Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[kaz]

They're too stupid to have a plan to answer the question asked in the OP.

So you seriously think you answered it with State licensing? That will keep guns out of the hands of criminals? We have State licensing now, Homey, and criminals have lots of guns. Your plan didn't work. But you think we are the stupid ones? With your plan being what we do now that isn't working now? LOL.

 

[kaz]

That's cause you're stupid.

Do you know what the thread title is? Likely not, since your biases cloud any judgment you might have if you were not mentally challenged.

I'll help since you and Kaz are too stupid, too biased and frankly jerks:

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

What is your plan Rabbit, Kaz?

You calling anyone a "jerk" is just too funny. And if you read my original post, which you obviously didn't, you would know my plan. We can't, let honest citizens defend ourselves without government interference. States which allow citizens more ability to defend themselves have fewer shootings to start with. There's a reason for that. It's the same reason mass shooters like to go to gun free zones. Like the parking lot of a military instillation. How stupid is that being a gun free zone?

 

[Wry Catcher]

More bull shit. I've posted time over time my position on gun control; yet liars by omission - you, Rabbit and a number of others - lump me and all liberals into the same think tank and label us gun grabbers. That's a lie and if you don't know it you're brain dead.

I'll spell it out to you one more time Kaz, though being the dishonest lying member of the crazy right wing you'll continue to make false, misleading and iniquitous allegations to the contrary.

All citizens who are sober, sane and have no history violent behavior, have never been detained as a danger to themselves or others should have the absolute right to own, possess or have in their custody and control a gun, to protect their family, their home or business.

The absolute right with the following limits, ... Don't know what "absolute means, do you sparky?

All persons who want to own, possess or have in their custody and control of gun, need to be licensed by their State of Residence.

Those persons who have proven a need to carry a weapon in public need to have prior permission from the law enforcement agencies where the weapon will be carried as well as the license issued by the state.

All other persons who own, possess or have in their custody or control or provides to an unlicensed person a gun, may suffer the consequences of jail, fine, probation or confiscation of all firearms. Of course jail and the confiscation of all firearms will be the consequence for all serial offenders and first time offenders may have the charges dismissed if they are able to meet the standards set forth to obtain a license.

Anyone who sells, gives, loans or otherwise provides a gun to an unlicensed person is guilty of a felony, and may have their license suspended or revoked if they are licensed, and licensed or not face other penalties as proscribed by law.

And you believe this will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, that government licenses law abiding gun owners? Seriously?

And still you don't answer the question if since you believe the Second Amendment right can be granted only to those who the State approves and pay ongoing fees, can they do that with our first Amendment right to free speech?

Are gun dealers licensed? On going fees, I never wrote that. Better to put a tax on ammo and guns, a user fee.

Gun owners have to pay to maintain licenses, you didn't know that?

What about free speech, can we tax and put user fees on it? Or are some Amendments in the Bill of Rights more equal than others?

How about a tax on the words a writer uses, that would make it more expensive to insult people on the internet and in magazines and blogs....like the one he wants on ammo...and guns...put a user fee on words and computers and taxes...in fact....you should need to get a license for any means of communication...computers, tablets, smart phones.....that way the government will know that you aren't using those things for slander, libel, for selling illegal substances....organizing criminal activity with them.....sounds great....f**k the Bill of Rights....the government needs to control us so we don't do stupid stuff....why stop at just guns.......?

Gee, I'm sorry. I left you out when I mentioned fools. Mea culpa.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Gun free Zones and drug free zones are an administrative tool allowing the criminal justice system to add an enhancement to a sentence for violating any laws within a specified area. Thus if someone commits even a low grade misdemeanor in such a zone, and has a gun in their possession, they can get a one year CJ enhancement to any sentence they may receive for the initial crime.

I'm so sorry if calling Kaz a jerk hurt his feelings. But arrogant ignoramuses need to be put in their place.

Fees by the way are the new tax, as are enhancements and penalty assessments.

 

[The Rabbi]

More bull shit. I've posted time over time my position on gun control; yet liars by omission - you, Rabbit and a number of others - lump me and all liberals into the same think tank and label us gun grabbers. That's a lie and if you don't know it you're brain dead.

