Zone1 Lawlessness Is Not Compassionate

[rightwinger]

"Jesus was a migrant" is not an argument. Plus, it's in error.

It is true…

But also shows your disdain for the teachings of Jesus

 

[SweetSue92]

It is true…

But also shows your disdain for the teachings of Jesus

That's not true and your assertion is not an argument.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It's even more ignorant and disingenuous when you pretend that they're coming here to the empire due to some character deficiency or inherent, systemic problem that originates ONLY with them. Bigoted White Americans like to pretend that their beloved, GODLY, PERFECT, INNOCENT nation, had nothing to do with it, WHEN IT DOES.

The same flawed analysis is common among Europeans, who complain about all of those Muslims and Africans migrating to Europe. They hate the fact that their continent is being overrun by tens of millions of dark-skinned, alien...

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Arabs and Africans, but do they ever ask WHY? No, they just complain and pretend they're innocent little lambs, whose governments supposedly didn't do anything wrong recently against these "dark aliens" who are migrating to their beautiful, White, European countries.

Add several unnecessary wars to the above critique by the Italian Prime Minister. ​

We're not under the old covenant anymore, so Matthew is saying that the law is fulfilled and made complete in Jesus Christ. Yes, there is the law of Christ, and Christians should also follow the laws of the land in which they live, provided it doesn't violate God's law.



I agree with you, however, we need to also address the conditions that compel people to leave their home countries and come here. If we do that and help them improve their situation, they're much more likely to remain over there in their own countries and not come here.



There's no rational argument that justifies open borders and not enforcing our immigration laws. Notwithstanding, again, we also need to look at the source of the problem, and if we discover that we are part of that problem, we should change our foreign policy and stop contributing to those negative conditions, that cause people to come here illegally.

I'm not suggesting that the United States is COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE, for what is happening in many Latin American countries, because that would be an exaggeration and simply not true. But we do have, to a certain extent, a hand in what is happening in those "perpetually developing" third-world countries (not just in Latin America but in other continents as well).

Example.....Elon Musk:

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H-1B visa = Brain Drain. The American capitalist ruling elites, drain, and extract, the best minds, and talent from third-world countries, in order to save money on labor, because an American doing the same job, would get paid more, and would have worker rights, and expect more benefits (like healthcare, sick leave, yearly vacations), maybe even a labor union representing them.

So Elon and his ilk will bring in cheap, highly exploitable labor, consisting of the very best those poor countries have. The average Joe in those developing third-world countries, that doesn't come here on an H-1B visa, ends up living in a "perpetually developing"/impoverished nation that lacks experts, scientists, engineers..etc. The empire "drains" the brains of those countries. That's just one example of several reasons as to why the American capitalist ruling class and their corrupt cronies in our government, are partly responsible for all of this illegal immigration.

This is just one example, of several other factors that we (Americans), as well as Canadians, and Europeans, are contributing to all of the illegal immigration to Western "White Countries". We're not completely responsible, but at least partly.

"I'm not going back to Haiti!" (as you're going back to Haiti)

 

[JoeB131]

rightwinger is neither devil nor coward. Note he freely takes a swing at Republicans but gives a pass to illegal immigrants. Perhaps that is because he views Republicans as the 'haves' and illegal immigrants as the 'have nots'. He is not in the arena, but he sides with illegal immigrants over American citizens, perhaps believing most citizens fall into the 'have' category. It's neither devilish nor cowardly to have a generous heart. My perspective is that this is a situation that he doesn't fully understand all the ramifications. So, all he may be guilty of is naivete.

You see, here's the problem. You think that by being decent (one might even say, "Christian") to undocumented immigrants, we are taking something away from Americans. The idea that your job is really threatened by someone with no money, no connections, and a limited grasp on the English Language is kind of silly. I don't worry an illegal is going to be doing my moderately technical job.

I am worried that some genius might decide to outsource my job to a data center in a third-world country (which has happened twice now). I'm far more worried that a Republican is going to pooch the economy so badly that the company I work for has to slash dozens of jobs. (This has happened three times in my career.)

 

[JoeB131]

His parents fled WITHIN THE EMPIRE. Much as if one of your abortion seekers fled from Alabama to liberal California.
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But that's not true, either. It shows an ignorance of political realities at the time, and of bible scholarship..

If you accept Matthew's Account, Jesus was born in Judea during the reign of Herod the Great. Judea was NOT a part of the Roman Empire at that time, it was a client Kingdom. So, crossing from Judea to Egypt would have made Jesus a migrant. His parents were from Bethlehem originally, but fled to Egypt and then Galilee after Herod's death, which would absolutely make them migrants.

If you accept Luke's account, Jesus was born after the Roman Empire had annexed Judea, but his parents were from Galilee, which was still a client Kingdom under Herod Antipas. The reason why his parents were in Bethlehem was because Augustus ordered a census of the "whole world" and they had to travel from Galilee to Bethlehem to get counted.

A bunch of problems with this version. First, the Romans didn't conduct censuses this way. Second, they wouldn't have counted the population of Galilee at that point because it was an independent Kingdom. (Kind of. The Romans would eventually depose Herod Antipas and replace him with Herod Agrippa.)

But the biggest problem with these accounts is that they put the birth of Jesus about 10 years apart, minimum. Herod the Great died in 4 BCE.

