Kudos To Utah

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
Way interesting! :clap2: :clap2:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5144343

School voucher bill passes House by a single vote
By Nicole Stricker
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 02/02/2007 01:17:58 PM MST

Posted: 12:48 PM- A school voucher bill passed the Utah House by a single vote today. It is now expected to sail through the Senate and win the governor's signature.

After weeks of back-room arm-twisting and spirited lobbying on both sides of the issues, supporters managed 38 yes votes to the 37 opposed -- there were no representatives absent. Surprise supporters included Rep. Brad Last, R-St. George, and Rep. Keith Grover, R-Orem - two former public school officials. Both said they had wrestled with a decision.

The pro-voucher Parents for Choice in Education called the vote a victory for Utah children.

"We're thrilled," said Elisa Peterson, executive director of PCE.

Opponents from the state's largest teachers' union said out-of- state money and politics drove the decision more than children's best interests.

"This isn't the way I teach my fifth-graders the system works," said Kim Campbell, president of the Utah Education Association.

HB148 will let parents spend public money on private school tuition. Every Utah family, with the exception of current private school students, would be eligible for a voucher ranging from $500 to $3,000 depending on family income.
 
OP
Annie

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
getting noticed:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110009624

Somewhere, Milton Is Smiling
Utahns win a hard-fought victory for school choice.

Monday, February 5, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

The late Milton Friedman, who was the nation's foremost advocate for school choice, would be more than pleased with the news coming out of Utah. By a vote of 38-37, the Utah House last Thursday approved the first-ever statewide universal school choice plan.

Despite the close vote, the program now faces relatively smooth sailing. The bill now goes to the state Senate, which twice before has voted for a similar program. Gov. Jon Huntsman, a Republican, won election in 2004 in part by campaigning for school choice, and he has said he will likely sign the final bill.

Until now, school choice has been an idea that works but has only been spottily implemented, in part due to the fierce opposition of teacher unions and the rest of the educational-industrial complex. Maine and Vermont have allowed students in rural districts without their own high school to attend private schools for over a century. Struggling inner-city school districts in Milwaukee, Cleveland and Washington allow low-income parents to obtain vouchers. My colleague Jason Riley has noted the extensive academic research finding that where choice is allowed, parents are much more satisfied with their children's education, and local public schools have improved their performance.

Utah's plan is modest, and at the same time revolutionary. It would reimburse parents sending their children to private schools between $500 and $3,000 a year based on their family income. Parents whose kids currently attend private school would not be eligible unless their income was low enough. But all new kindergartners would qualify, so that by 2020 all private school students would be eligible for vouchers...
 

denverdoc

Rookie
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Not certain I agree with the sentiment of kudos. The educational system in Utah is already shaped to a greater extent by local religion and culture than perhaps anywhere else in the country. There will be within 10 years LDS schools on every block, in part subsidized by taxpayers of every faith (and those miscreants with no faith). That seems perilously close to complete erosion of the divide between state and religion our founding fathers saw fit to provide. As it stands now, Utah is a virtual theocracy, and outside Salt Lake City, and a few other pockets, a sometimes inhospitable place to live if one is not of the predominant faith. This will only lead to Utah being more outlandish.
 
OP
Annie

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
Not certain I agree with the sentiment of kudos. The educational system in Utah is already shaped to a greater extent by local religion and culture than perhaps anywhere else in the country. There will be within 10 years LDS schools on every block, in part subsidized by taxpayers of every faith (and those miscreants with no faith). That seems perilously close to complete erosion of the divide between state and religion our founding fathers saw fit to provide. As it stands now, Utah is a virtual theocracy, and outside Salt Lake City, and a few other pockets, a sometimes inhospitable place to live if one is not of the predominant faith. This will only lead to Utah being more outlandish.
Welcome Denverdoc! I'm for any program wihic will help provide alternatives for those that cannot get out of poor public schools, due to costs. I understand about SLC in particular, but that doesn't negate the possibilities for others.
 

denverdoc

Rookie
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Thanks for the welcome. If competition directly led to improvement of the public schools, then I would agree. The schools are a mess. This just seems like a dangerous place to try such an experiment as the teachers unions may well be right re their doom and gloom predictions--i.e it might indeed suck the lifeblood out of a system that is already strapped with the largest average class sizes in the country, etc. Its not about improving the schools so much as replacing them with ones more in alignment with the views of the LDS church.

Issue here is the sexism--I know my own daughters education in the SLC school system probably was not what it should have been with re to math and science--why bother your pretty little head over these matters, when making babies and home economics is what you really need, dear, that and a husband?

