MarcATL
Diamond Member
- Aug 12, 2009
- 47,678
- 26,273
- 2,605
Are you using the King James Bible as your source of final authority, or something else?
[MENTION=49937]Daniyel[/MENTION]
Keeping the Sabbath Holy
- Thread starter Avatar4321
- Start date
Are you using the King James Bible as your source of final authority, or something else?
[MENTION=49937]Daniyel[/MENTION]
MarcATL
Diamond Member
- Aug 12, 2009
- 47,678
- 26,273
- 2,605
I'm curious brother. What is sin?
Can you define that for me?
[MENTION=29246]The Irish Ram[/MENTION]
DriftingSand
Cast Iron Member
I'm not too certain I can make my point more clear but considering the fact that I'm not living in the time of Moses and bound by the (now passe') Old Covenant I can only reiterate that there is no commandment under the New Covenant that followers of Christ MUST rest on Saturday.
There are a number of sub-laws attached to the 4th Commandment. One must do no work whatsoever; one must not cook or ignite a flame/fire; must must not gather sticks; one must eat unleavened bread; one must not leave his/her abode, etc.
As a Christian I focus on loving my neighbor which is the fulfillment of the law (see verses above).
Following are the only commandments given to Christians:
Matthew 22:36-40, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
The Pharisees said:
Acts 15:5, "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
Peter responds:
Acts 15:10, "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"
The conclusion of the Apostles:
Acts 15:19-20, "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."
Acts 15:29, "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
Acts 21:25, "As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."
No mention whatsoever that the Gentile converts to Christianity MUST keep a Saturday Sabbath.
I, as a Christian, am not bound by the terms of the Old Covenant.
@MarcATL
Last edited:
Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
If only out of respect for tradition, even though I don't believe in God, I do take some notice of the Sabbath. I make up my sleep deficit, refrain from going out, doing actual work (tying my shoes is no more 'working' than putting my shirt and pants on is.) And I go note the beginning and end of the Sabbath friday and saturday evening.
I'm an orthodox Jewish myself, I Don't know what King James bible is so maybe we are talking about the same thing, can you please explain to me about King James Bible? [MENTION=20450]MarcATL[/MENTION]
Last edited:
Indeependent
Diamond Member
- Nov 19, 2013
- 73,633
- 28,515
- 2,250
Daniyel is not using the KJV.
The opnion of the San Hedrin is that a soul that yearns to observe God's gift of Shabbos, as Commanded by God to the Children of Israel, should become a Jew; otherwise stop using a gift not given to your particular Life System.
Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
More precisely, non-Jews aren't obliged to follow all ~613 commandments but after the 7 Noahide ones are free to observe which ever additional ones don't apply specifically to Jews, or those in Israel, etc..
Indeependent
Diamond Member
- Nov 19, 2013
- 73,633
- 28,515
- 2,250
Non-Jews can observe any Command except Shabbos, which includes any of the Yom Tovim.
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
I will wait until Monday to answer this question....
MarcATL
Diamond Member
- Aug 12, 2009
- 47,678
- 26,273
- 2,605
What is your understanding of the above texts?
[MENTION=47390]DriftingSand[/MENTION].
I can't address those you posted until you deal with the above.
21 I am not one of those who treats Christ’s death as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping Jewish laws, then there was no need for Christ to die.21 I am not one of those who treats Christ’s death as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping Jewish laws, then there was no need for Christ to die.Galations 2:21
Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
Are many specificly for Jews non-Jews cannot perform like ones applying to the Kohain and those about not intermarrying with gentiles that come to mind.
Oh, foolish Galatians! What magician has hypnotized you and cast an evil spell upon you? For you used to see the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death as clearly as though I had waved a placard before you with a picture on it of Christ dying on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by trying to keep the Jewish laws? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you heard about Christ and trusted him to save you. 3 Then have you gone completely crazy? For if trying to obey the Jewish laws never gave you spiritual life in the first place, why do you think that trying to obey them now will make you stronger Christians? 4 You have suffered so much for the Gospel. Now are you going to just throw it all overboard? I can hardly believe it!
5 I ask you again, does God give you the power of the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you as a result of your trying to obey the Jewish laws? No, of course not. It is when you believe in Christ and fully trust him.
