Let's talk about the oft repeated phrase "a threat to democracy" we believe trump presents.

[IM2]

Because he's playing by the same precedent as Obama?

Obama did nothing of the sort. Show me were Obama tried orchestrating an insurrection, or created a fake elector scheme to stay inpower.

 

[IDIOCRACY]

We spend so much time talking past each other I thought it might be useful to be more exacting in reference to what is meant by that phrase. It is most frequently used in the context of what another trump presidency may bring. Based in part on certain remarks he's made about retribution against his perceived enemies. And on the disavowed document, Project 2025, laying out a blueprint for what another term portends.

The thing is, we don't have to speculate about whether a threat will materialize..........it already has. I should say at this point I'm reluctant to illustrate what I mean because I know what kind of reaction it will elicit. But the point of the post is to be specific, not vague, so here goes.

On 4 January, the conservative lawyer John Eastman was summoned to the Oval Office to meet Donald Trump and Vice-President Mike Pence. Within 48 hours, Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 presidential election would formally be certified by Congress, sealing Trump’s fate and removing him from the White House.
Tucker Carlson condemned over ‘false flag’ claim about deadly Capitol attack
The atmosphere in the room was tense. The then US president was “fired up” to make what amounted to a last-ditch effort to overturn the election results and snatch a second term in office in the most powerful job on Earth.

Eastman, who had a decades-long reputation as a prominent conservative law professor, had already prepared a two-page memo in which he had outlined an incendiary scenario under which Pence, presiding over the joint session of Congress that was to be convened on 6 January, effectively overrides the votes of millions of Americans in seven states that Biden had won, then “gavels President Trump as re-elected”.

The Eastman memo, first revealed by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa in their book Peril, goes on to predict “howls” of protest from Democrats. The theory was that Pence, acting as the “ultimate arbiter” of the process, would then send the matter to the House of Representatives which, following an arcane rule that says that where no candidate has reached the necessary majority each state will have one vote, also decides to turn the world upside down and hand the election to the losing candidate, Donald Trump.

‘A roadmap for a coup’: inside Trump’s plot to steal the presidency

A startling memo, a surreal Oval Office encounter – just some of the twists in the unfolding story of Trump’s bid to cling to power, which critics say was no less than an attempted coup

www.theguardian.com

Here's a link to the Eastman memo. https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf

I'm hoping not to get bogged down by folks who will not accept this meeting actually did take place. If you can't accept that it did this would be a good jumping off point for you.

Moving on, we come to the matter of Jeffrey Clark. You may or may not recall trump wanted to name him acting AG in order to use the influence of the DoJ to pursue baseless claims of massive voter fraud, specifically in GA. When some of the top DoJ officials heard of trump's desire they threatened to quit en masse if he promoted Clark.

Read the Unsent Letter by Jeffrey Clark to Georgia Officials​

Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official who worked closely with President Donald J. Trump and his allies to undo the election, wanted to send a letter to state officials in Georgia that falsely claimed that the Justice Department had “identified significant concerns” that would affect the state’s election results.

Read the Unsent Letter by Jeffrey Clark to Georgia Officials (Published 2022)

Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official who worked closely with President Donald J. Trump and his allies to undo the election, wanted to send a letter to state officials in Georgia that falsely claimed that the Justice Department had “identified significant concerns” that would...

www.nytimes.com

Former DOJ officials detail threatening to resign en masse in meeting with Trump​

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/23/1107217243/former-doj-officials-detail-threatening-resign-en-masse-trump-meeting

Finally, we come to trump's participation in the fake elector scheme.

Comprehensive Timeline on False Electors Scheme in 2020 Presidential Election​

Comprehensive Timeline on False Electors Scheme in 2020 Presidential Election

The most comprehensive factual record of former President Donald Trump and his close associates coordination of the false electors scheme.

www.justsecurity.org

Overwhelming documentary and testimonial evidence proves beyond any doubt these things I've outlined happened. All of which with one goal in mind. To create a scenario leading to trump remaining in power.

