Let's Play Devil's Advocate!

[Fizz]

The problem with your story is that , well, that's not what happened. When President Bush was first told they only knew that a plane had crashed into the WTC. No one knew at that time how far this was going that day. It was only after the second airliner hit that everyone knew it was no accident. And the Secret Service took all appropriate measures.

Very good point, a plane hitting the World Trade Center wouldn't be that big of a shock, aircraft flew by them all day while flying up the Hudson on approach to La Guardia like the Southwest 737 in this shot I took on September 7th 2001. The aircraft is to the right of the Twin Towers.

great pic. thanks.

 

[Fizz]

And also: "If no plane crashed, why claim that a plane crashed?"
And if explosives took down the WTC, why have planes crash into it? Straight explosives had been used in 1993, so that would be believable. And if using planes, why bother with explosives? The crashes themselves would be enough for whatever reason it is postulated.

And if it was a missle, not a plane, at the Pentagon, why say it was a plane? Faking a plane wreck and fabricating or bribing all the passengers makes no sense. Just use a missle, and say it was a missle.

The "inside job" claim requires not just a vast conspiracy, but some huge stretches of the imagination as to why anyone would do it that way.

sorry. these people are twoofers and dont follow logic. the very good points that you bring up make no sense to them. they would rather believe bizarre scenarios posted on youtube than follow logic.

 

[DiveCon]

And also: "If no plane crashed, why claim that a plane crashed?"
And if explosives took down the WTC, why have planes crash into it? Straight explosives had been used in 1993, so that would be believable. And if using planes, why bother with explosives? The crashes themselves would be enough for whatever reason it is postulated.

And if it was a missle, not a plane, at the Pentagon, why say it was a plane? Faking a plane wreck and fabricating or bribing all the passengers makes no sense. Just use a missle, and say it was a missle.

The "inside job" claim requires not just a vast conspiracy, but some huge stretches of the imagination as to why anyone would do it that way.

exactly, the buildings collapsing would not have been required for it to have been a terrorist attack
just the plane strikes alone would have sufficed

 

[slackjawed]

yet another treasonous twoofer post, yawn.

This just in.........................breaking news........................................................................................

Lee Harvey Oswald is STILL dead.




That is all.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The problem with your story is that , well, that's not what happened. When President Bush was first told they only knew that a plane had crashed into the WTC. No one knew at that time how far this was going that day. It was only after the second airliner hit that everyone knew it was no accident. And the Secret Service took all appropriate measures.

Very good point, a plane hitting the World Trade Center wouldn't be that big of a shock, aircraft flew by them all day while flying up the Hudson on approach to La Guardia like the Southwest 737 in this shot I took on September 7th 2001. The aircraft is to the right of the Twin Towers.

you dude have been taken in by disinformation agent Ollie.One of many agents that have penetrated these boards and spills lies constantly to fit his version of events and omits evidence and facts.candy corn and fizz are two agents as well that have penetrated these boards that you should never waste the time reading the posts of if you want to learn the truth. btw your extremely naive if you believe people should vote democrat because BOTH parties are corrupt and neither represent the people.vote third party EVERY TIME.

 

[candycorn]

The problem with your story is that , well, that's not what happened. When President Bush was first told they only knew that a plane had crashed into the WTC. No one knew at that time how far this was going that day. It was only after the second airliner hit that everyone knew it was no accident. And the Secret Service took all appropriate measures.

Very good point, a plane hitting the World Trade Center wouldn't be that big of a shock, aircraft flew by them all day while flying up the Hudson on approach to La Guardia like the Southwest 737 in this shot I took on September 7th 2001. The aircraft is to the right of the Twin Towers.

you dude have been taken in by disinformation agent Ollie.One of many agents that have penetrated these boards and spills lies constantly to fit his version of events and omits evidence and facts.candy corn and fizz are two agents as well that have penetrated these boards that you should never waste the time reading the posts of if you want to learn the truth.

Simple yes or no question; do you still believe that the CIA paid the Mossad to plant bombs in WTC 1,2, & 7 on 9/11? Simple yes or no question. I'm betting you won't answer.
It must suck to be too scared to answer a simple question.