6 Abraham had the same experience—God declared him fit for heaven only because he believed God’s promises. 7 You can see from this that the real children of Abraham are all the men of faith who truly trust in God.
8-9 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would save the Gentiles also, through their faith. God told Abraham about this long ago when he said, “I will bless those in every nation who trust in me as you do.” And so it is: all who trust in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received.
10 Yes, and those who depend on the Jewish laws to save them are under God’s curse, for the Scriptures point out very clearly, “Cursed is everyone who at any time breaks a single one of these laws that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” 11 Consequently, it is clear that no one can ever win God’s favor by trying to keep the Jewish laws because God has said that the only way we can be right in his sight is by faith. As the prophet Habakkuk says it, “The man who finds life will find it through trusting God.” 12 How different from this way of faith is the way of law, which says that a man is saved by obeying every law of God, without one slip. 13 But Christ has bought us out from under the doom of that impossible system by taking the curse for our wrongdoing upon himself. For it is written in the Scripture, “Anyone who is hanged on a tree is cursed” (as Jesus was hung upon a wooden cross. Galations 3:1-13
5 I ask you again, does God give you the power of the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you as a result of your trying to obey the Jewish laws? No, of course not. It is when you believe in Christ and fully trust him.
6 Abraham had the same experience—God declared him fit for heaven only because he believed God’s promises. 7 You can see from this that the real children of Abraham are all the men of faith who truly trust in God.
8-9 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would save the Gentiles also, through their faith. God told Abraham about this long ago when he said, “I will bless those in every nation who trust in me as you do.” And so it is: all who trust in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received.
10 Yes, and those who depend on the Jewish laws to save them are under God’s curse, for the Scriptures point out very clearly, “Cursed is everyone who at any time breaks a single one of these laws that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” 11 Consequently, it is clear that no one can ever win God’s favor by trying to keep the Jewish laws because God has said that the only way we can be right in his sight is by faith. As the prophet Habakkuk says it, “The man who finds life will find it through trusting God.” 12 How different from this way of faith is the way of law, which says that a man is saved by obeying every law of God, without one slip. 13 But Christ has bought us out from under the doom of that impossible system by taking the curse for our wrongdoing upon himself. For it is written in the Scripture, “Anyone who is hanged on a tree is cursed” (as Jesus was hung upon a wooden cross. Galations 3:1-13
Indeependent
Diamond Member
- Nov 19, 2013
- 73,633
- 28,515
- 2,250
The Seven Noachide Law, of which there are nuanced variances, applied to Adam and all non-Jews throughout eternity.
Intermarriage? I'm not sure what you mean?
The Torah does not recognize Kiddushin ("Separation" in English) for anyone except for between an adult Jewish Male and an Adult Jewish Female.
Indeependent
Diamond Member
- Nov 19, 2013
- 73,633
- 28,515
- 2,250
So have you burned your copy of The Book Of James yet?
God’s promise to save through faith—and God wrote this promise down and signed it—could not be canceled or changed four hundred and thirty years later when God gave the Ten Commandments. 18 If obeying those laws could save us, then it is obvious that this would be a different way of gaining God’s favor than Abraham’s way, for he simply accepted God’s promise.
19 Well then, why were the laws given? They were added after the promise was given, to show men how guilty they are of breaking God’s laws. But this system of law was to last only until the coming of Christ, the Child to whom God’s promise was made. (And there is this further difference. God gave his laws to angels to give to Moses, who then gave them to the people; 20 but when God gave his promise to Abraham, he did it by himself alone, without angels or Moses as go-betweens.)
21-22 Well then, are God’s laws and God’s promises against each other? Of course not! If we could be saved by his laws, then God would not have had to give us a different way to get out of the grip of sin—for the Scriptures insist we are all its prisoners. The only way out is through faith in Jesus Christ; the way of escape is open to all who believe him.
23 Until Christ came we were guarded by the law, kept in protective custody, so to speak, until we could believe in the coming Savior.
24 Let me put it another way. The Jewish laws were our teacher and guide until Christ came to give us right standing with God through our faith. 25 But now that Christ has come, we don’t need those laws any longer to guard us and lead us to him. 26 For now we are all children of God through faith in Jesus Christ, 27 and we who have been baptized into union with Christ are enveloped by him. 28 We are no longer Jews or Greeks or slaves or free men or even merely men or women, but we are all the same—we are Christians; we are one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that we are Christ’s we are the true descendants of Abraham, and all of God’s promises to him belong to us.
