Kristallnacht or Pogrom Night - which term do you use?

[Zebra]

I find Kristallnacht a very discriptive term and it is used and understood internationally.
But in Germany politically correct people tell us not to use it, as it was too harmless.
we should use Pogromnacht.

I disagree.

 

[Zebra]

Kristallnacht translates as Night of Broken Glas

 

[mikegriffith1]

We have one forum member who may well argue that Kristallnacht was the result of the "valid grievances" that he says the Nazis had against the Jews. He has explained that "Hitler wasn't the problem." No, the problem, according to this forum member, was that the Jews had wrecked Germany and that therefore the Jews provoked the Nazis and other Germans into hating them. I'm referring, of course, to JoeB131.

 

[Zebra]

I think that the term Kristallnacht shows the horrors of that night better than the scientific word Pogrom.

what do you think?

 

[Lisa558]

We have one forum member who may well argue that Kristallnacht was the result of the "valid grievances" that he says the Nazis had against the Jews. He has explained that "Hitler wasn't the problem." No, the problem, according to this forum member, was that the Jews had wrecked Germany and that therefore the Jews provoked the Nazis and other Germans into hating them. I'm referring, of course, to JoeB131.

I knew to whom you referred. He also said he “guesses” the Holocaust was bad.

He’s disgusting.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Kristallnacht translates as Night of Broken Glas

You probably should link to what the event was. Thats not exactly a thing here.

 

[Lisa558]

You probably should link to what the event was. Thats not exactly a thing here.

It’s not a thing to the younger generation here. Americans in my generation learned about in high school history.

 

[Zebra]

You probably should link to what the event was. Thats not exactly a thing here.

my primitive tablet does not do links well.

I speak of November 9 in 1938 in Germany.

I tested Google ... it has lots of entries for Kristallnacht.

 

[Zincwarrior]

my primitive tablet does not do links well.

I speak of November 9 in 1938 in Germany.

I tested Google ... it has lots of entries for Kristallnacht.

Wiki for everyone.

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lisa558]

I think that the term Kristallnacht shows the horrors of that night better than the scientific word Pogrom.

what do you think?

I voted for Kristallnacht because it refers to that ONE specific and horrific anti-Jew event. “Pogram Night” could refer to any number of events, as pograms were commonplace elsewhere - such as in Russia in the 19th century.

 

[Zebra]

It’s not a thing to the younger generation here. Americans in my generation learned about in high school history.

Here in Germany that horror is not forgotten.

and have you heard of the so called stumbling stones that are now put in the pavement in front of houses where Jews lived who were murdered by the Nazis .... as a menory.

 

[Zebra]

I voted for Kristallnacht because it refers to that ONE specific and horrific anti-Jew event. “Pogram Night” could refer to any number of events, as pograms were commonplace elsewhere - such as in Russia in the 19th century.

yes, and it shows the horrors better than the learned term Novemberpogrome.

 

[Lisa558]

Here in Germany that horror is not forgotten.

and have heard of the so called stumbling stones that are now put in the pavement in front of houses where Jews lived who were murdered by the Nazis .... as a menory.

I didn’t know that about the stumbling stones. Thank you.

 

[Zebra]

October 7 in 2023 reminded here of November 9 in 1938

 

[Lisa558]

October 7 in 2023 reminded here of November 9 in 1938

What the Islamic terrorists did on October 7 was more than 10x worse than what the Nazi thugs did that night in 1938.

 

[BothWings]

It’s not a thing to the younger generation here. Americans in my generation learned about in high school history.

Absolutely! I was born less than 27 years after that war ended. That's like from Y2K to the present. Not really long at all.

I have a VERY German last name that few Americans pronounce right the first time. Other kids used to jokingly call me "the Nazi" in elementary school because of it. Not "the German", "the NAZI". Many of our grandparents were only in their 50's or 60's back in the 70's, and many had served in the military during that time.They told us all about it. My maternal grandfather knew a few German songs from the war and he used to sing them in the car. They also had German POW's at the base where he worked in Ohio, so he actually met Nazis face to face in conversation.

I didnt grow up with der Dritter Reich and the Holocaust as some distant legend which was only hinted at in movies. I even took a Holocaust elective course in high school. It was still fresh in a lot of minds when I was young.

 

[GLASNOST]

I find Kristallnacht a very discriptive term and it is used and understood internationally.
But in Germany politically correct people tell us not to use it, as it was too harmless.
we should use Pogromnacht.

I disagree.

Kristallnacht denotes a single incident in Germany. Pogroms span over decades or more and includes more than one nation..

 

[Lisa558]

Absolutely! I was born less than 27 years after that war ended. That's like from Y2K to the present. Not really long at all.

I have a VERY German last name that few Americans pronounce right the first time. Other kids used to jokingly call me "the Nazi" in elementary school because of it. Not "the German", "the NAZI". Many of our grandparents were only in their 50's or 60's back in the 70's, and many had served in the military during that time.They told us all about it. My maternal grandfather knew a few German songs from the war and he used to sing them in the car. They also had German POW's at the base where he worked in Ohio, so he actually met Nazis face to face in conversation.

I didnt grow up with der Dritter Reich and the Holocaust as some distant legend which was only hinted at in movies. I even took a Holocaust elective course in high school. It was still fresh in a lot of minds when I was young.

And I’m even older than you. My father lost his grandmother, aunt, uncle, and four cousins to the Nazis, and my grandmother lost her own mother. My (step) grandfather, who lived until I was about 22, survived by fighting with the partisans, although he was physically handicapped the rest of his life.

So I was really only one generation removed from the horror, and many of us knew first-hand of survivors.

Now, today’s teens are four generations removed, and the focus on education is on leftist ideology anyway, so not much is taught. That is what makes what is happening with antisemitism both scary - and possible: those perpetuating the hate with calls of “Death to Jews!” or mayoral candidates who refuse to condemn calls for violence against Jews, are too young to know better.

 

[GLASNOST]

And I’m even older than you. My father lost his grandmother, aunt, uncle, and four cousins to the Nazis, and my grandmother lost her own mother. My (step) grandfather, who lived until I was about 22, survived by fighting with the partisans, although he was physically handicapped the rest of his life.

So I was really only one generation removed from the horror, and many of us knew first-hand of survivors.

Now, today’s teens are four generations removed, and the focus on education is on leftist ideology anyway, so not much is taught. That is what makes what is happening with antisemitism both scary - and possible: those perpetuating the hate with calls of “Death to Jews!” or mayoral candidates who refuse to condemn calls for violence against Jews, are too young to know better.

I was born in 1947 so I missed that war. I was too young for the one in 1950 but they shipped me over for the one after that in 1966. You cannot escape.

 

[Zebra]

Kristallnacht denotes a single incident in Germany. Pogroms span over decades or more and includes more than one nation..

all the more reasons to speak of Kristallnacht.