Let's Reform The Individual Mandate In ACA

[RDD_1210]

All of them that didn't prohibit it.

Again....none.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about solutions based in reality.

So because no one has tried it, it is not a solution based in reality?
What is not based in reality is the idea that we are going to implement a socialist scheme like Obamacare, which has been tried in the states many times and failed, and for some reason this time it will be different.

We've had Obamacare before?? Weird, when was that?

 

[Truthmatters]

the right wants people to die in the streets without healthcare

 

[RDD_1210]

Every country that has gone social medicine, which is all industrialized countries, as failed. So, which is a worse record?

Tried Capitalism: 0 for 0

Tried Socialism: 0 for everyone.

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

Yes. The proof is they are all marked by soaring costs and vain attempts to rein those costs in. Go ahead an post a few examples.

Which healthcare system costs more than ours? Name just one.

 

[chikenwing]

the right wants people to die in the streets without healthcare

You must know just how stupid you make yourself with this nonsense?

 

[rightwinger]

Because of course, Comrade, it's government's job to fine me for not wanting to pay for someone else's pre- existing condition through overpaying for my own insurance. So I can either pay for their pre-existing condition or not get insurance and pay a fine. Wow, that's not out of control government ,is it?

Yes

That is how it works. Sometimes in life you are on the giving end and sometimes you are on the receiving end

In this case, people with pre-existing conditions were being blocked from the insurance market are on the receiving end. Not a pleasant circumstance if you suffer from a serious illness.

But, as a true Libertarian, your view is **** them, I got mine

We understand.

**** them, I got mine is clearly far more your view than mine. You in every way advocate taking for yourself and giving for others.

Thats the way healthcare has always worked

The seriously sick always run up more bills than the healthy. Yet they pay the same

Of the two, I would rather be the person who pays for coverage I don't use

 

[RDD_1210]

Reading is fundamental. What's the difference between what I said and what you did? Cue the Jeopardy music...

Ok, let's make this real simple. Name one country you think has a good healthcare system. ANY country.

We do, though it's sinking with every mandate and regulation and Obamacare is warp speeding that process.

So every other nation has terrible healthcare? And our system which just got in bed further with private insurance is "sinking"?

 

[kaz]

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

Yes. The proof is they are all marked by soaring costs and vain attempts to rein those costs in. Go ahead an post a few examples.

Which healthcare system costs more than ours? Name just one.

Before Obamacare or after? After Obamacare I can't imagine anyone's does.

 

[RDD_1210]

Every country that has gone social medicine, which is all industrialized countries, as failed. So, which is a worse record?

Tried Capitalism: 0 for 0

Tried Socialism: 0 for everyone.

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

And the rich from those countries come here when they need serious treatment. They also don't allow pharmaceutical companies to charge for their full share for the the full cost of research so those costs hit Americans more. They have as I pointed out higher death rates from cancer and heart disease. And it's going to get worse when they can't sponge off us because we become like them.

Thanks for proving my point. Our system is great for the rich. What about the other 99% of the country that isn't rich? That includes you.

 

[kaz]

Ok, let's make this real simple. Name one country you think has a good healthcare system. ANY country.

We do, though it's sinking with every mandate and regulation and Obamacare is warp speeding that process.

So every other nation has terrible healthcare? And our system which just got in bed further with private insurance is "sinking"?

Crony capitalism is a form of socialism, it has nothing to do with capitalism. When government picks winners and losers and controls the market, it's central economic planning.

Liberals fundamentally don't grasp free markets. Free markets is when suppliers and consumers make their own choices. Free markets isn't a reference to "companies." It's FREE markets. You think when companies are involved we suddenly are getting our way over your government solution. That isn't what we believe ... at all ...

 

[kaz]

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

And the rich from those countries come here when they need serious treatment. They also don't allow pharmaceutical companies to charge for their full share for the the full cost of research so those costs hit Americans more. They have as I pointed out higher death rates from cancer and heart disease. And it's going to get worse when they can't sponge off us because we become like them.

