Let's address the REAL issue.

[beagle9]

Violent video games give you high score for the MOST KILLS correct? Your name gets enshrined for top score.

Vigilante justice in movie themes.

Detailed descriptions of how a killer commits the crime on CSI.

The only thing I find strange at all is the denial this has anything to do with it.

I think it can be a cocktail of sorts yes of course, but we would like to narrow it down to the actual culprit also.. Might be that if we can get to the actuall culprit, then the rest would not even be something to worry about anymore, so we are looking hard for what is pulling the trigger on these cats (i.e. the drug induced, evil brain damaged addict), or what maybe ?

 

[beagle9]

Someone mentioned a drug abuse registery be formed now specifically, and maybe to add peoples names that are in trouble over drugs in life or are getting into trouble by abusing prescription drugs and/or illegal drugs, and this coupled with being found afterwards that they were abusing specific drugs that can alter the mind in ways in which can make them troubled or become dangerous to others or even suicidal to themselves. So I thought hmmmmmm, ya know what ? This may not be such a bad idea actually after all, but as long as it is done right and thought out properly where as to not be mis-interpreted or abused by certain people who would abuse it in a very bad way.

What I think this would also do, is to help stop all the false medical problems that people say that they are having now as prescription addicts, and this where they are somehow getting these drugs prescribed in order to sell them or either to take them when they don't need them.

How so we might ask ?

Because once they find out they are fixing to be added to a national or state registry, and this once coming out of their current trouble in which they were in with drugs or prescription drug abuse, and to have others like future employers etc. maybe looking at such a registry on down the line and/or studying it, then alot of this stuff may go away quicker than we think afterwards.. Bad doctors prescribing such drugs illegally, would fear being added to the registery also, so they may give their illegal activity up as well..

If a persons name ends up on the registry, they could work to get it off by getting clean finally, and then being promoted by their parole officer or sponsor to be removed after progress is made by said person who was afflicted in this way.

Not talking about people who are using drugs as prescibed to them legally and need them, but this is for the ones who are using them illegally and are abusing them..

 

[PredFan]

The last thing I will say about gun control on this thread is that gun control is less about saving lives and more about disarming innocent people.

Those of us who are interested in the subject of "why" these horrible things happen should ignore any attempt to steer the talk to gun control.

 

[jillian]

Violent video games give you high score for the MOST KILLS correct? Your name gets enshrined for top score.

Vigilante justice in movie themes.

Detailed descriptions of how a killer commits the crime on CSI.

The only thing I find strange at all is the denial this has anything to do with it.

there is speculation that those games desensitize people. but i'd think it would only be an issue with someone who is already unstable.

which brings us back to the mental illness issue.

 

[jillian]

The last thing I will say about gun control on this thread is that gun control is less about saving lives and more about disarming innocent people.

Those of us who are interested in the subject of "why" these horrible things happen should ignore any attempt to steer the talk to gun control.

only because you're a moron

 

[PredFan]

I don't necessarily agree with all of these, just listing them.

1. Our society in general.

Vague I know, but a discussion about "Our Society" in general can lead to some insight, imo.

2. Our culture of violence.

Which would include violent movies, violent video games, violent TV shows, glorifying violence in song, etc.

3. Our culture of entitlement.

A feeling of entitlement, not necessarily entitlement programs. Kids that grow up getting all of their wants and needs met, and then growing up to find a world not so focusses on them.

4. Drugging kids.

The choice to give drugs to the young as a way to contol behavior.

5. Drugging adults.

Anti-depressives, etc.

6. The media.

Which would include what was mentioned in #2, plus the news media rushing in to provide the gory details, and focus on the emotions and providing infamy to the killer.

7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.

I don't think anyone would say that we handle the mentally ill properly.

8. Disenfranchizement.

Which would include #3, plus the mentally ill, and those who's lives have run aground.

 

[PredFan]

Violent video games give you high score for the MOST KILLS correct? Your name gets enshrined for top score.

Vigilante justice in movie themes.

Detailed descriptions of how a killer commits the crime on CSI.

The only thing I find strange at all is the denial this has anything to do with it.

there is speculation that those games desensitize people. but i'd think it would only be an issue with someone who is already unstable.

which brings us back to the mental illness issue.

I don't think anyone is saying that every person who plays video games will commit these types of crimes but the point that these games can desensitize people to violence is valid. A person who is mentally ill such as the killer from Friday COULD be effected by these games. I don't think that the answer is to ban the games, but they can be a piece of the puzzle.

 

[Foxfyre]

Violent video games give you high score for the MOST KILLS correct? Your name gets enshrined for top score.

Vigilante justice in movie themes.

Detailed descriptions of how a killer commits the crime on CSI.

The only thing I find strange at all is the denial this has anything to do with it.

there is speculation that those games desensitize people. but i'd think it would only be an issue with someone who is already unstable.

which brings us back to the mental illness issue.

It isn't just video games though. For a long time gratuitous graphic violence has been available without restrictions of any kind for kids as young as PG13 in the movies and on televsion and even Disney movies for the youngest have more graphic violence than was once socially acceptable. Kids are plenty smart enough to differentiate between the violence in say the Elmer Fudd/Bugs Bunny cartoons or the Coyote and the Roadrunner.