I'll spell it out to you one more time Kaz, though being the dishonest lying member of the crazy right wing you'll continue to make false, misleading and iniquitous allegations to the contrary.

All citizens who are sober, sane and have no history violent behavior, have never been detained as a danger to themselves or others should have the absolute right to own, possess or have in their custody and control a gun, to protect their family, their home or business.

The absolute right with the following limits, ... Don't know what "absolute means, do you sparky?

All persons who want to own, possess or have in their custody and control of gun, need to be licensed by their State of Residence.

Those persons who have proven a need to carry a weapon in public need to have prior permission from the law enforcement agencies where the weapon will be carried as well as the license issued by the state.

All other persons who own, possess or have in their custody or control or provides to an unlicensed person a gun, may suffer the consequences of jail, fine, probation or confiscation of all firearms. Of course jail and the confiscation of all firearms will be the consequence for all serial offenders and first time offenders may have the charges dismissed if they are able to meet the standards set forth to obtain a license.

Anyone who sells, gives, loans or otherwise provides a gun to an unlicensed person is guilty of a felony, and may have their license suspended or revoked if they are licensed, and licensed or not face other penalties as proscribed by law.

And you believe this will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, that government licenses law abiding gun owners? Seriously?

And still you don't answer the question if since you believe the Second Amendment right can be granted only to those who the State approves and pay ongoing fees, can they do that with our first Amendment right to free speech?

Are gun dealers licensed? On going fees, I never wrote that. Better to put a tax on ammo and guns, a user fee.

Gun owners have to pay to maintain licenses, you didn't know that?

What about free speech, can we tax and put user fees on it? Or are some Amendments in the Bill of Rights more equal than others?

Gun dealers are licensed to allow them to engage in commerce in guns.
Despite that there are many unlicensed dealers. I fail to see the connection here.

That's cause you're stupid.

Do you know what the thread title is? Likely not, since your biases cloud any judgment you might have if you were not mentally challenged.

I'll help since you and Kaz are too stupid, too biased and frankly jerks:

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

What is your plan Rabbit, Kaz?

You cant explain it and that makes me stupid?
Here's my plan: You can never keep guns from the hands of criminals. Deal with that first.

 

[The Rabbi]

Gun free Zones and drug free zones are an administrative tool allowing the criminal justice system to add an enhancement to a sentence for violating any laws within a specified area. Thus if someone commits even a low grade misdemeanor in such a zone, and has a gun in their possession, they can get a one year CJ enhancement to any sentence they may receive for the initial crime.

I'm so sorry if calling Kaz a jerk hurt his feelings. But arrogant ignoramuses need to be put in their place.

Fees by the way are the new tax, as are enhancements and penalty assessments.

OK that still wont keep guns from the hands of criminals.

 

[2aguy]

Gun free Zones and drug free zones are an administrative tool allowing the criminal justice system to add an enhancement to a sentence for violating any laws within a specified area. Thus if someone commits even a low grade misdemeanor in such a zone, and has a gun in their possession, they can get a one year CJ enhancement to any sentence they may receive for the initial crime.

I'm so sorry if calling Kaz a jerk hurt his feelings. But arrogant ignoramuses need to be put in their place.

Fees by the way are the new tax, as are enhancements and penalty assessments.

Yeah....it is already another felony for a felon to have in his possession a gun of any sort....so when the felon is going to the school to commit mass murder......do you really think that making it a gun free zone has any benefit at all.....other than to keep law abiding citizens from having a gun when the asshole comes in shooting? Or to scare law abiding citizens from carrying guns for self defense since they are the only ones who will really lose if they accidentally bring a gun onto school grounds under these stupid "gun free" zone laws....

That is the real purpose....to scare regular people with felonies and jail time for practicing their right to self defense....anti gunners are morons.....

 

[Wry Catcher]

The absolute right with the following limits, ... Don't know what "absolute means, do you sparky?

And you believe this will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, that government licenses law abiding gun owners? Seriously?

And still you don't answer the question if since you believe the Second Amendment right can be granted only to those who the State approves and pay ongoing fees, can they do that with our first Amendment right to free speech?

Are gun dealers licensed? On going fees, I never wrote that. Better to put a tax on ammo and guns, a user fee.