Thanks for proving my point. Our system is great for the rich. What about the other 99% of the country that isn't rich? That includes you.

It's funny how over and over you hear the words and don't grasp what they mean when put together.

What I said is in your socialist countries, the rich aren't impacted by your socialism like the masses are. Seriously, you see that as an argument for our going socialist? LOL.

Same thing will happen as we go socialist. Non-industrialized countries will set up medical freedom and our rich will go there. We won't be so impacted. It's you who are condemning yourself.

 

[RDD_1210]

Yes. The proof is they are all marked by soaring costs and vain attempts to rein those costs in. Go ahead an post a few examples.

Which healthcare system costs more than ours? Name just one.

Before Obamacare or after? After Obamacare I can't imagine anyone's does.

Before. Go for it. Tell us which system was more expensive in the last 20 years.

 

[chikenwing]

Again....none.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about solutions based in reality.

Yeah, I know. You don't get it. But I'll try one more time. My solutions are none of your business. And yours are none of mine. I'll deal with my health issues, you deal with yours.


To put it another way, I don't accept your premise that this is a problem that "we" have to solve together. Just as my decisions regarding how to provide for all of my other personal needs aren't a matter of public policy debate.

I get it, you don't like living in a civilized society. That's the problem. I'm sure there are plenty of 3rd world nations that would love your "**** you, I got mine" mentality. Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cares for one another (at least some of us do) and when someone needs a helping hand, we're there to lend it. Your selfishness is not what this country is about luckily.

Good thing is, there are plenty of 3rd world countries where you can do whatever the **** you want without pesky government getting involved that you can move to.

So we have many help programs,fact that cons out give by wide margins doesn't matter.

Charity and help is best when voluntary,taking from one to give to another,is not.

This is a turd going around and around the bowl,just waiting.

 

[RDD_1210]

And the rich from those countries come here when they need serious treatment. They also don't allow pharmaceutical companies to charge for their full share for the the full cost of research so those costs hit Americans more. They have as I pointed out higher death rates from cancer and heart disease. And it's going to get worse when they can't sponge off us because we become like them.

Thanks for proving my point. Our system is great for the rich. What about the other 99% of the country that isn't rich? That includes you.

It's funny how over and over you hear the words and don't grasp what they mean when put together.

What I said is in your socialist countries, the rich aren't impacted by your socialism like the masses are. Seriously, you see that as an argument for our going socialist? LOL.

First of all, you obviously don't understand the definition of Socialism. Second, you are afraid to name a single country in the world outside of ours which has a good healthcare system. Yet, there is plenty of data that a simple Google search will return showing there are in fact systems out there that are servicing their countries well. But you won't acknowledge any of them because you're an ignorant hick who thinks anything you don't like must be socialism.

 

[dblack]

Again....none.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about solutions based in reality.

Yeah, I know. You don't get it. But I'll try one more time. My solutions are none of your business. And yours are none of mine. I'll deal with my health issues, you deal with yours.


To put it another way, I don't accept your premise that this is a problem that "we" have to solve together. Just as my decisions regarding how to provide for all of my other personal needs aren't a matter of public policy debate.

I get it, you don't like living in a civilized society. That's the problem. I'm sure there are plenty of 3rd world nations that would love your "**** you, I got mine" mentality. Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cares for one another.

That's the irony. I actually believe that. You, actually, don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be so hell bent on forcing the matter with government mandates.

 

[kaz]

Which healthcare system costs more than ours? Name just one.

Before Obamacare or after? After Obamacare I can't imagine anyone's does.

Before. Go for it. Tell us which system was more expensive in the last 20 years.

I'll go for it, but can you clarify what point you're making so I can address it most effectively? I said healthcare was a disaster in socialized countries. The rich leave and get better care outside, the death rates for cancer and cardiovascular diseases are actually higher in socialized countries and people can't get access to specialists sometimes until long after they are dead. I'm not clear what point you're making exactly by focusing now on "costs" only. Can you clarify.

