Zone1 Khazarians vs. Children of Abraham

[DudleySmith]

xts. Jews have been denigrating Jesus for centuries, from the very beginning.

And many many more became followers, which accounts for the decline in numbers of ' real Jews' over time, at least according to the cults that came after the Babylonian Temple scam was shut down. Da Evul Xian Jews stopped lining the pockets of Pharisees and Sadducees and their 'racial purity police'. Christianity is just another Jewish reform sect, and a much more successful one.

 

[irosie91]

That's a new interpretation. As he said, a "damage control" - BS Hasbara interpretation of ancient texts. Jews have been denigrating Jesus for centuries, from the very beginning.

can you provide an example of "Jews denigrating Jesus". I can provide
examples of muslims denigrating christians and the book "the New Testament" ----many examples including that which I heard in a mosque. Jews were writing lots during the era in which Jesus lived and thereafter. Feel free to quote

 

[TruthNotBS]

Ah, touched a nerve with an historical fact again. lol it's easy with you feral pagans.

He's right, you're just resorting to cheap insults and polemics. You essentially said nothing.

 

[TruthNotBS]

can you provide an example of "Jews denigrating Jesus". I can provide
examples of muslims denigrating christians and the book "the New Testament" ----many examples including that which I heard in a mosque. Jews were writing lots during the era in which Jesus lived and thereafter. Feel free to quote

Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rosends]

Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

it's like you didn't even read the wiki piece you referenced.

Jesus In The Talmud

Jesus in the Talmud.

www.angelfire.com

 

[TruthNotBS]

it's like you didn't even read the wiki piece you referenced.

Jesus In The Talmud

Jesus in the Talmud.

www.angelfire.com

It's like you didn't think before you posted. It admits of course, that there are Jews who deny that the references that many other Jews have recognized as referring to Jesus, aren't about Jesus. It also cites some of those references. I have books written by Jewish and non-Jewish scholars about Jesus in the Talmud and Judaic literature. So your attempt here on the forum to pretend that Jews never mentioned Jesus or Christians in their Talmud and other Jewish religious literature is a bald-faced lie—damage control.

 

[rosends]

It's like you didn't think before you posted. It admits of course, that there are Jews who deny that the references that many other Jews have recognized as referring to Jesus, aren't about Jesus. It also cites some of those references. I have books written by Jewish and non-Jewish scholars about Jesus in the Talmud and Judaic literature. So your attempt here on the forum to pretend that Jews never mentioned Jesus or Christians in their Talmud and other Jewish religious literature is a bald-faced lie—damage control.

I don't have to pretend anything. I presented the discussions of the actual sources which show that the text isn't about Jesus. Do you want to discuss the passages? I can do so using the Hebrew and Aramaic in which they were written. Can you participate in that discussion or are you going to rely on your books and let others think for you while you level accusations that you can't back up on your own? You call something a lie when you lack the skill to go into the sources and check on it.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I don't have to pretend anything. I presented the discussions of the actual sources which show that the text isn't about Jesus. Do you want to discuss the passages? I can do so using the Hebrew and Aramaic in which they were written. Can you participate in that discussion or are you going to rely on your books and let others think for you while you level accusations that you can't back up on your own? You call something a lie when you lack the skill to go into the sources and check on it.

Are you the Pope of Rabbinic Judaism? Not all Jewish and non-Jewish scholars agree with the conclusions made in the website you cited. If you want to pretend that the Jews never wrote about Jesus or Christians in the Talmud, and other religious literature, go right ahead, believe that. I said Jews have been pooping on the Christian faith since the 1st century, and I stand by that claim based on all of the evidence that I've studied. Believe whatever you want.

 

[rosends]

Are you the Pope of Rabbinic Judaism? Not all Jewish and non-Jewish scholars agree with the conclusions made in the website you cited. If you want to pretend that the Jews never wrote about Jesus or Christians in the Talmud, and other religious literature, go right ahead, believe that. I said Jews have been pooping on the Christian faith since the 1st century, and I stand by that claim based on all of the evidence that I've studied. Believe whatever you want.

feel free to stand on that claim as developed by other people for you. I read the original sources and have them backing me.