The most plausible explanation was that both of these guys were cribbing off the Gospel of Mark, and both realized, "hey, we need to come up with a reason why Jesus of Nazareth was born in Bethlehem", because that was a criteria of being the Messiah. That and being descended from King David, so they came up with two separate genealogies, both through Joseph who wasn't the sperm donor.

 

[JoeB131]

That's not true and your assertion is not an argument.

See above.

regardless of which version you believe, Jesus was a migrant.

Matthew has him migrating from Judea to Egypt to Galilee.

Luke has him migrating from Galilee to Judea and back to Galilee. Actually, Luke has him as an "Anchor Baby".

 

[Carl in Michigan]

regardless of which version you believe, Jesus was a migrant

He was not in Egypt ILLEGALLY.

Why do the America haters insist on ignoring this crucial difference.

 

[JoeB131]

He was not in Egypt ILLEGALLY.

Why do the America haters insist on ignoring this crucial difference.

He crossed over from Judea to Egypt. I doubt he got the permission from the Roman Officials to do so.

It's just that people didn't care about migration back then.

They didn't care about migration from Latin America until the 1960's. Before that, there were no limitations on migration from those countries.

 

[rightwinger]

He was not in Egypt ILLEGALLY.

Why do the America haters insist on ignoring this crucial difference.

Jesus didn’t care about borders
He cared about easing human suffering

 

[sparky]

So Jesus was an anchor baby....? ~S~

 

[BreezeWood]

Defend the argument in the OP or crawl away in shame.

sour sue, all hail pinochet - in their defense to crucify the innocent ...

Following the coup, a military junta was established, and suspended all political activities in Chile and suppressed left-wing movements, such as the Communist Party of Chile and the Socialist Party of Chile, the Revolutionary Left Movement (MIR), and other communist and socialist parties.

their hatred of liberty for everyone but themself is their motivation disguised similarly by their christian bible to use jesus for their purpose and not the liberation theology they, jesus and the 1st century events gave their life for ...

the heartless truth christianity in south america has deliberately made crime a means for their atonement.

 

[Meriweather]

You see, here's the problem. You think that by being decent (one might even say, "Christian") to undocumented immigrants, we are taking something away from Americans.

No, I don't see it that way. My focus is on the underlying problem of immigration, specifically open borders. Open borders cause problems that theorists supporting open borders because it is "humanitarian" are clearly ignorant of, or dismiss as having to break a lot of eggs, but shouldn't "compassion" win the day? Complacent theorists (being above the trenches) haven't a clue of the burdensome realities and problems inherent in open borders.

Were open borders originally thought of as the solution to the problems you described in an earlier post? Are our immigration laws and procedures so onerous as to no longer being the welcome and ushering in of immigrants (legal)? Then, that is the problem that should be being addressed. Open borders isn't the solution as it causes many more problems, so what can make the legal immigration process run smoothly? You may have some ideas about that.

 

[Meriweather]

I doubt he got the permission from the Roman Officials to do so.

Why do you doubt this?

It's been decades since I did this study, but recall Joseph was a carpenter, which included stone masonry and simply hauling rocks. It wasn't always working with wood. Note at the time, a lot of renovation was still being done on Herod's Temple, although the main construction was complete. There was a community of Jews in Egypt who were also building a temple. Remember, the (real) Temple for Jews was meant to be in Jerusalem, but there was work being done (carpentry, masonry, hauling rocks) being done on in this building in Egypt.

Here's an idea: Being in reach of Herod was getting risky. Or, perhaps, not as many carpenters were needed as work now centered on the perimeters of the Temple. Carpentry workers were needed in that Jewish community in Egypt. Joseph needed work; the family would be safer out of Herod's reach. Why not move (or migrate) to the Jewish settlement in Egypt.

 

[BreezeWood]

Complacent theorists (being above the trenches) haven't a clue of the burdensome realities and problems inherent in open borders.

the solution has always been to imprison or fine those that hire them, wet backs - as is the solution at this time.

rather it is the evil within the christian community that would scapegoat the innocent to satisfy their madeup issue to gain control of the u s gov't to exert the same vile nature over the citizenry of this country they have perpetuated in south america.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Biden committed TREASON.

 

[HeyNorm]

Jesus didn’t care about borders
He cared about easing human suffering

Tell that to the woman burned alive in the subway by one of the very people you choose to defend.

As far as I’m concerned, you supplied the match.

 

[ding]

He cared about easing human suffering

Why do you say that?

 

[BreezeWood]

Tell that to the woman burned alive in the subway by one of the very people you choose to defend.

As far as I’m concerned, you supplied the match.

christianity is no stranger to burning people alive ...

there are mass graves throughout south america made by the brutal dictatorships instilled by u s american gov't and the military establishment, cia all in the name and blessings of christianity.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Why do you say that?

You haven't read your Bible?

 

[TruthNotBS]

christianity is no stranger to burning people alive ...

View attachment 1070882

there are mass graves throughout south america made by the brutal dictatorships instilled by u s american gov't and the military establishment, cia all in the name and blessings of christianity.

Nothing in the NT would ever justify Christians doing that, so if they did that, they were wrong and if they didn't repent they'll have to answer to Christ one day. That, however, doesn't imply that Christianity is false or not based on divine truth.