- Dec 29, 2008
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There is a huge cultural gap between the Arab ME and the West, so while some Arab leaders may decide to work with Israel as Sadat did, the Arab street in general distrusts it leaders almost as much as they distrust Israelis, so even if some kind of workable relationships develop between Israel and some of the Gulf Arab states, it will be impossible for Arab leaders to make it public.We agree on a lot of things, but as far as Israel is concerned, there is no Palestine, there is only the PA and the PA has no borders. Land and border issues cannot be profitably discussed without also discussing the security implications of any land or border agreement, and it is unimaginable that Israel's security can be protected without Israel's security forces operation throughout Judea and Samaria; it is also unimaginable that the Arabs would agree to this. So no matter how clever we are on this forum about working out equitable arrangements on land, borders and refugees, there can be no sovereign Arab state in any part of the territories unless Israel can be persuaded it no longer has to have its security forces operate throughout the territories, and I can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.Agreed. But I'm open to discussing other issues like citizenship, control of the Holy Places, water agreements, security, etc. I can't see why others wouldn't be.[
You are discussing only land, which is the easiest part to negotiate,
Well, practically, if they think they are going to get a Jew-free 1949 armistice line at this point they are just kidding themselves. And I think Abbas, at least, knows that. I don't think his sticking points are Gush Etzion and Ma'aleh Adumim. Those are a given on all sides.but even so, both Arafat and Abbas have refused to allow any of the Israeli communities in Judea and Samaria to stay with Israel
Yep. We agree. Jerusalem is going to be a huge sticking point. Personally, if I were on Team Palestine -- I would give it to Israel (provided there was access to the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque for Palestinians) but use that concession to get something BIG that I wanted.and both rejected giving up any part of east Jerusalem. Similarly, while polls have shown the majority of Israelis would be willing to make deep land concessions in a final status agreement, they have also shown Jerusalem is off the table.
Israel has demonstrated, over the past 60-odd years that she will ensure access of Muslims to their Holy Places. The Jordanians/Palestinians have amply demonstrated that they will not, so in my mind, it is absolutely imperative that Israel retains sovereignty over the Old City and the Mount.
Some sort of international arrangement MAY be possible, but not until the international community, including the UN (if it manages to survive the next decade), drastically changes their tune about the Jewish connection to obviously Jewish religious and historical places. The fact that we have to argue obvious facts in that regard is the very reason why we won't give up Jerusalem, imo.
Could not agree with you more. Eventually, though, as a long-term solution, Palestine will have to control its own borders. But it could be a gradual change. Doesn't have to happen overnight. We can do baby steps. Try, anyway.The more difficult issue is security. First, Gaza cannot be allowed to become a state with control of its borders while it is still ruled by a gang of terrorists. Similarly, since Abbas so old and weak and the government structure of the PA so weak, the PA cannot be allowed to have control over its borders.
I think you are arguing that the status quo must be maintained yet as the Palestinians aren't ready for a solution. We don't disagree.To prevent this from happening in Judea and Samaria, Israeli security forces must be in control of the borders and be able to operate throughout Judea and Samaria.
Again, this is something that any reasonable person will see can't be permitted to happen. We actually did discuss this, I neglected to mention. My solution is that any person of Palestinian origin who has been resettled anywhere in the world is no longer a refugee and therefore needs no more solutions. If they want to return to their ethnic home they can apply to immigrate just like anyone else. Any persons who are still truly refugees (ie stateless persons living in unacceptable conditions) should be given the choice of citizenship: Jordanian, Syrian, Palestinian, Lebanese and re-located to that country.And we still haven't gotten to Abbas' insistence that the millions of so called refugees be allowed to return to Israel. I don't see any area in which Abbas and Netanyahu can agree.
If we are going to provide compensation to people who lost homes and livelihoods due to the various wars -- and I don't see why we shouldn't -- both the Jewish and the Arabs should be compensated. And since the Jewish people have all ready been taken care of by the Jewish people, the Arabs should take care of the Arabs.
This article shows how impossible Arabs have made it for Gaza and the PA to come to negotiations.
As long as they believe that they can make Israel cede more land, or anything else, they will never sign a Peace treaty.
Arabs still suffer from Israel Derangement Syndrome (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News