 

[DudleySmith]

He's right, you're just resorting to cheap insults and polemics. You essentially said nothing.

You meant to say I know a lot more about real history than you do, and it makes you pout and whine.

 

[TruthNotBS]

feel free to stand on that claim as developed by other people for you. I read the original sources and have them backing me.

Not according to the scholars that don't agree with you. Jews often spoke in code, using monikers, symbols representing that which for one reason or another they couldn't or didn't want to state explicitly. You know this, but you're being disingenuous, applying and appealing to the "deniability" aspect of the content in question. That's what the deniability element of the content is designed for.

Other times the Jews were explicit, speaking about Jesus, dumping on him, but in general, they spoke in code, obfuscating or masking who or what they were referring to. Of course, you're going to deny this, pretending otherwise, but most scholars agree with me, not you on this issue and the question of the rabbis deriding Jesus in Talmudic texts.

1. Hyam Maccoby - Maccoby was a Jewish scholar who discussed Talmudic references to Jesus in his works. He believed that certain passages in the Talmud referred to Jesus, interpreting them in the context of Jewish-Christian relations in antiquity. Maccoby’s interpretation suggests that the Talmudic rabbis had a critical and polemical view of Jesus.
2. Daniel Boyarin - A prominent Talmudic scholar and historian of religion, Boyarin has also touched upon the mentions of Jesus in the Talmud. He discusses these references in the broader context of Jewish-Christian interactions and the ways in which early Jewish texts engaged with Christian claims.
3. Peter Schäfer - Schäfer, a scholar in Jewish Studies, authored the book "Jesus in the Talmud" where he examined the passages that he believes refer to Jesus. He argues that these texts show a complex and nuanced Jewish response to Christianity, reflecting both engagement and critique.
4. Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz - Rabbi Steinsaltz, a prominent modern Talmud scholar, has written extensively about the Talmud. In his translations and commentaries, he notes the historical interpretations that certain passages may refer to Jesus and his followers.
5. Rabbi Gil Student - Rabbi Student is an Orthodox scholar and author who has addressed controversial topics within Jewish texts. He acknowledges that there are passages in the Talmud and other rabbinic literature that have been historically interpreted by as references to Jesus.

I have a library of Jewish-authored books that admit Jesus was mentioned in Talmudic literature, and other important Jewish texts between the 2nd and 6th centuries CE. Like I say, Jews like you are dishonest and use "hasbara" to mask the truth. After centuries of persecution, and being accused of deicide (Murdering God), who can blame you? You had to mask any reference to Jesus and Christians, lest the Christian authorities assault your community, burning your synagogues and your libraries. Jews fared relatively better (for the most part), living with Muslims than Christians. Muslims don't accuse Jews of murdering God, and neither do Unitarian Christians like myself. Unitarian Christians were also persecuted by "The Church".

Anyone can go online and find Orthodox Jews appealing to some of these texts about Jesus, making fun of him, or criticizing Christian claims by asserting Jesus was a mamzer (bastard) and magician, practicing sorcery.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Not according to the scholars that don't agree with you. Jews often spoke in code, using monikers, symbols representing that which for one reason or another they couldn't or didn't want to state explicitly. You know this, but you're being disingenuous, applying and appealing to the "deniability" aspect of the content in question. That's what the deniability element of the content is designed for.

Other times the Jews were explicit, speaking about Jesus, dumping on him, but in general, they spoke in code, obfuscating or masking who or what they were referring to. Of course, you're going to deny this, pretending otherwise, but most scholars agree with me, not you on this issue and the question of the rabbis deriding Jesus in Talmudic texts.