GALATIONS 3:17-29
19 Well then, why were the laws given? They were added after the promise was given, to show men how guilty they are of breaking God’s laws. But this system of law was to last only until the coming of Christ, the Child to whom God’s promise was made. (And there is this further difference. God gave his laws to angels to give to Moses, who then gave them to the people; 20 but when God gave his promise to Abraham, he did it by himself alone, without angels or Moses as go-betweens.)
21-22 Well then, are God’s laws and God’s promises against each other? Of course not! If we could be saved by his laws, then God would not have had to give us a different way to get out of the grip of sin—for the Scriptures insist we are all its prisoners. The only way out is through faith in Jesus Christ; the way of escape is open to all who believe him.
23 Until Christ came we were guarded by the law, kept in protective custody, so to speak, until we could believe in the coming Savior.
24 Let me put it another way. The Jewish laws were our teacher and guide until Christ came to give us right standing with God through our faith. 25 But now that Christ has come, we don’t need those laws any longer to guard us and lead us to him. 26 For now we are all children of God through faith in Jesus Christ, 27 and we who have been baptized into union with Christ are enveloped by him. 28 We are no longer Jews or Greeks or slaves or free men or even merely men or women, but we are all the same—we are Christians; we are one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that we are Christ’s we are the true descendants of Abraham, and all of God’s promises to him belong to us.
GALATIONS 3:17-29
DriftingSand
Cast Iron Member
The above texts are in direct relationship to God's Covenant (the Mosaic Covenant) with the 12 tribes of Israel. They speak for themselves.
Christ came to "fulfill" the law and the prophets.
Christ is greater than the Sabbath.
A prophecy for Jews who keep a 7th day Sabbath. Pray that they not have to flee from major tribulation on a day that they aren't prepared.
Look at the previous verse (Mark 2:26). Christ is blatantly breaking Old Covenant law by eating the shewbread which was only to be eaten by the Levitical Priests. Christ is making a major statement that the needs of mankind are greater than the ordinances of the Old Covenant. Christ has become our rest and that rest can be utilized any day of the week at any time of the day.
The women were doing what they were accustomed to do based on a history of tradition. Nevertheless, they were not bound to keep an Old Covenant commandment under the New Covenant mandate.
Christ's commandments can be found in Matthew 22:36-40
"His Commandments" = Love God and Love They Neighbor. Love is the fulfillment of the law: Romans 13:8, 13:10; Galatians 5:14, etc.
Christ's grace is not a "get out of jail free card" that allows us to seek our own lusts nor an excuse to treat our neighbors poorly. Nor is His grace a command that we eat unleavened bread; abstain from pork; blow a ram's horn at a new moon; stone an adulterer to death; sacrifice a goat at the temple alter; etc.
The Mosaic ordinances were nailed to the cross. The Old Testament laws were "shadows of things to come" -- Christ being the fulfillment.
Hebrews 10:1, "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."
Agreed! James makes it clear that if someone is going to seek righteousness by keeping the entire law then they must keep all of it without fault. Look at a woman with lust? You failed to keep the law. Call your brother a fool? You failed to keep the law. Cook a meal on Saturday? You failed to keep the law. Tell a "white lie?" You failed to keep the law. Eat leavened bread on Saturday? You failed to keep the law. Fail to stone a Sabbath breaker caught picking up sticks on Saturday? You fail to keep the law. Fail to sacrifice a lamb without blemish for sin atonement? You fail to keep the law. And the list goes on and on and on and on. Bottom line? We can't become righteous by our works.
See Christ's two great commandments listed in Matthew 22.
@DriftingSand , @Chuckt , @Jeremiah , @LadyGunSlinger , @GISMYS , @Avatar4321 , @MarcATL
Indeependent
Diamond Member
- Nov 19, 2013
- 73,633
- 28,515
- 2,250
What are you talking about?
If you can't bother to read about Avraham's life from Genesis then don't comment.
Similar threads
New Topics
-
-
-
-
Please comment on new “ Project Hell Marry trailer ?? Getting great reviews- Started by Quasar44
- Replies: 0
-
Jasmine Crockett’s Security Guard Fatally Shot By Dallas SWAT In Standoff – What We Know- Started by excalibur
- Replies: 2
