Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Gun free Zones and drug free zones are an administrative tool allowing the criminal justice system to add an enhancement to a sentence for violating any laws within a specified area. Thus if someone commits even a low grade misdemeanor in such a zone, and has a gun in their possession, they can get a one year CJ enhancement to any sentence they may receive for the initial crime.

I'm so sorry if calling Kaz a jerk hurt his feelings. But arrogant ignoramuses need to be put in their place.

Fees by the way are the new tax, as are enhancements and penalty assessments.

Gun free zones make criminals out of law abiding citizens. Drug free zones do not.

 

[MikeK]

And again.....more and more Americans are owning and carrying guns and the gun murder and accident rate is going down...not up.....

I haven't bothered to research that for accuracy but I'll take your word for it -- mainly because I want to believe it.

I have always believed the cause of much crime is the universal prohibition against concealed carry. I believe an armed society is a polite and safe society.

If there were no laws against carrying guns the vast majority of violent crazies would be dead by now and our population would be acclimated to safe and proper conduct while armed. But the gun laws have prevented that orientation to evolve over time and if the prohibition were lifted today there would be an explosion of precipitous gun violence until all the screwballs are eliminated, which will take time.

 

[MikeK]

Gun free zones make criminals out of law abiding citizens. Drug free zones do not.

They certainly do.

The utterly insane drug laws, and drug free zones, have packed the prisons with individuals who have never harmed anyone, nor would they, and have ruined the lives of millions more by stigmatizing them with "criminal" records for "offenses" as trivial as possession of a few grams of marijuana.

 

[Little-Acorn]

And again.....more and more Americans are owning and carrying guns and the gun murder and accident rate is going down...not up.....

The post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this) fallacy is based upon the mistaken notion that simply because one thing happens after another, the first event was a cause of the second event. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for many superstitions and erroneous beliefs.

The hysterical gun-haters have been insisting that if more people own guns, more violence will result.

But the opposite has been happening.

The gun-haters are clearly wrong.

 

[kaz]

It should strike everyone that follows the argumentative style of the right wingers. When the politics or legal system from another country fits so conveniently into their argument they use it. However, if it doesn't their quick and only response is to those that have another point of view........."move if you don't like it here."
Funny.]

Liberals tell me that all the time

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

The Copenhagen shooting, the guy got off an estimated 200 rounds before presumedly running out of ammo and fleeing. That's what'll happen in every society that bans firearms. Only bad guys will have them, and they'll use them unchallenged.

 

[kaz]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

The Copenhagen shooting, the guy got off an estimated 200 rounds before presumedly running out of ammo and fleeing. That's what'll happen in every society that bans firearms. Only bad guys will have them, and they'll use them unchallenged.

Agreed, if you saw my first response, I misread it.

 

[kaz]

What do you propose?
More prisons?

Thanks for sharing Rabbit, now look up the form of questions I posted for evidence you are what you accuse me of being; then read all of my responses. IM(not so)HO your lack of substance and inability to defend your ideology (Crazy Right Winger) has many explanations, not the least of which is you're poorly educated and have a callous disregard for anyone and any idea which threatens your ego. You may not be dull normal, but there is no evidence to suggest that is not true.

That still doesnt answer the question of what gun laws do you support that will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

To keep guns out of the hands of criminals? Well, that is a start, keep them in prison

 

[kaz]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

Rabbi gets the thread, you don't. The point is you can't. So all gun laws do it allow only criminals to be armed. Tell the truth, you didn't read my first post explaining that, did you?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

The Copenhagen shooting, the guy got off an estimated 200 rounds before presumedly running out of ammo and fleeing. That's what'll happen in every society that bans firearms. Only bad guys will have them, and they'll use them unchallenged.

So if we have gun laws, both criminals and non-criminals will have guns.

If we don't have gun laws, only criminals will have guns.

What?

You're going to have to walk me through that logic, sparky.

What good are gun laws if by definition, someone using a firearm criminally doesn't not do their crime because of the law, or some posted "gun free zone" sign?