1. Hyam Maccoby - Maccoby was a Jewish scholar who discussed Talmudic references to Jesus in his works. He believed that certain passages in the Talmud referred to Jesus, interpreting them in the context of Jewish-Christian relations in antiquity. Maccoby’s interpretation suggests that the Talmudic rabbis had a critical and polemical view of Jesus.
2. Daniel Boyarin - A prominent Talmudic scholar and historian of religion, Boyarin has also touched upon the mentions of Jesus in the Talmud. He discusses these references in the broader context of Jewish-Christian interactions and the ways in which early Jewish texts engaged with Christian claims.
3. Peter Schäfer - Schäfer, a scholar in Jewish Studies, authored the book "Jesus in the Talmud" where he examined the passages that he believes refer to Jesus. He argues that these texts show a complex and nuanced Jewish response to Christianity, reflecting both engagement and critique.
4. Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz - Rabbi Steinsaltz, a prominent modern Talmud scholar, has written extensively about the Talmud. In his translations and commentaries, he notes the historical interpretations that certain passages may refer to Jesus and his followers.
5. Rabbi Gil Student - Rabbi Student is an Orthodox scholar and author who has addressed controversial topics within Jewish texts. He acknowledges that there are passages in the Talmud and other rabbinic literature that have been historically interpreted by as references to Jesus.

I have a library of Jewish-authored books that admit Jesus was mentioned in Talmudic literature, and other important Jewish texts between the 2nd and 6th centuries CE. Like I say, Jews like you are dishonest and use "hasbara" to mask the truth. After centuries of persecution, and being accused of deicide (Murdering God), who can blame you? You had to mask any reference to Jesus and Christians, lest the Christian authorities assault your community, burning your synagogues and your libraries. Jews fared relatively better (for the most part), living with Muslims than Christians. Muslims don't accuse Jews of murdering God, and neither do Unitarian Christians like myself. Unitarian Christians were also persecuted by "The Church".

Anyone can go online and find Orthodox Jews appealing to some of these texts about Jesus, making fun of him, or criticizing Christian claims by asserting Jesus was a mamzer (bastard) and magician, practicing sorcery.

Typo correction: "Faired relatively better" to fared relatively better.

 

[rosends]

Not according to the scholars that don't agree with you. Jews often spoke in code, using monikers, symbols representing that which for one reason or another they couldn't or didn't want to state explicitly.

They do? Tell me more about what "they" do. This is oh, so refreshing to have someone tell me what they do because otherwise, I wouldn't know.

You know this, but you're being disingenuous, applying and appealing to the "deniability" aspect of the content in question. That's what the deniability element of the content is designed for.

No, I'm making the point that your claim about what Jews do (dumping on Jesus) is not really true. While there are, by your own sources, some people who say that some of the source texts MIGHT be talking about Jesus, there are also plenty of voices who say that this isn't accurate and the textual references are not about Jesus. As such, there is no conclusive evidence that jews did any "dumping" because there isn't even a consensus on the texts references. You want to look at the "maybe" and decide that therefore, Jews have been dumping on Jesus. That's a victim mentality looking for a reason and latching on to anything.

Other times the Jews were explicit, speaking about Jesus, dumping on him, but in general, they spoke in code, obfuscating or masking who or what they were referring to. Of course, you're going to deny this, pretending otherwise, but most scholars agree with me, not you on this issue and the question of the rabbis deriding Jesus in Talmudic texts.

"most scholars"? Not by a longshot. The few sources you refer to do not constitute "most" nor do they say anything more than "maybe." But hey, you know all the secret codes they use, so feel free to read the original and discuss it. Can you do that? I can.

1. Hyam Maccoby - Maccoby was a Jewish scholar who discussed Talmudic references to Jesus in his works. He believed that certain passages in the Talmud referred to Jesus, interpreting them in the context of Jewish-Christian relations in antiquity. Maccoby’s interpretation suggests that the Talmudic rabbis had a critical and polemical view of Jesus.

