Last Sunday there were 44 gun related deaths in the US

[Skull Pilot]

Do you think this Sunday will see less or more deaths ?

Apparently there have been around 4000 gun deaths in the US this year.

Why is it acceptable ?

The NRA and all the hillbillies say so.

No...the NRA actually supports the concept of locking up gun criminals...and helped push Project Exile...which gave long prison sentences to gun criminals...and moved gun criminals into the federal prison system..sending them out of state rather than to in state prisons......

But please...keep talking out of your ass...

So the NRA wants people locked up after the fact, but doesn't want to do anything to stop the deaths. Got it.

you can't stop people from killing each other

 

[Mudda]

The NRA and all the hillbillies say so.

Most of those deaths weren't caused by NRA members or hillbillies. Most likely none of them. Most likeley they were commited by Hillary voters in cities like Chicago. The deeper issues are not about guns, its about violence

It's about why all these deaths are acceptable. I said the hillbillies and the NRA are standing in the way of meaningful gun reform. Meaning that to them, that amount of deaths in one day is acceptable to them.

Hey genius......name some "meaningful gun reform" and explain to us how it works to stop criminals...we need a good laugh today....

Ban bullets, there's no constitutional protection for bullets, just arms. Now go suck on a couple of musket balls.

Actually there is that protection. That's what 'well regulated' means.

Geez the ignorance around here is overwhelming.

Like you hillbillies form a militia.

 

[Mudda]

Do you think this Sunday will see less or more deaths ?

Apparently there have been around 4000 gun deaths in the US this year.

Why is it acceptable ?

The NRA and all the hillbillies say so.

No...the NRA actually supports the concept of locking up gun criminals...and helped push Project Exile...which gave long prison sentences to gun criminals...and moved gun criminals into the federal prison system..sending them out of state rather than to in state prisons......

But please...keep talking out of your ass...

So the NRA wants people locked up after the fact, but doesn't want to do anything to stop the deaths. Got it.

you can't stop people from killing each other

But it makes it a lot harder if not impossible to do a Sandy Hook without guns.

 

[2aguy]

Most of those deaths weren't caused by NRA members or hillbillies. Most likely none of them. Most likeley they were commited by Hillary voters in cities like Chicago. The deeper issues are not about guns, its about violence

It's about why all these deaths are acceptable. I said the hillbillies and the NRA are standing in the way of meaningful gun reform. Meaning that to them, that amount of deaths in one day is acceptable to them.

No....democrats are standing in the way of actual criminal reform...they refuse to increase the sentences for repeat gun offenders and for criminals who use guns to commit rape, robbery and murder...it is democrats stopping that, not law abiding gun owners and NRA members...the NRA helped support Project Exile to try to contain the criminals...you assholes fought that...

You want only penalties after the crime, not actual crime prevention. Big difference. Especially for victims. But they don't matter to you. Good Grief.

No.....most criminals who commit murder with guns are caught several times with guns before they commit the murder.....if a felon is caught with an illegal gun, they should go to prison for 30 years...

If someone is caught committing rape, armed robbery with a gun...but hasn't killed anyone..yet...they should get 30 years for using the gun in the crime...

That is how you reduce gun crime........that is how the Japanese have done it...

Here's how Japan did it:

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths
In part by forbidding almost all forms of firearm ownership, the country has as few as two gun-related homicides a year.
How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

See........now you can see how an anti-gun journalist lies to you about gun control....

That Atlanntic Aritcle uses David Kopel to reach it's conclusion...except David Kopel doesn't say what the Atlantic Article says he said...

How do I know...I have the original work by Kopel....and here I will allow you to see what the Atlantic Used...and what Kopel actually said reduced gun crime in Japan....it wasnt' their laws...it was their culture.....


Notice how they applaud David Kopel.....then lie about what he said....in the very piece they quote....
Japan: Gun Control and People Control

And they lie about it...he does not say what the Atlantic article suggests he says.....watch this...

Quoted from your link to the Atlantic article..

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it’s not easy to do. The process is detailed in David Kopel’s landmark study on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member of the National Rifle Association and once wrote in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

My link is his actual work...

What does he actually say about Japan's gun control laws...keeping in mind they use his work to say it is Japanese gun control that keeps gun crime low....from my link....

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.

Notice how they didn't cite him using that quote?

This is the part of his piece they don't qoute...how the Japanese actually keep all crime, not just gun crime low...

Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.

Do you notice the bias in the article in how they quote the expert they quote...how his work completely contradicts their point about gun control...?

 

[2aguy]

It's about why all these deaths are acceptable. I said the hillbillies and the NRA are standing in the way of meaningful gun reform. Meaning that to them, that amount of deaths in one day is acceptable to them.