But can they mentally separate out the violence they see in Batman, Spiderman, Superman movies? Song lyrics, especially rap, is full of some of the most unconscionable violence and nobody even blinks any more. Our language has become more coarse, insulting, graphic, and suggestive. We are in a culture in which chidlren who were once taught respect, civility, and courtesy for their elders, most especially those in authority, to a litigious culture in which such values are now held mostly in contempt and lashing out in anger to punish those who 'offend' us is not only the norm, but encouraged.

Amd as we become a society more and more desensitized to violence, blood, pain, and cruelty and righteous retaliation, add in mind altering drugs and a sense of entitlement and I think it makes for a very volatile mix, most especially in those who are irrationally angry and via mental illness or drug induced, mentally unstable.

 

[PredFan]

Violent video games give you high score for the MOST KILLS correct? Your name gets enshrined for top score.

Vigilante justice in movie themes.

Detailed descriptions of how a killer commits the crime on CSI.

The only thing I find strange at all is the denial this has anything to do with it.

there is speculation that those games desensitize people. but i'd think it would only be an issue with someone who is already unstable.

which brings us back to the mental illness issue.

It isn't just video games though. For a long time gratuitous graphic violence has been available without restrictions of any kind for kids as young as PG13 in the movies and on televsion and even Disney movies for the youngest have more graphic violence than was once socially acceptable. Kids are plenty smart enough to differentiate between the violence in say the Elmer Fudd/Bugs Bunny cartoons or the Coyote and the Roadrunner.

But can they mentally separate out the violence they see in Batman, Spiderman, Superman movies? Song lyrics, especially rap, is full of some of the most unconscionable violence and nobody even blinks any more. Our language has become more coarse, insulting, graphic, and suggestive. We are in a culture in which chidlren who were once taught respect, civility, and courtesy for their elders, most especially those in authority, to a litigious culture in which such values are now held mostly in contempt and lashing out in anger to punish those who 'offend' us is not only the norm, but encouraged.

Amd as we become a society more and more desensitized to violence, blood, pain, and cruelty and righteous retaliation, add in mind altering drugs and a sense of entitlement and I think it makes for a very volatile mix, most especially in those who are irrationally angry and via mental illness or drug induced, mentally unstable.

I don't think one can dismiss any piece of the puzzle, nor can anyone deny that video games may be part of the puzzle that helps desensitize us to violence. That doesn't mean that we get rid of violent video games and the problem is solved.

 

[Foxfyre]

there is speculation that those games desensitize people. but i'd think it would only be an issue with someone who is already unstable.

which brings us back to the mental illness issue.

It isn't just video games though. For a long time gratuitous graphic violence has been available without restrictions of any kind for kids as young as PG13 in the movies and on televsion and even Disney movies for the youngest have more graphic violence than was once socially acceptable. Kids are plenty smart enough to differentiate between the violence in say the Elmer Fudd/Bugs Bunny cartoons or the Coyote and the Roadrunner.

But can they mentally separate out the violence they see in Batman, Spiderman, Superman movies? Song lyrics, especially rap, is full of some of the most unconscionable violence and nobody even blinks any more. Our language has become more coarse, insulting, graphic, and suggestive. We are in a culture in which chidlren who were once taught respect, civility, and courtesy for their elders, most especially those in authority, to a litigious culture in which such values are now held mostly in contempt and lashing out in anger to punish those who 'offend' us is not only the norm, but encouraged.

Amd as we become a society more and more desensitized to violence, blood, pain, and cruelty and righteous retaliation, add in mind altering drugs and a sense of entitlement and I think it makes for a very volatile mix, most especially in those who are irrationally angry and via mental illness or drug induced, mentally unstable.

I don't think one can dismiss any piece of the puzzle, nor can anyone deny that video games may be part of the puzzle that helps desensitize us to violence. That doesn't mean that we get rid of violent video games and the problem is solved.

Agreed. And there is always the danger of justifying the anger and violence of the gunman by blaming society. Look how quickly some jumped on the bandwagon to blame the guns or blame the bullies or blame the mother and/or to blame anybody or anything but the gunman. This I also think could be a factor. The would be perpetrator is already desensitized to consicence and violence and is already angry. And if he sees that he can generate attention for himself and sympathy and justification for his actions, could that be factor in increasing motive for the act?

 

[saveliberty]

I would not suggest sexual or violent scenes need to be deleted from a movie either. Except in many cases, it is inserted for no other reason than creating movie revenue, not to help the storyline.

 

[PredFan]

It isn't just video games though. For a long time gratuitous graphic violence has been available without restrictions of any kind for kids as young as PG13 in the movies and on televsion and even Disney movies for the youngest have more graphic violence than was once socially acceptable. Kids are plenty smart enough to differentiate between the violence in say the Elmer Fudd/Bugs Bunny cartoons or the Coyote and the Roadrunner.