Maccoby is no scholar, but I'm curious: do you subscribe to all of his views about Christianity and its texts or do you just want to cite him as an expert in the case where his belief coincides with your need to be a victim? The rest of your sources (though you provide no actual proof, just a cobbled list with unsupported claims) talk about what "he believes" or that "historical interpretations that certain passages MAY refer to Jesus" or that certain passages have been historically interpreted (but your post doesn't say by whom) as references to Jesus.

So what you have is a collection of equivocation without any support. Why don't we look at the passages themselves and discuss when they are set, what they say and what they refer to. I can post them in the Hebrew and Aramaic and we can go through them word for word. Interested?

1. Daniel Boyarin - A prominent Talmudic scholar and historian of religion, Boyarin has also touched upon the mentions of Jesus in the Talmud. He discusses these references in the broader context of Jewish-Christian interactions and the ways in which early Jewish texts engaged with Christian claims.
2. Peter Schäfer - Schäfer, a scholar in Jewish Studies, authored the book "Jesus in the Talmud" where he examined the passages that he believes refer to Jesus. He argues that these texts show a complex and nuanced Jewish response to Christianity, reflecting both engagement and critique.
3. Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz - Rabbi Steinsaltz, a prominent modern Talmud scholar, has written extensively about the Talmud. In his translations and commentaries, he notes the historical interpretations that certain passages may refer to Jesus and his followers.
4. Rabbi Gil Student - Rabbi Student is an Orthodox scholar and author who has addressed controversial topics within Jewish texts. He acknowledges that there are passages in the Talmud and other rabbinic literature that have been historically interpreted by as references to Jesus.

I have a library of Jewish-authored books that admit Jesus was mentioned in Talmudic literature, and other important Jewish texts between the 2nd and 6th centuries CE.

Sure you do, and surely every single one of the "Jewish-authored books" is by a scholar (maybe like you think Maccoby is a scholar) who likes to mention "other important Jewish texts" without naming them.

Did you have other claims of Judaism that you wanted to make without providing any actual information or reflecting any actual study? It is fun to watch.

 

[AqlAlim]

They do? Tell me more about what "they" do. This is oh, so refreshing to have someone tell me what they do because otherwise, I wouldn't know.

No, I'm making the point that your claim about what Jews do (dumping on Jesus) is not really true. While there are, by your own sources, some people who say that some of the source texts MIGHT be talking about Jesus, there are also plenty of voices who say that this isn't accurate and the textual references are not about Jesus. As such, there is no conclusive evidence that jews did any "dumping" because there isn't even a consensus on the texts references. You want to look at the "maybe" and decide that therefore, Jews have been dumping on Jesus. That's a victim mentality looking for a reason and latching on to anything.

"most scholars"? Not by a longshot. The few sources you refer to do not constitute "most" nor do they say anything more than "maybe." But hey, you know all the secret codes they use, so feel free to read the original and discuss it. Can you do that? I can.

Maccoby is no scholar, but I'm curious: do you subscribe to all of his views about Christianity and its texts or do you just want to cite him as an expert in the case where his belief coincides with your need to be a victim? The rest of your sources (though you provide no actual proof, just a cobbled list with unsupported claims) talk about what "he believes" or that "historical interpretations that certain passages MAY refer to Jesus" or that certain passages have been historically interpreted (but your post doesn't say by whom) as references to Jesus.

So what you have is a collection of equivocation without any support. Why don't we look at the passages themselves and discuss when they are set, what they say and what they refer to. I can post them in the Hebrew and Aramaic and we can go through them word for word. Interested?

Sure you do, and surely every single one of the "Jewish-authored books" is by a scholar (maybe like you think Maccoby is a scholar) who likes to mention "other important Jewish texts" without naming them.

Did you have other claims of Judaism that you wanted to make without providing any actual information or reflecting any actual study? It is fun to watch.

Does he need to list all of the scholars who agree with him, to assert that most scholarship does? He gave a few examples. All of your responses, just as when we debated the topic of the term "anti-Semticism" being exclusively referring to anti-Jewish bigotry, you're applying the same dishonest, sophistic claptrap rhetorical games. Your fallacious reasoning comes through every one of your posts.