 

[Fizz]

you dude have been taken in by disinformation agent Ollie.One of many agents that have penetrated these boards and spills lies constantly to fit his version of events and omits evidence and facts.candy corn and fizz are two agents as well that have penetrated these boards that you should never waste the time reading the posts of if you want to learn the truth.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

And also: "If no plane crashed, why claim that a plane crashed?"
And if explosives took down the WTC, why have planes crash into it? Straight explosives had been used in 1993, so that would be believable. And if using planes, why bother with explosives? The crashes themselves would be enough for whatever reason it is postulated.

And if it was a missle, not a plane, at the Pentagon, why say it was a plane? Faking a plane wreck and fabricating or bribing all the passengers makes no sense. Just use a missle, and say it was a missle.

The "inside job" claim requires not just a vast conspiracy, but some huge stretches of the imagination as to why anyone would do it that way.

you really need to think outside the box.something most people here cant do..how could they sell the story that muslins were behind the attacks if they didnt have the planes crash into the towers? they didnt use the explosive story this time because Bush's brother and cousin were head of the security for the towers up to the point of 9/11-his cousin was in charge of the security at least up to that day, when that fact became known,they would know it was an inside job cause they could not have penetrated past their security without them knowing.thats why agants ollie,fizz and candycorn troll boy,will defend the official version to no end even though through debris that was taken,scientists discovered evidence of thermite explosives used.

hundreds of architects and engineers also dont accept the version of events,not to mention demolition experts,firemen,policemen and first responders,or surviving witnesses,stop listening to the corporate controlled media and government agencys and START listeing to the witnesses and experts.sheesh.

and sorry your dead wrong,the crashes would NOT be good enough,they designed those towers so they would withstand an impact from MULTIPLE airliners.you really need to do your research.

you should ask the perpetraters in the bush administration that question under oath why use a plane.of course they wont have to answer questions under oath since they are protected by the corrupt court systems and a corrupt and willing congress.

are you joking? to accept the offical version requires MORE of a huge imiagination and in case you arent aware of this,there have been many government conspiracys that took place over the years involving thousands that took place over the years but were kept secret.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

like I said,stop listening to the corporate controlled media,government agencys and disinformation agents like fizz,ollie,and candy corn troll boy that have penetrated these boards who ignore evidence and facts and START listening to witnesses and experts.

 

[Shorebreak]

Well kids, it looks like the deniers have dug themselves into a nice hole on this one. I'm going to congratulate them on their digging ability - nice job everyone!



In case you are new to this thread, I presented the scenario at Booker Elementary School in Florida on the morning of 9/11, including the fact that the secret service was aware of multiple hijackings of airliners yet they did nothing.

The deniers on the forum rallied their wagons and decided to circle around their point that the Secret Service wasn't aware of potential hijackings until after the 2nd tower was struck. They didn't explain why the President continued to remain in a known public location for the next 30 minutes after the 2nd impact because they believed that my point regarding the Secret Service before the 2nd impact was a weak point that they could use to distract from my entire post. If you review their posts, once they stuck onto their "the secret service didn't know" revision, they then started in on a series of ad hominem attacks and othedr posts just to generally include more criticism and derision.

The first thing that I did when they claimed that the Secret Service was unaware was to expose them for revising the official story in order to defend their version of the official story. They accused me of making it up that the Secret Service was aware of hijacked aircraft prior to the 2nd tower impact.

As a result of their lack of knowledge on the subject and the venom that they inject into their posts, I decided I'd let them keep digging so that there would be enough room for all of them inside their new hole.

So here it is, folks. Please don't be shy. The source is your own bible on 9/11 - the official story of what happened. On the permanent record, the FAA officially notified the 9/11 Commission that they had Secret Service on the telephone just minutes after the FIRST airplane hit the towers, and that the conversation included details of multiple communications losses, transponder changes, and unauthorized course changes.