But can they mentally separate out the violence they see in Batman, Spiderman, Superman movies? Song lyrics, especially rap, is full of some of the most unconscionable violence and nobody even blinks any more. Our language has become more coarse, insulting, graphic, and suggestive. We are in a culture in which chidlren who were once taught respect, civility, and courtesy for their elders, most especially those in authority, to a litigious culture in which such values are now held mostly in contempt and lashing out in anger to punish those who 'offend' us is not only the norm, but encouraged.

Amd as we become a society more and more desensitized to violence, blood, pain, and cruelty and righteous retaliation, add in mind altering drugs and a sense of entitlement and I think it makes for a very volatile mix, most especially in those who are irrationally angry and via mental illness or drug induced, mentally unstable.

I don't think one can dismiss any piece of the puzzle, nor can anyone deny that video games may be part of the puzzle that helps desensitize us to violence. That doesn't mean that we get rid of violent video games and the problem is solved.

Agreed. And there is always the danger of justifying the anger and violence of the gunman by blaming society.

Ha! Good point.

Look how quickly some jumped on the bandwagon to blame the guns or blame the bullies or blame the mother and/or to blame anybody or anything but the gunman. This I also think could be a factor. The would be perpetrator is already desensitized to consicence and violence and is already angry. And if he sees that he can generate attention for himself and sympathy and justification for his actions, could that be factor in increasing motive for the act?

You are obviously talking about the next killer. Yes there is a danger of that but if we concider every possibility, then we get paralized and cannot do anything to fix the problem for fear of what it could cause the next killer to so.

Interesting point.

 

[PredFan]

I would not suggest sexual or violent scenes need to be deleted from a movie either. Except in many cases, it is inserted for no other reason than creating movie revenue, not to help the storyline.

The whole thing about banning stuff bothers me. Who will do that banning? The government of course and that is never good.

Which I think kind of brings us to just about the only thing we reasonable can do, and that's figure out a way to identify those who are at high risk of this type of violent act.

Unfortunately, very few of them live to be studied.

 

[Mustang]

Violent video games give you high score for the MOST KILLS correct? Your name gets enshrined for top score.

Vigilante justice in movie themes.

Detailed descriptions of how a killer commits the crime on CSI.

The only thing I find strange at all is the denial this has anything to do with it.

You're confusing correlation with causation. A person who's predisposed to violence will invariably be drawn to violent imagery and guns. That doesn't mean that other people who are not so inclined will be influenced to participate in violence just because they've been exposed to video games or violent movies.

 

[PredFan]

WE can't just look at these people and ban everything they used to do because it might cause someone else to do it.

What we need to do is figure out how to identify and help these individuals.

 

[saveliberty]

I would not suggest sexual or violent scenes need to be deleted from a movie either. Except in many cases, it is inserted for no other reason than creating movie revenue, not to help the storyline.

The whole thing about banning stuff bothers me. Who will do that banning? The government of course and that is never good.

Which I think kind of brings us to just about the only thing we reasonable can do, and that's figure out a way to identify those who are at high risk of this type of violent act.

Unfortunately, very few of them live to be studied.

I didn't use the word ban did I Pred?

 

[PredFan]

I would not suggest sexual or violent scenes need to be deleted from a movie either. Except in many cases, it is inserted for no other reason than creating movie revenue, not to help the storyline.

The whole thing about banning stuff bothers me. Who will do that banning? The government of course and that is never good.

Which I think kind of brings us to just about the only thing we reasonable can do, and that's figure out a way to identify those who are at high risk of this type of violent act.

Unfortunately, very few of them live to be studied.

I didn't use the word ban did I Pred?

I don't believe so. But the logical progression from blaming something for these killings is banning them, and that bothers me.

 

[saveliberty]

You're confusing correlation with causation. A person who's predisposed to violence will invariably be drawn to violent imagery and guns. That doesn't mean that other people who are not so inclined will be influenced to participate in violence just because they've been exposed to video games or violent movies.

Did I say it caused the incident? If it correlates, which I think it does to a degree, it should be looked at more closely. While, I am here, can you tell me the benefits to an individual in watching this type of thing? Somehow, entertainment doesn't seem to outweigh preserved life. I didn't say ban by the way, just necessary to the storyline.

 

[saveliberty]

The whole thing about banning stuff bothers me. Who will do that banning? The government of course and that is never good.

Which I think kind of brings us to just about the only thing we reasonable can do, and that's figure out a way to identify those who are at high risk of this type of violent act.

Unfortunately, very few of them live to be studied.

I didn't use the word ban did I Pred?

I don't believe so. But the logical progression from blaming something for these killings is banning them, and that bothers me.

...and the societial benefit of gratuitous violence is?

 

[akelch]

The real issue is; Why do these shootings take place?

Possible reasons:

1. Our society in general.
2. Our culture of violence.
3. Our culture of entitlement.
4. Drugging kids.
5. Drugging adults.
6. The media.
7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.
8. Disenfranchizement.


Where are these lunatics coming from? How many more are out there?

9. Free will
Evil is in Man's nature. We can choose to follow God's word or we choose not to thus sin.
Once sin controls our actions we do evil.

The only weapon against evil is love and compassion. So follow God's word and love one another.