 

[rosends]

Does he need to list all of the scholars who agree with him, to assert that most scholarship does? He gave a few examples. All of your responses, just as when we debated the topic of the term "anti-Semticism" being exclusively referring to anti-Jewish bigotry, you're applying the same dishonest, sophistic claptrap rhetorical games. Your fallacious reasoning comes through every one of your posts.

again with the "most scholarship" with no evidence? LOL.

You can feel free to run away from yet another poorly chosen position of yours if you aren't able to discuss the actual source material. Also, have fun lashing out when someone proves you wrong. it is fun to watch.

 

[AqlAlim]

again with the "most scholarship" with no evidence? LOL.

You can feel free to run away from yet another poorly chosen position of yours if you aren't able to discuss the actual source material. Also, have fun lashing out when someone proves you wrong. it is fun to watch.

You're delusional.

 

[rosends]

You're delusional.

and you are ignorant and hateful.

 

[TruthNotBS]

They do? Tell me more about what "they" do. This is oh, so refreshing to have someone tell me what they do because otherwise, I wouldn't know.

No, I'm making the point that your claim about what Jews do (dumping on Jesus) is not really true. While there are, by your own sources, some people who say that some of the source texts MIGHT be talking about Jesus, there are also plenty of voices who say that this isn't accurate and the textual references are not about Jesus. As such, there is no conclusive evidence that jews did any "dumping" because there isn't even a consensus on the texts references. You want to look at the "maybe" and decide that therefore, Jews have been dumping on Jesus. That's a victim mentality looking for a reason and latching on to anything.

"most scholars"? Not by a longshot. The few sources you refer to do not constitute "most" nor do they say anything more than "maybe." But hey, you know all the secret codes they use, so feel free to read the original and discuss it. Can you do that? I can.

Maccoby is no scholar, but I'm curious: do you subscribe to all of his views about Christianity and its texts or do you just want to cite him as an expert in the case where his belief coincides with your need to be a victim? The rest of your sources (though you provide no actual proof, just a cobbled list with unsupported claims) talk about what "he believes" or that "historical interpretations that certain passages MAY refer to Jesus" or that certain passages have been historically interpreted (but your post doesn't say by whom) as references to Jesus.

So what you have is a collection of equivocation without any support. Why don't we look at the passages themselves and discuss when they are set, what they say and what they refer to. I can post them in the Hebrew and Aramaic and we can go through them word for word. Interested?

Sure you do, and surely every single one of the "Jewish-authored books" is by a scholar (maybe like you think Maccoby is a scholar) who likes to mention "other important Jewish texts" without naming them.

Did you have other claims of Judaism that you wanted to make without providing any actual information or reflecting any actual study? It is fun to watch.

Your post is just full of your own opinions and as Aql said, sophistic claptrap.

 

[rosends]

Your post is just full of your own opinions and as Aql said, sophistic claptrap.

In other words, you can't discuss source material so you lash out and run away. Got it.

 

[AqlAlim]

and you are ignorant and hateful.

Whether I'm hateful or not is irrelevant as to whether what I'm saying is true or not. I can be hateful and correct. What I hate is your xenophobic, anti-human Jewish culture and religion. That I certainly hate, because I have to, if I'm human and love Allah (الله سبحانه وتعالىt). Your claim that I'm ignorant is just your opinion and for you to believe otherwise, makes you delusional. Majnoon, crazy, meshuggana.

It's ironic when ZioNazis accuse those who hate them, of being hateful, when the reason that most of that "goy" hate is directed at them, is due to their own hatred and evil works against the "goyim". Jews like Rosend pretend all of the hatred directed at them by non-Jews ("goyim"), is always irrational, and of course invalid. Supposedly it's due to the non-Jews having some type of spiritual disease or divine curse upon them that drives them to, for no reason at all, hate Jews. Some Jews like Rosend claim that the non-Jews hate them because they're jealous of the Jews. That's how they justify or explain away the fact that so many non-Jews mistrust and hate them.