Laws only effect law-abidding people, not criminals. And in a country like the US where there's about as many guns in private hands as there are people, legislating the problem away is impossible because even a full ban on new sales still leaves over 300 million in distribution. Countries with long standing bans like in Europe fair better only because it's had so much time to do its thing there aren't many guns in circulation anyway. But it's an unfair comparison to try and claim gun laws work because they work in countries where guns have been illegal for generations. Of course they work there, there aren't that many to begin with. The laws there then are redundant.

 

[kaz]

Asking the same question over and over can be a logical fallacy, something the right wing seems particularly adept at - maybe the only thing. For those who need some explanation why this particular form or rhetoric is used by Rabbi and others members of the Crazy Right Wing, look up "Complex Question" or "Loaded Question". In addition to being annoying, asking the same thing over and over is quite childish.

Evading a question over and over is something the left seems particularly adept at - maybe the only thing

 

[kaz]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

The Copenhagen shooting, the guy got off an estimated 200 rounds before presumedly running out of ammo and fleeing. That's what'll happen in every society that bans firearms. Only bad guys will have them, and they'll use them unchallenged.

So if we have gun laws, both criminals and non-criminals will have guns.

If we don't have gun laws, only criminals will have guns.

What?

You're going to have to walk me through that logic, sparky.

What good are gun laws if by definition, someone using a firearm criminally doesn't not do their crime because of the law, or some posted "gun free zone" sign?

Laws only effect law-abidding people, not criminals. And in a country like the US where there's about as many guns in private hands as there are people, legislating the problem away is impossible because even a full ban on new sales still leaves over 300 million in distribution. Countries with long standing bans like in Europe fair better only because it's had so much time to do its thing there aren't many guns in circulation anyway. But it's an unfair comparison to try and claim gun laws work because they work in countries where guns have been illegal for generations. Of course they work there, there aren't that many to begin with. The laws there then are redundant.

Mea Culpa, I did post that I'd misread your post, but you'd copied it before I saw that. It's on me.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

The Copenhagen shooting, the guy got off an estimated 200 rounds before presumedly running out of ammo and fleeing. That's what'll happen in every society that bans firearms. Only bad guys will have them, and they'll use them unchallenged.

Agreed, if you saw my first response, I misread it.

Ok

 

[kaz]

The best way for progressives to keep guns out of the hands of criminals would be to not buy them. Just saying

Just saying? Just don't bother, that's what it's worth.

LOL, the irony of your non-content post to make that point...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The best way for progressives to keep guns out of the hands of criminals would be to not buy them. Just saying

Just saying? Just don't bother, that's what it's worth.

LOL, the irony of your non-content post to make that point...

What goes around comes around, many weeks later.

 

[kaz]

The best way for progressives to keep guns out of the hands of criminals would be to not buy them. Just saying

Just saying? Just don't bother, that's what it's worth.

LOL, the irony of your non-content post to make that point...

What goes around comes around, many weeks later.

I keep up the best I can, I get a lot of replies. Besides, you post nothing on a continual basis, the point is still timely

 

[kaz]

So RW, in honor of your thread

What's your plan, big guy?

 

[kaz]

You come on here day after day about how bad you have it as gun owners continue to slaughter other Americans

So what's your plan, big guy?

 

[2aguy]

You come on here day after day about how bad you have it as gun owners continue to slaughter other Americans

So what's your plan, big guy?

And continue to stop or prevent violent criminals and save lives..to the tune of 1.6 million a year......gun murders in 2013...8,454....accidental gun deaths 2013...505....

So....try to do the math...........

 

[kaz]

You come on here day after day about how bad you have it as gun owners continue to slaughter other Americans

So what's your plan, big guy?

And continue to stop or prevent violent criminals and save lives..to the tune of 1.6 million a year......gun murders in 2013...8,454....accidental gun deaths 2013...505....

So....try to do the math...........

We won't get an answer, RW likes to hit and run ... away ...