National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

FAA Communications with NORAD on September 11th, 2001. "Within minutes after the first aircraft hit the World Trade Center, the FAA immediately established several phone bridges that included FAA field facilities, the FAA command center, FAA headquarters, DOD, the Secret Service and other government agencies. The U.S. Air Force liaison to the FAA immediately joined the FAA headquarters phone bridge and established contact with NORAD on a separate line. The FAA shared real-time information on the phone bridges about the unfolding events, including information about loss of communication with aircraft, loss of transponder signals, unauthorized changes in course, and other actions being taken by all the flights of interest, including Flight 77. Other parties on the phone bridges in turn shared information about actions they were taken. NORAD logs indicate that the FAA made formal notification about American Flight 77 at 9:24 a.m. But information about the flight was conveyed continuously during the phone bridges before the formal notification."

 

[slackjawed]

This thread is going to be a great hit in the bar tonight, and get me plenty of good tips!

 

[pinqy]

you really need to think outside the box.something most people here cant do..how could they sell the story that muslins were behind the attacks if they didnt have the planes crash into the towers?

Ummm same way they did in 1993 when they claimed Muslims were behind the attack then that used explosives and not planes.

they didnt use the explosive story this time because Bush's brother and cousin were head of the security for the towers up to the point of 9/11-his cousin was in charge of the security at least up to that day, when that fact became known,they would know it was an inside job cause they could not have penetrated past their security without them knowing.

Why couldn't they have? They penetrated security fine enough in 93. McViegh did fine in Oklahoma City. etc. Are you seriously claiming that the only way anyone could ever penetrate security is through an inside job? That's ridiculous.

and sorry your dead wrong,the crashes would NOT be good enough,they designed those towers so they would withstand an impact from MULTIPLE airliners.

So what? Why would it matter? The attack would be what was important.


And I note you ignored the question on the Pentagon and about Flight 93.

Tell you what....present your Positive evidence for a conspiracy. That does NOT mean just picking holes..it means stating your version of what happened and specific positive evidence that that's what happened.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The problem with your story is that , well, that's not what happened. When President Bush was first told they only knew that a plane had crashed into the WTC. No one knew at that time how far this was going that day. It was only after the second airliner hit that everyone knew it was no accident. And the Secret Service took all appropriate measures.

Very good point, a plane hitting the World Trade Center wouldn't be that big of a shock, aircraft flew by them all day while flying up the Hudson on approach to La Guardia like the Southwest 737 in this shot I took on September 7th 2001. The aircraft is to the right of the Twin Towers.

you dude have been taken in by disinformation agent Ollie.One of many agents that have penetrated these boards and spills lies constantly to fit his version of events and omits evidence and facts.candy corn and fizz are two agents as well that have penetrated these boards that you should never waste the time reading the posts of if you want to learn the truth. btw your extremely naive if you believe people should vote democrat because BOTH parties are corrupt and neither represent the people.vote third party EVERY TIME.

I do not lie asswipe. But you are too stupid to understand truth. And glad to know you always vote third party, that way we at least know your voice isn't heard.

 

[Gamolon]

Well kids, it looks like the deniers have dug themselves into a nice hole on this one. I'm going to congratulate them on their digging ability - nice job everyone!



In case you are new to this thread, I presented the scenario at Booker Elementary School in Florida on the morning of 9/11, including the fact that the secret service was aware of multiple hijackings of airliners yet they did nothing.

The deniers on the forum rallied their wagons and decided to circle around their point that the Secret Service wasn't aware of potential hijackings until after the 2nd tower was struck. They didn't explain why the President continued to remain in a known public location for the next 30 minutes after the 2nd impact because they believed that my point regarding the Secret Service before the 2nd impact was a weak point that they could use to distract from my entire post. If you review their posts, once they stuck onto their "the secret service didn't know" revision, they then started in on a series of ad hominem attacks and othedr posts just to generally include more criticism and derision.

The first thing that I did when they claimed that the Secret Service was unaware was to expose them for revising the official story in order to defend their version of the official story. They accused me of making it up that the Secret Service was aware of hijacked aircraft prior to the 2nd tower impact.

As a result of their lack of knowledge on the subject and the venom that they inject into their posts, I decided I'd let them keep digging so that there would be enough room for all of them inside their new hole.

So here it is, folks. Please don't be shy. The source is your own bible on 9/11 - the official story of what happened. On the permanent record, the FAA officially notified the 9/11 Commission that they had Secret Service on the telephone just minutes after the FIRST airplane hit the towers, and that the conversation included details of multiple communications losses, transponder changes, and unauthorized course changes.




