Let’s Roll Back The Tax Cuts Instead

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well, that's unlikely, as I said the economy is a set of interleaved balance sheets: the negative equity of the government is part of the positive equity of the other sectors.
Two things have changed
1) The size of the FIRE sector
2) The US had a positive trade balance.

The FIRE sector doesn't produce anything, it just inflates prices and reduces the amount of money available for real production.

America’s Path To A FIRE Economy

We originally posted this chart in February 2011, which we just updated also breaking out the real estate industry from FIRE (finance, insurance, and real estate). It is still is just as shocking…

global-macro-monitor.com

it just inflates prices and reduces the amount of money available for real production.

How does it do that?

 

[Mexicano]

it just inflates prices and reduces the amount of money available for real production.

How does it do that?

Assume there are only 2 "investors" in the country
They have 2 options :
1) Invest in a new startup
2) Buy cryptocurrencies that are going up like foam in a beer.
The investors look at the yield of the startup : 8% per year and compare it with the yield of crypto 20% per year.
So they decide to invest in crypto and the startup dies.
...
Eventually, the yield of crypto goes below 8% and investors decide it might be time to invest in something else. But while the crypto market was bubbling no productive investment happened.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Assume there are only 2 "investors" in the country
They have 2 options :
1) Invest in a new startup
2) Buy cryptocurrencies that are going up like foam in a beer.
The investors look at the yield of the startup : 8% per year and compare it with the yield of crypto 20% per year.
So they decide to invest in crypto and the startup dies.
...
Eventually, the yield of crypto goes below 8% and investors decide it might be time to invest in something else. But while the crypto market was bubbling no productive investment happened.

Give your money to the government......it's the only way to save us. DURR

How old were you when you failed your last Econ class?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Must be a lonely life you live.

Not at all.

Do you know why they have deductions for kids? So people will have children that will keep this country going, but then you dont like this country and want to see it destroyed with all the illegal aliens and their anchor babies. What then for you? If the country is shit, do you move out, or just be a poor miserable wretch that has speak Hispanic press 2.

If tax deductions are why people choose to have kids, they are going to be shit parents and should not have kids.

Hell, if we are stuck choosing between Trump and Biden again in 2024 it will be the final straw that convinces the wife and I to retire outside of the US.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

But in exchange, the government would have to adjust the formula for the basic cost of living so that homeowners get some deserved break for the monthly mortgage. (Renters could also benefit if the basic cost of living formula includes rent costs.)

Nope. There are all sorts of rewards in being a homeowner, the Govt does not need to be involved. It is long past time we quit using our tax code for social engineering and just use it to raise revenue as it was intended.

Once that initial exception is firmly planted in the flat tax law, there could be no subsequent alterations to the formula. And further, if the government ever seeks to raise the flat rate (say from an across the board 10% to a new flat rate of 12%), it will have to be passed by a supermajority in both houses of Congress and must await two or more years before taking place.

Minus the exception, I am good with the rest

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Not at all.



If tax deductions are why people choose to have kids, they are going to be shit parents and should not have kids.

Hell, if we are stuck choosing between Trump and Biden again in 2024 it will be the final straw that convinces the wife and I to retire outside of the US.

So like with the Marxist/Democrat party today, it is better to murder born and unborn children? This country cant sustain its status without positive child birth. Who is going to pay for your welfare or Social Security and Medicare? Illegals? And what is worse, is the Demofascists are replacing you with diseased illegals that the Dems can manipulate because of the language barrier. You Dem voters sure are racist pricks.

COVID-19, Declining Birth Rates and International Migration Resulted in Historically Small Population Gains

With the exception of the last few years, the U.S. population has not grown at such a slow rate since 1918, during the influenza pandemic and World War I.

www.census.gov

Modern day slavery: How immigration laws lure and trap undocumented workers

There is a simple solution, however.

thehill.com

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So like with the Marxist/Democrat party today, it is better to murder born and unborn children?