Gun owners have to pay to maintain licenses, you didn't know that?

What about free speech, can we tax and put user fees on it? Or are some Amendments in the Bill of Rights more equal than others?

Gun dealers are licensed to allow them to engage in commerce in guns.
Despite that there are many unlicensed dealers. I fail to see the connection here.

That's cause you're stupid.

Do you know what the thread title is? Likely not, since your biases cloud any judgment you might have if you were not mentally challenged.

I'll help since you and Kaz are too stupid, too biased and frankly jerks:

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

What is your plan Rabbit, Kaz?

You cant explain it and that makes me stupid?
Here's my plan: You can never keep guns from the hands of criminals. Deal with that first.

No, I had nothing to do with you being stupid.

That you don't understand the word mitigate is sad beyond comment. You were fast on the draw in taking my sarcastic comment to cut off their hands, but failed to comprehend that comment was not meant to be a solution, it was meant as a criticism of the thread itself.

I believe we can mitigate gun violence in America, maybe this article will make the curious agree with me; I have no hope for the willfully ignorant and the stupid.

U.S. Has More Guns 8211 And Gun Deaths 8211 Than Any Other Country Study Finds - ABC News

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Apparently it is to keep law abiding citizens from having guns...

 

[2aguy]

U.S. Has More Guns 8211 And Gun Deaths 8211 Than Any Other Country Study Finds - ABC News

Yeah...already debunked....and the point....after the terrorist attacks in France and Belgium....? The fact that when criminals in any country want or need guns...they get them...regardless of any gun control laws those countries impose....it isn't the guns but the attitude of the criminal that creates gun crime...change the attitude and culture of the criminal and you will lower the gun crime rate.....

 

[2aguy]

Another look at guns and crime in the world....


Harvard Gun Study Claims Banning Weapons Doesn t Decrease Violence

In the 46-page study, which can be read in its entirety here, Kates and Mauser looked at and compared data from the U.S. and parts of Europe to show that stricter laws don’t mean there is less crime. As an example, when looking at “intentional deaths,” or murder, on an international scope, the U.S. falls behind Russia, Estonia, and four other countries, ranking it seventh. More specifically, data shows that in Russia, where guns are banned, the murder rate is significantly higher than in the U.S in comparison.

“There is a compound assertion that guns are uniquely available in the United States compared with other modern developed nations, which is why the United States has by far the highest murder rate. Though these assertions have been endlessly repeated, [the latter] is, in fact, false and [the former] is substantially so,” the authors point out, based on their research.

Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they “observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns.”

The study goes on to say:

…the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

The paper resurfaced at a time when Boston itself has been looking for ways to combat gun violence, and gun-related deaths, after a sharp uptick in shootings in the city this year.

As of July, more than 100 people had been impacted by shootings in Boston in some way, and more than 17 people had been killed in the city by someone with a firearm. The increase in incidents showed a nearly 30 percent increase in gun-related deaths compared with the same time period in 2012. That number has gone up slightly since then.

 

[The Rabbi]

Are gun dealers licensed? On going fees, I never wrote that. Better to put a tax on ammo and guns, a user fee.

Gun owners have to pay to maintain licenses, you didn't know that?

What about free speech, can we tax and put user fees on it? Or are some Amendments in the Bill of Rights more equal than others?

Gun dealers are licensed to allow them to engage in commerce in guns.
Despite that there are many unlicensed dealers. I fail to see the connection here.

That's cause you're stupid.

Do you know what the thread title is? Likely not, since your biases cloud any judgment you might have if you were not mentally challenged.

I'll help since you and Kaz are too stupid, too biased and frankly jerks:

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

What is your plan Rabbit, Kaz?

You cant explain it and that makes me stupid?
Here's my plan: You can never keep guns from the hands of criminals. Deal with that first.

No, I had nothing to do with you being stupid.

That you don't understand the word mitigate is sad beyond comment. You were fast on the draw in taking my sarcastic comment to cut off their hands, but failed to comprehend that comment was not meant to be a solution, it was meant as a criticism of the thread itself.

I believe we can mitigate gun violence in America, maybe this article will make the curious agree with me; I have no hope for the willfully ignorant and the stupid.

