Law professor: Slippery slope to legal incest and polygamy

[kaz]

3) Individuals being married to no one

Nope, cant support that but that is likely because I have no idea what you are trying to state here
What the heck is a marriage to no one??? Last I checked, you cannot enter into a legal contract with yourself

Because marriage is not just a contract between two people. Which, BTW, I actually support, marriage being a contract between two people. Or three, or two people of the same sex. Once you get government out of it, you are free to make the contract you want with the participants you want and then it's nobody's business if you're two men or three or whatever.

However, marriage also comes with government perks. It is those perks I'm referring to. If you believe that gay marriage restriction violates equal protection, then denying the rights of marriage to individual citizens is even more so. Steve is married, Joe is not, they aren't equal under the law.

 

[DarkLion]

Yes, you are correct, most male scientists are attracted to women

They also agree that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Not that it should matter in a "free" society.

Not a choice? Really? Unless you have both male and female chromosomes, it is a choice.

You made yours, and thats just fine with me. But don't ask me to support any government mandate that forces me or anyone else to condone it.

See, thats the thing, you want the government to mandate how people think about gays---------that its just a normal alternative to normal sexual activity--------but its not and never will be.

Sexual orientation is not a choice.

 

[Gadawg73]

Choice means you have options of the many other types of sexual orientation.
Choice means one day you sat down and contemplated all of your options to choose from.
Choice is weighing each option and your experiences with all of those options before you make your choice.
Now I am sure maybe there are a few folks here that contemplated and experimented with the same sex as they had not made their choice then.
So those of you that are male that chose to be straight here after contemplating all your other choices tell us how long you thought about how good a penis might be before you made your choice to like vaginas.
It may have happened that way with some of you guys here that had to make a choice to decide what your sexual orientation is but not me guys.
I never had to make a choice, not in a million years but we believe you if that is how it happened with you.
But again, how long did you contemplate cock and what was the deciding factor that made you choose to be straight?

 

[The Rabbi]

Choice means you have options of the many other types of sexual orientation.
Choice means one day you sat down and contemplated all of your options to choose from.
Choice is weighing each option and your experiences with all of those options before you make your choice.
Now I am sure maybe there are a few folks here that contemplated and experimented with the same sex as they had not made their choice then.
So those of you that are male that chose to be straight here after contemplating all your other choices tell us how long you thought about how good a penis might be before you made your choice to like vaginas.
It may have happened that way with some of you guys here that had to make a choice to decide what your sexual orientation is but not me guys.
I never had to make a choice, not in a million years but we believe you if that is how it happened with you.
But again, how long did you contemplate cock and what was the deciding factor that made you choose to be straight?

Do you imagine that people don't experiment?

And I dont believe for a second you haven't had a dick between your lips.

 

[FA_Q2]

There is no link in that opinion peace that even begins to back up their position. Could that be because there is no scientific evidence, or a scientific consensus, that people are born gay? Would you like to admit I am right, or do you want to throw another opinion piece at me that doesn't prove me wrong?

First, scientific ‘consensus’ is meaningless and a bullshit term. By the very core of what science is and means; consensus is meaningless. If consensus meant anything, the earth would still be the center of the universe.

Second, I would really like to see this ‘proof’ that gay is a choice rather than something that we are. I think that you are blowing smoke because that is not true. Science is leaning in the other direction in that concept. Gay is not a choice. Here is a new theory that might just shed some light on the fact that there is no gay gene but that there is a relationship with genetics that causes homosexuality:

New Insight into the (Epi)Genetic Roots of Homosexuality | TIME.com

And time does some more articles that are interesting and cover such questions as why does the gay tendency in genes not die off:

Born Gay? - TIME

Interestingly, it shows that of you have gay relatives, you are far more prone to be gay. Again, this challenges the supposition that such things are choices.

Now, where are your scientific researchers that find gay is not due to conditions in genes and birth?

Last, the conditions that create gay people, whether a decision or born or environmental, are utterly meaningless in the legal debate. If you have a legal right to marry then that right extends universally and the state has no right to define what contract you can enter with another consenting adult. If you do not have that right then the state should not be involved. They really should not be involved anyway but that is another thread.

I never said that there is evidence that sexual preference is a choice, what I said is that there is proof that no one is born gay. There are quite a few twin studies out there that show that even self selecting monozygotic twins do not always end up with the same sexual preferences as adults. If even a study that deliberately set out to prove that people are born gay failed there is absolutely no need to argue about it, yet some people prefer to ignore the evidence and cling to their beliefs.