I am against abortion. I am not sure what that has to do with tax deductions.

This country cant sustain its status without positive child birth.

If people are worried about this it should not take the Govt giving them money to have kids. I have two grown children, I did not have either because of some tax break which covers about 1% of raising a child.

And what is worse, is the Demofascists are replacing you with diseased illegals that the Dems can manipulate because of the language barrier

I am not being replaced. Sorry that you life is so shitty that such people can replace you. Perhaps you should work a bit harder and better your situation.

You Dem voters sure are racist pricks.

I do not vote for Dems nor Repups.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I am against abortion. I am not sure what that has to do with tax deductions.




If people are worried about this it should not take the Govt giving them money to have kids. I have two grown children, I did not have either because of some tax break which covers about 1% of raising a child.



I am not being replaced. Sorry that you life is so shitty that such people can replace you. Perhaps you should work a bit harder and better your situation.



I do not vote for Dems nor Repups.

Of course you dont, i said that because our country is losing our identity because of abortion on demand, soon the United States just wont be, because of the constant illegal alien flow across the southern border allowed by the Joe Biteme admin and you, who voted for the shitstain.

How is allowing people who have children, giving them money when it is their own earned money that isnt being taxed? Oh yeah, with Marxists like you, people who earn money arent really earning, just the government is allotting them a paycheck because of the benevolence of the government.

Yes, you are being replaced 100 illegals to every worthless piece of shit Democrat voter.

You are a liar...

 

[Harpy Eagle]

How is allowing people who have children, giving them money when it is their own earned money that isnt being taxed? Oh yeah, with Marxists like you, people who earn money arent really earning, just the government is allotting them a paycheck because of the benevolence of the government.

If two people make the same amount of income, they should pay the same amount of taxes. Things like kids and houses and college should not have any impact on how much they both pay.

 

[Mexicano]

Give your money to the government......it's the only way to save us. DURR

How old were you when you failed your last Econ class?

That's no argument, that's a personal attack. I am just stating the facts: the private sector has seen a rampant investment into the FIRE sector which produces no growth at all.
Do you wan't the firms to be in charge of making the US economy grow, well , then go and take the fight to them. I would rather see them invest in actual production, creating job, but the data doesn't show they are doing that, and why would they do so? It's their money.
Someone has to get the US out of the speculation cycle, it just makes everyone worse off in the medium term.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

If two people make the same amount of income, they should pay the same amount of taxes. Things like kids and houses and college should not have any impact on how much they both pay.

Guess you never had kids or a house. Must suck to be you.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Guess you never had kids or a house. Must suck to be you.

Two kids (both adults now) and just moved into a new brand new house we had built.

Does not change my views that the Govt should not use the tax code for social engineering.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

That's no argument, that's a personal attack. I am just stating the facts: the private sector has seen a rampant investment into the FIRE sector which produces no growth at all.
Do you wan't the firms to be in charge of making the US economy grow, well , then go and take the fight to them. I would rather see them invest in actual production, creating job, but the data doesn't show they are doing that, and why would they do so? It's their money.
Someone has to get the US out of the speculation cycle, it just makes everyone worse off in the medium term.

I know a whole bunch of jobs that would of paid well, except that Joe Biteme the 46th worthless president nixxed the Keystone pipeline and all the associated jobs that would of gone along with the pipe building. But alas, Marxists cant have high paying jobs for people, because then the Marxists dont have slaves who need a government.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Two kids (both adults now) and just moved into a new brand new house we had built.

Does not change my views that the Govt should not use the tax code for social engineering.

Did you get tax deductions on your kids and mortgage? Be honest.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Did you get tax deductions on your kids and mortgage? Be honest.

Of course.

One would be a fool to not take advantage of what the law offers.

I think the law should be changed, until then I will follow it as it is.

 

[BackAgain]

Nope. There are all sorts of rewards in being a homeowner, the Govt does not need to be involved. It is long past time we quit using our tax code for social engineering and just use it to raise revenue as it was intended.