No....democrats are standing in the way of actual criminal reform...they refuse to increase the sentences for repeat gun offenders and for criminals who use guns to commit rape, robbery and murder...it is democrats stopping that, not law abiding gun owners and NRA members...the NRA helped support Project Exile to try to contain the criminals...you assholes fought that...

You want only penalties after the crime, not actual crime prevention. Big difference. Especially for victims. But they don't matter to you. Good Grief.

No.....most criminals who commit murder with guns are caught several times with guns before they commit the murder.....if a felon is caught with an illegal gun, they should go to prison for 30 years...

If someone is caught committing rape, armed robbery with a gun...but hasn't killed anyone..yet...they should get 30 years for using the gun in the crime...

That is how you reduce gun crime........that is how the Japanese have done it...

Here's how Japan did it:

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths
In part by forbidding almost all forms of firearm ownership, the country has as few as two gun-related homicides a year.
How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

Though it's worth considering another police state here: Tunisia, which had the lowest firearm-ownership rate in the world (one gun per thousand citizens, compared to America’s 890) when its people toppled a brutal, 24-year dictatorship and sparked the Arab Spring.

But how do you manage to do that when you dont own guns ?

Illegal guns, moron...they smuggeled them in.....or got them from defecting military units.......so even there, their gun laws didn't work.....

 

[2aguy]

Most of those deaths weren't caused by NRA members or hillbillies. Most likely none of them. Most likeley they were commited by Hillary voters in cities like Chicago. The deeper issues are not about guns, its about violence

It's about why all these deaths are acceptable. I said the hillbillies and the NRA are standing in the way of meaningful gun reform. Meaning that to them, that amount of deaths in one day is acceptable to them.

No....democrats are standing in the way of actual criminal reform...they refuse to increase the sentences for repeat gun offenders and for criminals who use guns to commit rape, robbery and murder...it is democrats stopping that, not law abiding gun owners and NRA members...the NRA helped support Project Exile to try to contain the criminals...you assholes fought that...

You want only penalties after the crime, not actual crime prevention. Big difference. Especially for victims. But they don't matter to you. Good Grief.

No.....most criminals who commit murder with guns are caught several times with guns before they commit the murder.....if a felon is caught with an illegal gun, they should go to prison for 30 years...

If someone is caught committing rape, armed robbery with a gun...but hasn't killed anyone..yet...they should get 30 years for using the gun in the crime...

That is how you reduce gun crime........that is how the Japanese have done it...

Here's how Japan did it:

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths
In part by forbidding almost all forms of firearm ownership, the country has as few as two gun-related homicides a year.
How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

And to further disprove your point...the Small Arms Survey.....about Japan...

The reason they don't have more shootings...Japanese criminal culture...

Another reason...they passed laws that put 30 year sentences on gun crime...so now even the Yakuza don't want to shoot each other or throw grenades at each other.....

That is how it is done...but we have democrats who won't support long jail sentences even for criminals who use guns for actual crimes.....

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...0/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2010-Chapter-04-EN.pdf





The latter is hardly exceptional internationally, but it means the Yakuza control a remarkable proportion of all civilian firearms in Japan, between 7 and 14 per cent. The Yakuza, in other words, are armed about 200 times more heavily than Japanese society generally. Among the examples explored here, Japan has the highest concentration of firearms among its gangsters. Japanese gangs are heavily armed by any standard, but, in comparison with the rest of Japanese society, they are extraordinary.

And it also supports the point I keep making......gang culture determines the murder rate...since they all have access to guns....it is just that some criminal cultures do not resort to violence as quickly as other criminal cultures in other countries......

Armed gang members appear to be most common in societies afflicted by both high membership and gun ownership. South Africa’s Western Cape province probably has the most serious gang guns problem anywhere, ranking at the top of both scales. In Western Cape, gangs appear to have roughly 51,000 out of the suspected total of 570,000 firearms in civilian hands in the region, or close to 10 per cent. These figures are similar to levels of gang gun ownership in Japan, but South African gangs are much more violent (GANG VIOLENCE)

 

[2aguy]

Do you think this Sunday will see less or more deaths ?

Apparently there have been around 4000 gun deaths in the US this year.

Why is it acceptable ?

The NRA and all the hillbillies say so.

No...the NRA actually supports the concept of locking up gun criminals...and helped push Project Exile...which gave long prison sentences to gun criminals...and moved gun criminals into the federal prison system..sending them out of state rather than to in state prisons......

But please...keep talking out of your ass...

So the NRA wants people locked up after the fact, but doesn't want to do anything to stop the deaths. Got it.

you can't stop people from killing each other

But it makes it a lot harder if not impossible to do a Sandy Hook without guns.