I do not pretend to speak for anyone but myself when I say this is what is meant when I contend trump is a threat to democracy. He has already threatened it. There is every reason to believe he will threaten it again. Especially after the recent rulings of his SCOTUS.

Ultimately, I'm asking trump supporters to examine the record I've laid out. The demonstrable evidence shows trump and his cohorts tried to change the outcome of a presidential election. I can think of few greater threats to democracy than that. They say past is prologue, hence my (our) concern.

I stopped reading at "Based in part on certain remarks he's made about retribution against his perceived enemies. And on the disavowed document, Project 2025, laying out a blueprint for what another term portends.'

Your kind PROVES to be a threat to democracy, IN ACTION. Then your kind projects their guilt onto the opposition, for what might occur in the future. How come you can't tell the difference Turd80?

 

[teddyearp]

Obama did nothing of the sort. Show me were Obama tried orchestrating an insurrection, or created a fake elector scheme to stay inpower.

Oh. You mean those democratic conspiracy theories fueled by alt left news outlets?

 

[berg80]

Obama did nothing of the sort. Show me were Obama tried orchestrating an insurrection, or created a fake elector scheme to stay inpower.

Remember, they don't need facts, they have belief.

 

[berg80]

Your kind PROVES to be a threat to democracy,

Project much?

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf

 

[berg80]

Oh. You mean those democratic conspiracy theories fueled by alt left news outlets?

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf

 

[teddyearp]

Project much?

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf

And here I thought you meant it when you said you're tired of talking past each other in your OP.

Reckon not. Reckon I'll not waste anymore time here. Enjoy your alt left conspiracy theories.

 

[teddyearp]

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf

Huh. I've seen a lot of left leaning posters deride conservatives and say. "All you watch is Faux News" or 'stop watching'. Not saying I saw you do it here, but. CNN and MSNBC is just as alt-left as y'all say "Faux"News is alt-right.

Get back to me when you grow up some day.

545 people. Look it up.

 

[berg80]

And here I thought you meant it when you said you're tired of talking past each other in your OP.

Reckon not. Reckon I'll not waste anymore time here. Enjoy your alt left conspiracy theories.

There is one of many documents, the one I linked to, highlighting one aspect of the conspiracy to keep trump in power. Surely you aren't denying its existence, are you? Do with the information what you will.

 

[berg80]

Huh. I've seen a lot of left leaning posters deride conservatives and say. "All you watch is Faux News" or 'stop watching'. Not saying I saw you do it here, but. CNN and MSNBC is just as alt-left as y'all say "Faux"News is alt-right.

Get back to me when you grow up some day.

545 people. Look it up.

That document was authored by John Eastman. Look it up and get back to me when you've informed yourself.

 

[berg80]

Trump Reveals Plan To Subvert Georgia’s Elections​

On Saturday, Donald Trump went to Georgia to rally with his faithful. Like a washed-up Vegas performer, Trump offered his audience what they came for — his greatest hits of hate, lies and bizarre digressions.

Between praise for real dictators and admiration for fictitious serial murders, Trump managed to do a bit of business. Calling them “pit bulls fighting for honesty, transparency, and victory,” Trump name-checked three members of the otherwise obscure Georgia State Election Board.

Notably, Trump did not mention that the Election Board has a total of five-members – four of whom were appointed by Republicans. Nor did he explain why he singled out three of the four. Perhaps it was because three who Trump mentioned from the stage: Janice Johnston, Rick Jeffares and Janelle King have refused to acknowledge that Joe Biden won Georgia in 2020.

Trump Reveals Plan To Subvert Georgia’s Elections

From Marc | Like a washed-up Vegas performer, Trump offered his audience what they came for — his greatest hits of hate, lies and bizarre digressions.

www.democracydocket.com

The Fight To Certify Elections Has Already Begun​

During the midterm primary elections, at least 10 counties — including four in Pennsylvania — refused to certify accurate election results. After the general election, counties in Arizona and Pennsylvania refused to certify election results that saw Democratic candidates for governor, U.S. Senate and Congress prevail.