For the record, I believe that sexual preference, like religion, is a choice. The again, I believe in free will. I will admit that I can't prove my belief is correct, it is entirely possible we all get programmed at some point and that everything we do is a direct result of a user makes for us because we actually live in a matrix, but I want proof of that before I will stop believing in free will.

Feel free to post all the opinion pieces you want, there is no evidence that does not rely on an individual's belief that they were born that way. Until you come up with some type of scientific study that is the result of rigorous testing and has repeatable results you really do not have proof, all you have is the wild guesses of people with an agenda.

QW, that is not an opinion piece, it is an article on a research project that finds sexuality might very well be genetic, or more precisely the way that the genes are expressed. The fact that you are calling it an opinion piece tends to make me believe that you have not bothered to look into it or even read the article.

These are not opinions, they are actual research findings. I will agree that they are not totally conclusive – that might not be had for many years BUT they certainly do point to the idea that sexuality is NOT a choice. So far, the research shows that your ‘belief’ that it is a choice is incorrect.

So, no, I have more than ‘wild ass guesses from people with an agenda.’

There is no link in that opinion peace that even begins to back up their position. Could that be because there is no scientific evidence, or a scientific consensus, that people are born gay? Would you like to admit I am right, or do you want to throw another opinion piece at me that doesn't prove me wrong?

You stated your own opinion without providing a ******* thing to back up your claim. You're wrong and my personal opinion on it holds more water since I am gay and I'm telling you, from an eye witness standpoint, that I did not choose to be attracted to women. Scientists, by an overwhelming majority, agree with me.

That response would be more substantive if you and I hadn't already gone around on the issue before. Did you ever find anything to disprove the conclusion that is inevitable if you factor in the fact that twin studies have conclusively proven that monozygotic twins can have different sexual preferences?

In other words, the ball is in your court.

Read my cite. The reason that identical twins might not have the same sexuality is that it is not the genes themselves that are the deciders here but rather the expression of those genes. There is an entire field of genetics devoted to that concept. Identical genes are not actually identical.

 

[FA_Q2]

Nope, cant support that but that is likely because I have no idea what you are trying to state here
What the heck is a marriage to no one??? Last I checked, you cannot enter into a legal contract with yourself

Because marriage is not just a contract between two people. Which, BTW, I actually support, marriage being a contract between two people. Or three, or two people of the same sex. Once you get government out of it, you are free to make the contract you want with the participants you want and then it's nobody's business if you're two men or three or whatever.

However, marriage also comes with government perks. It is those perks I'm referring to. If you believe that gay marriage restriction violates equal protection, then denying the rights of marriage to individual citizens is even more so. Steve is married, Joe is not, they aren't equal under the law.

That really comes with the stance that marriage should not be a governmental concern in the first place and since I agree with that position, I would agree with that statement. That really is not marring no one though, that is getting uncle same out of that business.

Of course, I am against all tax breaks so that kind of goes with that as that is one of the largest benefits. There is little reason that others are paying for me to be married, the idea is silly.

Edit/Note: it is worth mentioning that under YOUR definition they ARE equal under the law but under mine they are not

 

[Redfish]

seawytch is out looking for batteries for her double ended dildo.

 

[Seawytch]

I did not gather that from your posts and as you state later that you would not even vote for it leads me to think that you are in general opposed to the idea.

I would also vote against heterosexual marriage, so what is the difference exactly?

Seawytch once asked me that if we already had gay marriage if I would vote against adding heterosexual marriage, I said in a heartbeat, yes, I would vote against it.

As I said, if you believe government should not be in the marriage business, it's illogical to support more people getting a government marriage.

And as to your points on gay marriage, assuming we have government marriage, if you support:

1) Polygamy

2) Multiple simultaneous 2 person marriages

3) Individuals being married to no one

Then I will at least concede intellectual integrity in your argument. If you don't, then on this one you're no more logical then the man/woman crowd, you just have a different standard.

You're confusing your lesbians. I never asked that question.

 

[Seawytch]

I never said that there is evidence that sexual preference is a choice, what I said is that there is proof that no one is born gay.

Your words:

"if I ignore the scientific evidence that people are not born gay"

Provide your evidence.

 

[Seawytch]

Not a choice? Really? Unless you have both male and female chromosomes, it is a choice.

