they moved the Broadswords out into the open ocean where the guidance systems wouldn't have a problem. The Argies had one flight of four Skyhawks that were inbound, three were intercepted by Sew Wolf and shot down, one managed to drop his bomb which the Sea Wolf hit instead of the A-4 which then hit the water trying to evade another Sea Wolf.

The problem the RN had during the Falklands was they only had two of the Type 22 frigates and they were usually assigned as close escort to the Invincible and the Hermes.

I can go chapter and verse on the Falklands war if you wish, but you're simply wrong.