 

[kaz]

Thanks for proving my point. Our system is great for the rich. What about the other 99% of the country that isn't rich? That includes you.

It's funny how over and over you hear the words and don't grasp what they mean when put together.

What I said is in your socialist countries, the rich aren't impacted by your socialism like the masses are. Seriously, you see that as an argument for our going socialist? LOL.

First of all, you obviously don't understand the definition of Socialism. Second, you are afraid to name a single country in the world outside of ours which has a good healthcare system. Yet, there is plenty of data that a simple Google search will return showing there are in fact systems out there that are servicing their countries well. But you won't acknowledge any of them because you're an ignorant hick who thinks anything you don't like must be socialism.

Socialism is central economic planning. Only government can plan centrally, because only they can use force to impose their will. The distinction between government owned and government controlled is zero. If your car is parked in your neighbor's driveway and they have the keys, it's not really your car, it's theirs.

And I keep saying we have had the best medical system, so I am not grasping your attempt to get me to name good ones. I keep saying our peers are all socialist, theirs aren't as good. The best ones as we continue to go socialist will be third world countries that do with medical like the Cayman Islands do with finance, they become free zones where people who can afford treatment from industrialized countries will go to escape government controls. Those of you who can't afford it will just die faster like you do in the industrialized socialist countries now.

 

[Bombur]

It's funny how over and over you hear the words and don't grasp what they mean when put together.

What I said is in your socialist countries, the rich aren't impacted by your socialism like the masses are. Seriously, you see that as an argument for our going socialist? LOL.

First of all, you obviously don't understand the definition of Socialism. Second, you are afraid to name a single country in the world outside of ours which has a good healthcare system. Yet, there is plenty of data that a simple Google search will return showing there are in fact systems out there that are servicing their countries well. But you won't acknowledge any of them because you're an ignorant hick who thinks anything you don't like must be socialism.

Socialism is central economic planning. Only government can plan centrally, because only they can use force to impose their will. The distinction between government owned and government controlled is zero. If your car is parked in your neighbor's driveway and they have the keys, it's not really your car, it's theirs.

And I keep saying we have had the best medical system, so I am not grasping your attempt to get me to name good ones. I keep saying our peers are all socialist, theirs aren't as good. The best ones as we continue to go socialist will be third world countries that do with medical like the Cayman Islands do with finance, they become free zones where people who can afford treatment from industrialized countries will go to escape government controls. Those of you who can't afford it will just die faster like you do in the industrialized socialist countries now.

 

[The Rabbi]

Again....none.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about solutions based in reality.

So because no one has tried it, it is not a solution based in reality?
What is not based in reality is the idea that we are going to implement a socialist scheme like Obamacare, which has been tried in the states many times and failed, and for some reason this time it will be different.

We've had Obamacare before?? Weird, when was that?

Maine, Massachusetts, Tennessee, probably a few others. All of them failed.

 

[The Rabbi]

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

Yes. The proof is they are all marked by soaring costs and vain attempts to rein those costs in. Go ahead an post a few examples.

Which healthcare system costs more than ours? Name just one.

Too bad that wasn't what I wrote. But thanks for moving those goalposts.

 

[The Rabbi]

I've already told you that subsidies are available for those who can't afford it. You ignored that for some reason.

And if someone doesn't get seriously ill, then I'd consider that a good thing. Apparently you don't.

And the subsidies dont pay for the entire premium, leaving people who cannot afford it with a big bill for their premiums.
So do you support being able to opt out, or do you think that is just a GOP plan to undercut Obamacare?

The subsidies can pay for the whole premium for those who need it. And people can "opt out" if they truly can't afford it. That's how the law currently is. What's the problem?

Where can people opt out? The mandate is universal.