National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

FAA Communications with NORAD on September 11th, 2001. "Within minutes after the first aircraft hit the World Trade Center, the FAA immediately established several phone bridges that included FAA field facilities, the FAA command center, FAA headquarters, DOD, the Secret Service and other government agencies. The U.S. Air Force liaison to the FAA immediately joined the FAA headquarters phone bridge and established contact with NORAD on a separate line. The FAA shared real-time information on the phone bridges about the unfolding events, including information about loss of communication with aircraft, loss of transponder signals, unauthorized changes in course, and other actions being taken by all the flights of interest, including Flight 77. Other parties on the phone bridges in turn shared information about actions they were taken. NORAD logs indicate that the FAA made formal notification about American Flight 77 at 9:24 a.m. But information about the flight was conveyed continuously during the phone bridges before the formal notification."

Interesting...

A little after 8:45 a.m., my chief of staff, John Flaherty, interrupted the meeting. He asked Administrator Garvey and me to step into my office, where he told me that news agencies were reporting that some type of aircraft had flown into one of the towers of New York's World Trade Center.

Information was preliminary, so we did not know what kind of aircraft nor whether or not it was intentional.

So you are implying that they knew we were under attack by hijacked planes a few minutes after the first tower was hit at 8:46 a.m.? According to my quote above at that same time, all they had was PRELIMINARY information and not sure it was intentional.

So how did the Secret Service know it was an attack with a hijacked plane if all they had at that point was PRELIMINARY information?

 

[Gamolon]

Questions.

1. Had the US ever been attacked previously by hijacked planes?

2. At what time was it confirmed that the US was UNDER ATTACK from HIJACKED PLANES SLAMMING INTO BUILDINGS?

3. In the past, when a plane was reported as being hijacked, did they move the president into hiding? Is there any precedent to this action concerning the president or is there a protocol that is set into motion when a plane hijack occurs that they are supposed to move the president into hiding?

 

[candycorn]

you really need to think outside the box.something most people here cant do..how could they sell the story that muslins were behind the attacks if they didnt have the planes crash into the towers?

Ummm same way they did in 1993 when they claimed Muslims were behind the attack then that used explosives and not planes.

they didnt use the explosive story this time because Bush's brother and cousin were head of the security for the towers up to the point of 9/11-his cousin was in charge of the security at least up to that day, when that fact became known,they would know it was an inside job cause they could not have penetrated past their security without them knowing.

Why couldn't they have? They penetrated security fine enough in 93. McViegh did fine in Oklahoma City. etc. Are you seriously claiming that the only way anyone could ever penetrate security is through an inside job? That's ridiculous.

and sorry your dead wrong,the crashes would NOT be good enough,they designed those towers so they would withstand an impact from MULTIPLE airliners.

So what? Why would it matter? The attack would be what was important.


And I note you ignored the question on the Pentagon and about Flight 93.

Tell you what....present your Positive evidence for a conspiracy. That does NOT mean just picking holes..it means stating your version of what happened and specific positive evidence that that's what happened.

He won't do it. But keep asking him. Eventually, that drives him away. Get ready to have a recommendation for 47 videos--many of which contradict each other--which will contain "proof of the conspiracy".

 

[pinqy]

He won't do it. But keep asking him. Eventually, that drives him away. Get ready to have a recommendation for 47 videos--many of which contradict each other--which will contain "proof of the conspiracy".

Oh, I know...this is just like dealing with Creationists. They don't understand positive evidence and just cite any perceived flaws in the accepted view as proof of their own position.

 

[Shorebreak]

Well kids, it looks like the deniers have dug themselves into a nice hole on this one. I'm going to congratulate them on their digging ability - nice job everyone!



In case you are new to this thread, I presented the scenario at Booker Elementary School in Florida on the morning of 9/11, including the fact that the secret service was aware of multiple hijackings of airliners yet they did nothing.