Once again, my legal team was forced to bring litigation to protect against election subversion. We sued Cochise County, Arizona and Luzerne County, Pennsylvania and won as they ultimately certified their results. Democracy was protected for at least one more election cycle.

But even so, my fear for future elections remained as the “Big Lie” spread by Trump and his allies became core to the Republican Party.

Over the course of the last year, Republicans have become bolder in their plans to subvert the election results in 2024. They now speak more openly about the need to control the certification process. They litigate more aggressively to be able to subvert election results. They enact new laws and rules explicitly for this purpose.

The Fight To Certify Elections Has Already Begun

From Marc | With fewer than 100 days until the election, Republicans are building an election subversion war machine.

www.democracydocket.com

As we recently saw in AZ, when election deniers like Kari Lake win their primary elections they make no claims of fraud. However, rest assured if Trump loses he and his minions will make the certification process as chaotic as possible. The preparations having already been made with the Trojan Horse of delusional deniers infiltrating the machinations of certification.

 

[SeaMajor7]

Remember, they don't need facts, they have belief.

IRONY

 

[struth]

Threats to democracy are violent demafasict brownshirts that riot, loot, firebomb court houses, try to assassinate justices, and political rivals, try to lock up political rivals, try to keep political rivals of ballots, weaponize rheir offices to go after political rivals, take part in censorship

You know do what demafasict do

 

[berg80]

Threats to democracy are violent demafasict brownshirts that riot, loot, firebomb court houses, try to assassinate justices, and political rivals, try to lock up political rivals, try to keep political rivals of ballots, weaponize rheir offices to go after political rivals, take part in censorship

You know do what demafasict do

Putting all those flatly ludicrous assertions aside for the moment, would you like to comment on trump singling out members of the GA election board because they remain loyal to the Big Lie?

 

[berg80]

Huh. I've seen a lot of left leaning posters deride conservatives and say. "All you watch is Faux News" or 'stop watching'. Not saying I saw you do it here, but. CNN and MSNBC is just as alt-left as y'all say "Faux"News is alt-right.

Get back to me when you grow up some day.

545 people. Look it up.

Reports of the death of the “Big Lie” seem premature. After most, but not all, statewide candidates who denied the outcome of the 2020 election were defeated in 2022, many people celebrated that election denialism was on the wane. But, then counties in Arizona and Pennsylvania said: Not so fast.

In both states, a single county — Cochise County, Arizona and Luzerne County, Pennsylvania — willfully refused to meet the states’ deadlines to certify election results. In both cases, local Republican election officials voted against accepting election results that they had a clear, unambiguous duty to certify. Facing constituents who show up to public meetings heckling and spreading falsehoods about our elections, these officials substituted conspiracy theories for facts and elevated the misguided concerns of a few over their legal obligation to all.

Message to Counties: Certifying Elections Is Not Optional

From Marc | Many celebrated that election denialism was on the wane. Then counties in Arizona and Pennsylvania said: Not so fast.

www.democracydocket.com

 

[struth]

Putting all those flatly ludicrous assertions aside for the moment, would you like to comment on trump singling out members of the GA election board because they remain loyal to the Big Lie?

Why do you deflect from the facts? You are comparing trump talking about some offficsls that still support him, to you all trying to murder justices and a political rival?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The thing is, we don't have to speculate about whether a threat will materialize..........it already has

Yes. We saw it when your party forced Joe Biden out

 

[berg80]

Why do you deflect from the facts?

Your opinions are not facts.

 

[berg80]

Yes. We saw it when your party forced Joe Biden out

You've stretched credulity to the breaking point. If Biden remained convinced he could beat trump he'd still be the presumptive nominee.

 

[Cellblock2429]

We spend so much time talking past each other I thought it might be useful to be more exacting in reference to what is meant by that phrase. It is most frequently used in the context of what another trump presidency may bring. Based in part on certain remarks he's made about retribution against his perceived enemies. And on the disavowed document, Project 2025, laying out a blueprint for what another term portends.