That's caricature but not a complete distortion. Now we have a prescription for sexism.
 

nukeman

Active Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
313
Reaction score
56
Points
28
Not certain I agree with the sentiment of kudos. The educational system in Utah is already shaped to a greater extent by local religion and culture than perhaps anywhere else in the country. There will be within 10 years LDS schools on every block, in part subsidized by taxpayers of every faith (and those miscreants with no faith). That seems perilously close to complete erosion of the divide between state and religion our founding fathers saw fit to provide. As it stands now, Utah is a virtual theocracy, and outside Salt Lake City, and a few other pockets, a sometimes inhospitable place to live if one is not of the predominant faith. This will only lead to Utah being more outlandish.
Heres the another view on this the people now have a "CHOICE" as to where they will send thier chlidren. If it happens to be in line with the LDS's or some other groupe it is their choice. I for one am a little sick of the public school system telling me as a parent they want my involvement with my children only when there is a problem but if I have a concern about their curriculum than I am just being pushy and a trouble maker. this is what a lot of parents are sick and tired of putting up with.

The public school system better start listening to the public that they teach before they find themselves working in private schools having to pay for their own retirement and not be guarenteed a job even when your a lousy teacher just because you have tenure....
 
OP
Annie

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
Heres the another view on this the people now have a "CHOICE" as to where they will send thier chlidren. If it happens to be in line with the LDS's or some other groupe it is their choice. I for one am a little sick of the public school system telling me as a parent they want my involvement with my children only when there is a problem but if I have a concern about their curriculum than I am just being pushy and a trouble maker. this is what a lot of parents are sick and tired of putting up with.

The public school system better start listening to the public that they teach before they find themselves working in private schools having to pay for their own retirement and not be guarenteed a job even when your a lousy teacher just because you have tenure....
I'm very fortunate, I live in an area with excellent private and public schools. I think the real concern however, is in areas where the schools are not performing at even a basic instructional level. In most cases, this is a function of property taxes.

Those schools that do accomplish high performance are usually the most responsive to parents, because the parents KNOW how much they are paying. Now that doesn't mean that each set of parents will be thrilled with a particular school district, no matter the scores. They may be very conservative and living in a very liberal area, where the school reflects the norm. Or vice versa, liberal parents in a very conservative area. Oftentimes, in this type of district, the teachers may feel there is no one to hear their side. The 'customer' is always right, no matter how problematic the child may be.

Which is another problem schools of all types run into problems with. Parents whose kids are angels, just ask them. Funny thing, some of the most 'angelic' according to their parents are on the road to becoming true hellions! :rolleyes: Often times teachers are glad when they find the angels had a run in with Mr. Policeman, it tends to make the parents take a second look, before it's too late.

Back to the money issue. In our public grammar schools, the avg. cost per pupil is just above 10k. In the high schools, just above 13.5k. They reconfigured those this year, with a bit more going to the grammar schools. Needless to say, our taxes are high.

Now my last child graduated hs 3 years ago. That year I spent over $500 in books and fees. Another $300 for sports related costs to the school. Oh yea, another $75 on gifts for coaches. Then there was the 'friends of _________', where we ponied up another $75 for school wish lists stuff. Any 'boosters' for sports was I think $25. Oh, but admission to events needed season pass, another $50.

I guess that's the sort of stuff that accounts in large measure for the differences between wealthy districts and non-wealthy. At the same time, we do live in an area where people value highly education-which is why they live in the district. Before any games, parents would host a team dinner, again no problem serving/catering for 25 teen boys. LOL! Parents got hotel rooms when the kids went to state, I don't think that's too likely for more indigent parents.

I know this is rambling, but bottom line is that there are alot of factors that go into measuring good and bad schools. Parental involvement tends to be high in successful ones, so what would the scores be like if the school had less $$? My guess, not much.
 

Avatar4321

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
82,283
Reaction score
10,122
Points
2,070
Location
Minnesota
Not certain I agree with the sentiment of kudos. The educational system in Utah is already shaped to a greater extent by local religion and culture than perhaps anywhere else in the country. There will be within 10 years LDS schools on every block, in part subsidized by taxpayers of every faith (and those miscreants with no faith). That seems perilously close to complete erosion of the divide between state and religion our founding fathers saw fit to provide. As it stands now, Utah is a virtual theocracy, and outside Salt Lake City, and a few other pockets, a sometimes inhospitable place to live if one is not of the predominant faith. This will only lead to Utah being more outlandish.
Utah a theocracy? you obviously havent lived there.

Besides, the Church wont open schools when alternatives exist already.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top