U.S. Has More Guns 8211 And Gun Deaths 8211 Than Any Other Country Study Finds - ABC News

OK so you admit you have zero plan to keep guns from criminals, which is the topic of this thread. Try to keep up, really.
And your proposals will not even mitigate gun villence. They basically failed in Chicago.

 

[2aguy]

And again.....more and more Americans are owning and carrying guns and the gun murder and accident rate is going down...not up.....

 

[Wry Catcher]

Apparently it is to keep law abiding citizens from having guns...

I believe we can mitigate gun violence in America, maybe this article will make the curious agree with me; I have no hope for the willfully ignorant and the stupid.

U.S. Has More Guns 8211 And Gun Deaths 8211 Than Any Other Country Study Finds - ABC News

 

[Wry Catcher]

And again.....more and more Americans are owning and carrying guns and the gun murder and accident rate is going down...not up.....

The post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this) fallacy is based upon the mistaken notion that simply because one thing happens after another, the first event was a cause of the second event. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for many superstitions and erroneous beliefs.

See: post hoc fallacy - The Skeptic s Dictionary - Skepdic.com

 

[2aguy]

And again.....more and more Americans are owning and carrying guns and the gun murder and accident rate is going down...not up.....

The post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this) fallacy is based upon the mistaken notion that simply because one thing happens after another, the first event was a cause of the second event. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for many superstitions and erroneous beliefs.

See: post hoc fallacy - The Skeptic s Dictionary - Skepdic.com

Or....it just shows that each time a state was considering open or concealed carry, the anti gun nuts said it would turn the state into "Dodge City"....and this simple point shows that with more Americans carrying guns for self defense.....that didn't happen......the crime rate.....for whatever the series of reasons behind it may be......did not increase with more law abiding citizens carrying a gun.....one of the primary memes of the anti gun nuts....

So again....guns do not cause crime....criminals with the desire to use guns cause crime and mass shootings...the 3 terrorists in France, one of whom was a convicted criminal on a government terrorist watch list, were able to get fully automatic rifles, hand grenades and a rocket propelled grenade.......in a country that has gun control far stricter than our country does......

Puerto Rico....has the strictest gun control in the United States and it's territories....has one of the highest gun murder rates in the world...and it is an isolated island, and guns can't just be driven across a border....

Canada....stricter gun control than the U.S. and that did not stop the terrorist from killing that soldier or attacking the Canadian parliament...

Australia....has gun control far stricter than the U.S. and is constantly used to mock the United States on gun control...a terrorist got his hands on a gun and killed 4 people.....as well, gun crime in Australia is confined to biker gangs and the immigrant communites on this Island nation...

Belgium....again...stricter gun control than the U.S. and yet they supplied the guns, grenades and launcher to the French terrorists, and had their own terrorist incident with illegal guns......

Europe may have a lower murder rate in some cases than the U.S. but that is only the due to their criminals not wanting to use guns....the last incidents show that if they want guns, they can get guns......

Train inner city gangs to not use guns.....there, gun problem solved.....

 

[kaz]

Are gun dealers licensed? On going fees, I never wrote that. Better to put a tax on ammo and guns, a user fee.

Gun owners have to pay to maintain licenses, you didn't know that?

What about free speech, can we tax and put user fees on it? Or are some Amendments in the Bill of Rights more equal than others?

Gun dealers are licensed to allow them to engage in commerce in guns.
Despite that there are many unlicensed dealers. I fail to see the connection here.

That's cause you're stupid.

Do you know what the thread title is? Likely not, since your biases cloud any judgment you might have if you were not mentally challenged.

I'll help since you and Kaz are too stupid, too biased and frankly jerks:

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

What is your plan Rabbit, Kaz?

You cant explain it and that makes me stupid?
Here's my plan: You can never keep guns from the hands of criminals. Deal with that first.

No, I had nothing to do with you being stupid.

That you don't understand the word mitigate is sad beyond comment. You were fast on the draw in taking my sarcastic comment to cut off their hands, but failed to comprehend that comment was not meant to be a solution, it was meant as a criticism of the thread itself.

I believe we can mitigate gun violence in America, maybe this article will make the curious agree with me; I have no hope for the willfully ignorant and the stupid.