Not really......the truck in Nice, France....89 dead, over 400 injured...

Sandy Hook...26 dead....

And Sandy Hook was a gun free zone, which left them all vulnerable to the killer.......

 

[Mudda]

The NRA and all the hillbillies say so.

No...the NRA actually supports the concept of locking up gun criminals...and helped push Project Exile...which gave long prison sentences to gun criminals...and moved gun criminals into the federal prison system..sending them out of state rather than to in state prisons......

But please...keep talking out of your ass...

So the NRA wants people locked up after the fact, but doesn't want to do anything to stop the deaths. Got it.

you can't stop people from killing each other

But it makes it a lot harder if not impossible to do a Sandy Hook without guns.

Not really......the truck in Nice, France....89 dead, over 400 injured...

Sandy Hook...26 dead....

And Sandy Hook was a gun free zone, which left them all vulnerable to the killer.......

So your argument is, let's allow 300 million+ guns in our country with pretty near zero restrictions to anyone, including psychiatric patients, because people got run over with a truck in France. Sorry, but that's pretty lame, brah.

 

[2aguy]

No...the NRA actually supports the concept of locking up gun criminals...and helped push Project Exile...which gave long prison sentences to gun criminals...and moved gun criminals into the federal prison system..sending them out of state rather than to in state prisons......

But please...keep talking out of your ass...

So the NRA wants people locked up after the fact, but doesn't want to do anything to stop the deaths. Got it.

you can't stop people from killing each other

But it makes it a lot harder if not impossible to do a Sandy Hook without guns.

Not really......the truck in Nice, France....89 dead, over 400 injured...

Sandy Hook...26 dead....

And Sandy Hook was a gun free zone, which left them all vulnerable to the killer.......

So your argument is, let's allow 300 million+ guns in our country with pretty near zero restrictions to anyone, including psychiatric patients, because people got run over with a truck in France. Sorry, but that's pretty lame, brah.

No...that is not my argument...

My argument is this....

Law abiding citizens have a right to own and carry guns for self defense purposes.

Felons...that is convicted criminals, and those adjudicated to being dangeously mentally ill, should be barred from buying, owning or carrying guns.

Law abiding citizens do not increase the gun crime rate...as I have shown over and over with the stats I have shown......

If you want to reduce gun crime....you need to arrest and lock up criminals who use guns for a long time....a criminal using a gun for a rape, robbery or murder....30 years.

If a felon is caught with an illegal gun...30 years.

That is how you lower the gun crime rate in this country even more.....

Can you explain how it is that we went from 200 million guns and 4.7 million people carrying them legally, to 357-400 million guns with 15 million people carrying them legally....

And the gun murder rate went down 49%?

The gun crime rate went down 75%?

The violent crime rate went down 72%?

And each year Americans use those guns to stop violent criminal attack 1,500,000 times a year....

Since normal people are not using their guns for murder or a crime...why do you have a problem with law abiding people owning guns....?

 

[2aguy]

Here we go.....the actual crime stats for guns in the U.K. before and after the ban....and it shows that the ban did not lower their firearm crime rates.....

Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans - Crime Prevention Research Center

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population,” UPDATED numbers available here). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates. Firearm homicide rate had almost doubled between 1996 and 2002 (see here p. 11). The homicide and firearm homicide rates only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. Despite the huge increase in the number of police, the murder rate still remained slightly higher than the immediate pre-ban rate.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So yesterday was a really good day. Only 25 gun fatalities across the whole of America.

More than acceptable.

 

[2aguy]

So yesterday was a really good day. Only 25 gun fatalities across the whole of America.

More than acceptable.

70-80% of those victims were criminals...........and how many of the rest were suicides.......

And according to bill Clinton and barak Obama, Americans used guns 4,109 times to stop violent criminals.....how many of those were lives saved?

 

[Cellblock2429]

No...the NRA actually supports the concept of locking up gun criminals...and helped push Project Exile...which gave long prison sentences to gun criminals...and moved gun criminals into the federal prison system..sending them out of state rather than to in state prisons......

But please...keep talking out of your ass...

So the NRA wants people locked up after the fact, but doesn't want to do anything to stop the deaths. Got it.

you can't stop people from killing each other

But it makes it a lot harder if not impossible to do a Sandy Hook without guns.

Not really......the truck in Nice, France....89 dead, over 400 injured...

Sandy Hook...26 dead....

And Sandy Hook was a gun free zone, which left them all vulnerable to the killer.......

So your argument is, let's allow 300 million+ guns in our country with pretty near zero restrictions to anyone, including psychiatric patients, because people got run over with a truck in France. Sorry, but that's pretty lame, brah.

/---- yours is voted the straw man argument of the day. Congratulations