You made yours, and thats just fine with me. But don't ask me to support any government mandate that forces me or anyone else to condone it.

See, thats the thing, you want the government to mandate how people think about gays---------that its just a normal alternative to normal sexual activity--------but its not and never will be.

Really, not a choice? If you believe that it is, you must believe that you yourself could make that choice. Is that what you're saying? You could choose to, not just have sex with someone of the same sex, but to want to spend your life with them, loving honoring and cherishing them? Is that what you're saying?

I did make that choice, so did you. You also chose to be a Democrat, even if you can't tell me when you made that choice. The mere fact that you don't remember your choices does not prove you didn't make them.

You do not make a choice who you are attracted to.

 

[Seawytch]

Yes, you are correct, most male scientists are attracted to women

They also agree that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Not that it should matter in a "free" society.

You are half right, it doesn't matter if sexual preference is a choice or not.

Funny how you cannot even produce a survey to back up your claim that most scientist believe something that is patently false.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-12/being-born-gay-isnt-your-genes-its-them

Ever major medical and psychological organization states gay is not a choice. They haven't found definitively where it comes from, but you don't choose who you are attracted to, just if you act on those attractions.

 

[Seawytch]

seawytch is out looking for batteries for her double ended dildo.

Seriously Fishy, get some ******* porn and stop fantasizing about me.

 

[DarkLion]

You do not make a choice who you are attracted to.

Or what

 

[NYcarbineer]

seawytch is out looking for batteries for her double ended dildo.

How many batteries do you take?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If racisim is a choice, then homophobia is a choice.

Racism may be instinctive, or very close to it. They've done experiments with very young babies where they've shown the babies pictures of people who were similar looking to their parents,

and the babies reacted positively. When they showed them pictures of people who looked very different, the babies often cried or reacted negatively.

Bullshit.

Take it up with the researchers.

 

[The Rabbi]

seawytch is out looking for batteries for her double ended dildo.

Seriously Fishy, get some ******* porn and stop fantasizing about me.

If you posted a pic that would probably cure him. Of course that might be considered a weapon of mass destruction.

 

[The Rabbi]

They also agree that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Not that it should matter in a "free" society.

You are half right, it doesn't matter if sexual preference is a choice or not.

Funny how you cannot even produce a survey to back up your claim that most scientist believe something that is patently false.

The Real Story on Gay Genes | DiscoverMagazine.com

Could Scientists Have Found A Gay Switch? | Popular Science

Ever major medical and psychological organization states gay is not a choice. They haven't found definitively where it comes from, but you don't choose who you are attracted to, just if you act on those attractions.

The first article pretty much says the opposite of what you state. I didnt bother with the second.

 

[Gadawg73]

Choice means you have options of the many other types of sexual orientation.
Choice means one day you sat down and contemplated all of your options to choose from.
Choice is weighing each option and your experiences with all of those options before you make your choice.
Now I am sure maybe there are a few folks here that contemplated and experimented with the same sex as they had not made their choice then.
So those of you that are male that chose to be straight here after contemplating all your other choices tell us how long you thought about how good a penis might be before you made your choice to like vaginas.
It may have happened that way with some of you guys here that had to make a choice to decide what your sexual orientation is but not me guys.
I never had to make a choice, not in a million years but we believe you if that is how it happened with you.
But again, how long did you contemplate cock and what was the deciding factor that made you choose to be straight?

Do you imagine that people don't experiment?

And I dont believe for a second you haven't had a dick between your lips.

Not me man, always straight and never experimented.
No one I know states they chose to be straight.
But if it makes you get your rocks off playing your fantasy game of choice go for it.
You are the one claiming it was your choice, not me.
I can tell you are getting a little testy there, huh?
How come you got so nervous over my last post?

 

[Gadawg73]

Even Southern Baptists now admit it is not a choice, that it is same sex attraction.
They still state it is a sin to engage in homosexual sex and they can believe what they want to on that but they fully acknowledge it is not a choice.
Such a lame claim. Someone chooses their sexual orientation.
Only a dumbass claims that folks choose to be persecuted.
No shortage of them here.

 

[FA_Q2]

seawytch is out looking for batteries for her double ended dildo.

Seriously Fishy, get some ******* porn and stop fantasizing about me.

But you’re a self-proclaimed lesbian…

Not an easy task for us men not to drool a little