I disagree with Christian Man when he claims Jews were often persecuted by Christians for "deicide" or "God murder", they were more often than not held in contempt and expelled from the lands that hosted them due to their own wicked behavior and beliefs. Even rabbis admit this:

(From the horses' mouth, from rabbis themselves, admitting what happened in Germany, with respect to the hatred Germans had for Jews. Was it an irrational hatred? Those rabbis admit, that it wasn't irrational, but completely rational.)

THE JEWISH STATE OF ISRAHELL, SODOMIZING THE HOLY LAND SINCE 1948.​

The ZioNazis (both secular and religious) are their own worst enemies, naturally creating hatred and attracting persecution. Can you imagine allowing Jews to live in your country and then discovering that they hate your guts for being "goyim" (Gentiles - non-Jewish, Christian, Muslim..etc)? They have a sick culture and religion that brainwashes (i.e. conditions, contaminates, poisons. etc) them into thinking that they are ontologically, essentially superior to everybody else:

​

They're supposedly, according to their rabbis, constitutionally, substantially superior in every way, to non-Jews (They're practically another species), hence they often condescendingly and presumptuously assume they're the masters of an enslaved humanity under the heels of their Jewish nation and religion.

​

These Jews identify Christianity and Western civilization as "Edom", "Esau" and "Amalek".

​

They believe the "goyim" (practically all of humanity), will be enslaved by Jews.

I was a so-called "sabbath goy" when I was younger, as a young teenager in the 1980s, and later in my mid-20s, when I returned home to Miami Beach, from the military in the late 90s. I worked for Jews and I know what they say about non-Jews, how they use the word "goy" pejoratively, as a type of denigrating label.

In order to get better treatment from them, I told them my father was Jewish. So they treated me as a potential convert to Judaism, a "Jewish soul" stuck in a goy's body. I would sit amongst them, and hear them speak about the goyim, as if they're animals. I got into a really bad argument with one of them and he reminded me that my mother is a "shishka", or mere goy-girlfriend of a Jewish man (my father, who they thought was Jewish). I know how these people think, and that's one of the reasons I chose to convert to Islam rather than Judaism or become a Noahide (a non-Jewish caste within Judaism, under the heel of Jews, that receives instructions from rabbis yet remains non-Jewish, hence inferior to Jews).

Jews are the most xenophobic, bigoted, ethnocentric, elitist, narcissistic, arrogant, smug group of people on Earth. The French, Japanese, Koreans, Mandeans, and Zoroastrians, are nothing as far as their ethnocentricism and narcissism compared to the Jews. Jews take that crap to a whole new level. To the point of being anti-human and absolutely demonic. Even secular Jews are contaminated by this crap-thinking. It bleeds from the Orthodox religious Jews into the Jewish secular world. Why are there so many Jewish liberals trying to destroy Christian, Western civilization with secularism?

Rosend and his ilk will always play the victims, crying foul, whenever non-Jews call them out. They love to operate under the radar, behind a false facade when interacting with the non-Jewish world, hiding as much of their true sentiments, and ideology with respect to the non-Jews as possible. They don't fool me, because I've been an "insider", amongst them, as their "sabbath goy" and employee, working for "Chasidim". If the world ever falls into their hands, we're doomed.

Muslims don't see non-Muslims as essentially inferior or future slaves. We're much more open to non-Muslims converting to our religion and becoming members of our community. We don't presume some type of divine "chosenness" or that Muslims are the mediators between God and man. We Muslims do believe the world must eventually be under the rule of Sharia or divine law. But we have a different view of humanity and ourselves, allowing non-Muslims to exist with rights, that don't exist in Judaism. Muslims aren't little gods, divinely "chosen" by Almighty God, to act as priests to humanity. That's the Jewish religious psychosis, that generates much of the hatred Rosend constantly complains about. A hatred well deserved, and rational.

You're not the purveyors of "Tikun Olam" (repairing the world), you're the destroyers.