Minus the exception, I am good with the rest

Avaricious liberals always want more of our money.

There needs to be a baseline below which people can’t afford to pay an income tax and will not have to. The formula should include not just the basic costs of food and medicine and clothing per person, but housing costs.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Avaricious liberals always want more of our money.

That you will.

There needs to be a baseline below which people can’t afford to pay an income tax and will not have to. The formula should include not just the basic costs of food and medicine and clothing per person, but housing costs.

That is not a workable system. The cost for housing in be drastically different just based on a few miles. When we had our house built we choose about 7 miles south of where we had been living. This saved us as much as 40 grand on the price of compared to if we had built it in the town we were living in.

Then there is the cost of medicine. My son is a Type-1 diabetic, his cost for meds at the age of 21 is more than most people at the age of 65.

There just needs to be a flat "you make this much, you pay this much".

 

[BackAgain]

That you will.

That made no sense. You’re the one trying to squeeze more money out of the taxpayers. You libs tend to be quite dishonest.

That is not a workable system. The cost for housing in be drastically different just based on a few miles.

So what? That’s a by-product of your choice about where to live. It doesn’t need to be factored in.

When we had our house built we choose about 7 miles south of where we had been living. This saved us as much as 40 grand on the price of compared to if we had built it in the town we were living in.

An uninteresting and uninformative anecdote.

Then there is the cost of medicine. My son is a Type-1 diabetic, his cost for meds at the age of 21 is more than most people at the age of 65.

Ok. So like food and clothing, that can be factored in. But it isn’t and shouldn’t be anything that nullifies the proposal.

There just needs to be a flat "you make this much, you pay this much".

All you libs would have a conniption fit if there were no allowances for basic costs of living. The methodology I proposed may not be perfectly fair to all. No system of income taxation ever will be. Certainly not the shit show we currently have.

Our current monstrosity encompasses over 75 THOUSAND pages. How Many Pages Is the Tax Code

 

[Harpy Eagle]

All you libs would have a conniption fit if there were no allowances for basic costs of living. The methodology I proposed may not be perfectly fair to all. No system of income taxation ever will be. Certainly not the shit show we currently have.

Our current monstrosity encompasses over 75 THOUSAND pages. How Many Pages Is the Tax Code

You are correct about the shit show we have now.

Your system is only a tiny bit better.

Mine is simple and removes all social engineering by the Govt.

You’re the one trying to squeeze more money out of the taxpayers. You libs tend to be quite dishonest.

No, I am not. I am just trying to make it simple and fair. With all the deductions you are factoring in the rate of taxation will have to be higher to offset what is lost. None of you people will ever vote for anyone that will actually cut spending so we need to pay for what we spend and quit fucking over the future generations.

 

[BackAgain]

You are correct about the shit show we have now.

I know.

Your system is only a tiny bit better.

Wrong. It is massively better. It wouldn’t take a hundred pages of laws and regulations. And income tax return filings could be fit neatly on a post card.

Mine is simple and removes all social engineering by the Govt.

My proposal has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with social engineering.

No, I am not. I am just trying to make it simple and fair.

It would be very marginally simpler to craft your way. But either proposal would be vastly more fair to all taxpayers.

With all the deductions you are factoring in the rate of taxation will have to be higher to offset what is lost.

I didn’t propose even one deduction. The calculation will be made by Congress. Right wrong or in between, they will state the baseline at which taxation of income may begin. One number. Period. Same for rich and poor alike.

None of you people will ever vote for anyone that will actually cut spending

Bullshit. You libs live to spend and when there is no money left to seize, you borrow or print. My vote is to cut spending. And one way to start involves knowing what the revenue stream is going to be in advance. Then, live within that budget.

so we need to pay for what we spend and quit fucking over the future generations.

I’m glad you ended up finally saying something that’s reasonable.