U.S. Has More Guns 8211 And Gun Deaths 8211 Than Any Other Country Study Finds - ABC News

Begging the question

 

[Wry Catcher]

Gun owners have to pay to maintain licenses, you didn't know that?

What about free speech, can we tax and put user fees on it? Or are some Amendments in the Bill of Rights more equal than others?

Gun dealers are licensed to allow them to engage in commerce in guns.
Despite that there are many unlicensed dealers. I fail to see the connection here.

That's cause you're stupid.

Do you know what the thread title is? Likely not, since your biases cloud any judgment you might have if you were not mentally challenged.

I'll help since you and Kaz are too stupid, too biased and frankly jerks:

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

What is your plan Rabbit, Kaz?

You cant explain it and that makes me stupid?
Here's my plan: You can never keep guns from the hands of criminals. Deal with that first.

No, I had nothing to do with you being stupid.

That you don't understand the word mitigate is sad beyond comment. You were fast on the draw in taking my sarcastic comment to cut off their hands, but failed to comprehend that comment was not meant to be a solution, it was meant as a criticism of the thread itself.

I believe we can mitigate gun violence in America, maybe this article will make the curious agree with me; I have no hope for the willfully ignorant and the stupid.

U.S. Has More Guns 8211 And Gun Deaths 8211 Than Any Other Country Study Finds - ABC News

Begging the question

You really need to stop pretending you understand logical fallacies or continue to prove you're an arrogant ignoramus.

The Fallacy-a-Day Podcast An easy way to learn the logical fallacies. Published each day Monday-Friday.The Fallacy-a-Day Podcast An easy way to learn the logical fallacies. Published each day Monday-Friday.

I suggest you sign up ^^^. It might make a debate with you substantive and challenging, for than now your efforts are a read for laughter.

 

[kaz]

Gun dealers are licensed to allow them to engage in commerce in guns.
Despite that there are many unlicensed dealers. I fail to see the connection here.

That's cause you're stupid.

Do you know what the thread title is? Likely not, since your biases cloud any judgment you might have if you were not mentally challenged.

I'll help since you and Kaz are too stupid, too biased and frankly jerks:

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

What is your plan Rabbit, Kaz?

You cant explain it and that makes me stupid?
Here's my plan: You can never keep guns from the hands of criminals. Deal with that first.

No, I had nothing to do with you being stupid.

That you don't understand the word mitigate is sad beyond comment. You were fast on the draw in taking my sarcastic comment to cut off their hands, but failed to comprehend that comment was not meant to be a solution, it was meant as a criticism of the thread itself.

I believe we can mitigate gun violence in America, maybe this article will make the curious agree with me; I have no hope for the willfully ignorant and the stupid.

U.S. Has More Guns 8211 And Gun Deaths 8211 Than Any Other Country Study Finds - ABC News

Begging the question

You really need to stop pretending you understand logical fallacies or continue to prove you're an arrogant ignoramus.

The Fallacy-a-Day Podcast An easy way to learn the logical fallacies. Published each day Monday-Friday.The Fallacy-a-Day Podcast An easy way to learn the logical fallacies. Published each day Monday-Friday.

I suggest you sign up ^^^. It might make a debate with you substantive and challenging, for than now your efforts are a read for laughter.

Someone having a substantiation and challenging debate with you? Wow, that would be impressive.

 

[MikeK]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

You've asked an important question here, one which in spite of how obvious it is rarely asked and never answered.

And you've presented an equally important and obvious analogy, which is drug prohibition. Governments have done everything allowable within Constitutional constraints, as well as a few things which exceed those constraints, and in spite of four decades of increasingly fanatical anti-drug efforts any type of drug which anyone has money to buy is readily available within ten miles (or two blocks) of any inhabited part of the United States.

Still, the bullshit goes on with the so-called "war on drugs" having evolved into several extremely profitable businesses, piss-testing and private prisons outstanding, and millions of Americans are employed in this clearly futile pursuit; cops, lawyers, judges, court personnel, prison officials, parole and probation officers, and millions of futures are ruined by the "criminal record" consequent to arrest for simple possession of even a recreational substance as relatively harmless as marijuana.

The "war on drugs" is a serious social malignancy