The thing is, we don't have to speculate about whether a threat will materialize..........it already has. I should say at this point I'm reluctant to illustrate what I mean because I know what kind of reaction it will elicit. But the point of the post is to be specific, not vague, so here goes.

On 4 January, the conservative lawyer John Eastman was summoned to the Oval Office to meet Donald Trump and Vice-President Mike Pence. Within 48 hours, Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 presidential election would formally be certified by Congress, sealing Trump’s fate and removing him from the White House.
Tucker Carlson condemned over ‘false flag’ claim about deadly Capitol attack
The atmosphere in the room was tense. The then US president was “fired up” to make what amounted to a last-ditch effort to overturn the election results and snatch a second term in office in the most powerful job on Earth.

Eastman, who had a decades-long reputation as a prominent conservative law professor, had already prepared a two-page memo in which he had outlined an incendiary scenario under which Pence, presiding over the joint session of Congress that was to be convened on 6 January, effectively overrides the votes of millions of Americans in seven states that Biden had won, then “gavels President Trump as re-elected”.

The Eastman memo, first revealed by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa in their book Peril, goes on to predict “howls” of protest from Democrats. The theory was that Pence, acting as the “ultimate arbiter” of the process, would then send the matter to the House of Representatives which, following an arcane rule that says that where no candidate has reached the necessary majority each state will have one vote, also decides to turn the world upside down and hand the election to the losing candidate, Donald Trump.

‘A roadmap for a coup’: inside Trump’s plot to steal the presidency

A startling memo, a surreal Oval Office encounter – just some of the twists in the unfolding story of Trump’s bid to cling to power, which critics say was no less than an attempted coup

www.theguardian.com

Here's a link to the Eastman memo. https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf

I'm hoping not to get bogged down by folks who will not accept this meeting actually did take place. If you can't accept that it did this would be a good jumping off point for you.

Moving on, we come to the matter of Jeffrey Clark. You may or may not recall trump wanted to name him acting AG in order to use the influence of the DoJ to pursue baseless claims of massive voter fraud, specifically in GA. When some of the top DoJ officials heard of trump's desire they threatened to quit en masse if he promoted Clark.

Read the Unsent Letter by Jeffrey Clark to Georgia Officials​

Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official who worked closely with President Donald J. Trump and his allies to undo the election, wanted to send a letter to state officials in Georgia that falsely claimed that the Justice Department had “identified significant concerns” that would affect the state’s election results.

Read the Unsent Letter by Jeffrey Clark to Georgia Officials (Published 2022)

Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official who worked closely with President Donald J. Trump and his allies to undo the election, wanted to send a letter to state officials in Georgia that falsely claimed that the Justice Department had “identified significant concerns” that would...

www.nytimes.com

Former DOJ officials detail threatening to resign en masse in meeting with Trump​

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/23/1107217243/former-doj-officials-detail-threatening-resign-en-masse-trump-meeting

Finally, we come to trump's participation in the fake elector scheme.

Comprehensive Timeline on False Electors Scheme in 2020 Presidential Election​

Comprehensive Timeline on False Electors Scheme in 2020 Presidential Election

The most comprehensive factual record of former President Donald Trump and his close associates coordination of the false electors scheme.

www.justsecurity.org

Overwhelming documentary and testimonial evidence proves beyond any doubt these things I've outlined happened. All of which with one goal in mind. To create a scenario leading to trump remaining in power.

I do not pretend to speak for anyone but myself when I say this is what is meant when I contend trump is a threat to democracy. He has already threatened it. There is every reason to believe he will threaten it again. Especially after the recent rulings of his SCOTUS.

Ultimately, I'm asking trump supporters to examine the record I've laid out. The demonstrable evidence shows trump and his cohorts tried to change the outcome of a presidential election. I can think of few greater threats to democracy than that. They say past is prologue, hence my (our) concern.

/----/ "Ultimately, I'm asking trump supporters to examine the record I've laid out."
I'll give it all the attention it so richly deserves.