The deniers on the forum rallied their wagons and decided to circle around their point that the Secret Service wasn't aware of potential hijackings until after the 2nd tower was struck. They didn't explain why the President continued to remain in a known public location for the next 30 minutes after the 2nd impact because they believed that my point regarding the Secret Service before the 2nd impact was a weak point that they could use to distract from my entire post. If you review their posts, once they stuck onto their "the secret service didn't know" revision, they then started in on a series of ad hominem attacks and othedr posts just to generally include more criticism and derision.

The first thing that I did when they claimed that the Secret Service was unaware was to expose them for revising the official story in order to defend their version of the official story. They accused me of making it up that the Secret Service was aware of hijacked aircraft prior to the 2nd tower impact.

As a result of their lack of knowledge on the subject and the venom that they inject into their posts, I decided I'd let them keep digging so that there would be enough room for all of them inside their new hole.

So here it is, folks. Please don't be shy. The source is your own bible on 9/11 - the official story of what happened. On the permanent record, the FAA officially notified the 9/11 Commission that they had Secret Service on the telephone just minutes after the FIRST airplane hit the towers, and that the conversation included details of multiple communications losses, transponder changes, and unauthorized course changes.




National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

FAA Communications with NORAD on September 11th, 2001. "Within minutes after the first aircraft hit the World Trade Center, the FAA immediately established several phone bridges that included FAA field facilities, the FAA command center, FAA headquarters, DOD, the Secret Service and other government agencies. The U.S. Air Force liaison to the FAA immediately joined the FAA headquarters phone bridge and established contact with NORAD on a separate line. The FAA shared real-time information on the phone bridges about the unfolding events, including information about loss of communication with aircraft, loss of transponder signals, unauthorized changes in course, and other actions being taken by all the flights of interest, including Flight 77. Other parties on the phone bridges in turn shared information about actions they were taken. NORAD logs indicate that the FAA made formal notification about American Flight 77 at 9:24 a.m. But information about the flight was conveyed continuously during the phone bridges before the formal notification."

Interesting...

A little after 8:45 a.m., my chief of staff, John Flaherty, interrupted the meeting. He asked Administrator Garvey and me to step into my office, where he told me that news agencies were reporting that some type of aircraft had flown into one of the towers of New York's World Trade Center.

Information was preliminary, so we did not know what kind of aircraft nor whether or not it was intentional.

So you are implying that they knew we were under attack by hijacked planes a few minutes after the first tower was hit at 8:46 a.m.? According to my quote above at that same time, all they had was PRELIMINARY information and not sure it was intentional.

So how did the Secret Service know it was an attack with a hijacked plane if all they had at that point was PRELIMINARY information?

If you had read my post you wouldn't be asking the question. I'm not implying anything. I've simply posted the facts from the official record. The FAA told the 9/11 Commission that they had the Secret Service on the line minutes after the first impact and that they were discussing multiple transponder issues and course deviations that were occuring at that time.

If that's too much to swallow, take it up with the FAA. BTW, they never said that Norm Minnetta was on the line at that time so it doesn't surprise me at all that he didn't have that download yet that the Secret Service was getting real time from their open line.

 

[pinqy]

If you had read my post you wouldn't be asking the question. I'm not implying anything. I've simply posted the facts from the official record. The FAA told the 9/11 Commission that they had the Secret Service on the line minutes after the first impact and that they were discussing multiple transponder issues and course deviations that were occuring at that time.

If that's too much to swallow, take it up with the FAA. BTW, they never said that Norm Minnetta was on the line at that time so it doesn't surprise me at all that he didn't have that download yet that the Secret Service was getting real time from their open line.

But that's NOT the same thing as saying they knew there were multiple hijacked planes, or even that they knew the first hit was deliberate. You're claiming very specific knowledge on the part of the Secret Service but you haven't backed that up. Part of the Secret Service being contacted by the FAA does NOT mean they all knew exactly what was going on or that complete, accurate, info was given to the President's detail.

 

[SFC Ollie]

8:55: President George W. Bush is at Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida as part of a scheduled visit to promote education when presidential advisor Karl Rove, who is with Bush, informs him that a small twin-engine plane has crashed into the World Trade Center. Before entering the classroom, the President speaks to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, who is at the White House. She first tells him it was a twin-engine aircraft—and then a commercial aircraft—that had struck the World Trade Center, adding “that’s all we know right now, Mr. President.”[1]