Justice for New Haven Firefighters

[WillowTree]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AkTPSU5h04&feature=related]YouTube - Firefighters claim reverse racism[/ame]

 

[Nik]

Doesn't prove your claim.

And it's actually less obvious than concluding that the black firefighters didn't study enough for the exam. At least that is rooted in an actual test, with actual results.

Sure. Because people do great on tests that they can't understand the language of....

So you think the black firefighters don't understand English and the test should have adminstered in ebonics? That actually sounds rather racist dude, seriously.

Man are you fucking stupid.

I'm talking about the spanish speaking hypo.

 

[DiveCon]

Sure. Because people do great on tests that they can't understand the language of....

So you think the black firefighters don't understand English and the test should have adminstered in ebonics? That actually sounds rather racist dude, seriously.

Man are you fucking stupid.

I'm talking about the Spanish speaking hypo.

you exclude the possibility that whites(Spaniards are white) would understand Spanish

 

[Nik]

So you think the black firefighters don't understand English and the test should have adminstered in ebonics? That actually sounds rather racist dude, seriously.

Man are you fucking stupid.

I'm talking about the spanish speaking hypo.

you exclude the possibility that whites(spaniards are white) would understand spanish

No, I don't.

The point isn't that NO white Americans speak Spanish. Obviously some do. Merely that a significantly higher percentage of hispanic, as opposed to white, Americans speak spanish.

 

[KittenKoder]

Except that it was discrimination is speculation. Throwing out the test results of a discriminatory test isn't discrimination against the people who would have benefitted. Brown v. Board of Ed wasn't discrimination against whites.

Prove that a test can be discriminatory ... and test results themselves are not proof. Proof would be showing a question that is truly "racist" ... still waiting for that.

Again, tell me why Hispanics would do so much better than white Americans on a spanish language test....

And you are changing the goalposts, liar.

Meh, tests are often taken in a variety of languages to accommodate that, it's not proof that they are discriminatory, or do you contend that black people speak a different language now instead? Which would be just as stupid.

 

[Father Time]

Its called racially disparate results.

And how the hell is that evidence?

Oh and can you prove that those results can't happen in a small sample size on their own?

Its EVIDENCE, not PROOF. Surely you understand the difference, yes?

It's not evidence.

A different explanation would be that the small amount of black firefighters didn't do well because those individuals weren't as smart or didn't study as well.

In fact I think Occam's razor would favor that explanation vs. the test on general firefighting ability was accidentally more favorable to non-blacks (and that the material they were given to study didn't compensate for this).

 

[DiveCon]

And how the hell is that evidence?

Oh and can you prove that those results can't happen in a small sample size on their own?

Its EVIDENCE, not PROOF. Surely you understand the difference, yes?

It's not evidence.

A different explanation would be that the small amount of black firefighters didn't do well because those individuals weren't as smart or didn't study as well.

In fact I think Occam's razor would favor that explanation vs. the test on general firefighting ability was accidentally more favorable to non-blacks (and that the material they were given to study didn't compensate for this).

exactly

 

[Nik]

Prove that a test can be discriminatory ... and test results themselves are not proof. Proof would be showing a question that is truly "racist" ... still waiting for that.

Again, tell me why Hispanics would do so much better than white Americans on a spanish language test....

And you are changing the goalposts, liar.

Meh, tests are often taken in a variety of languages to accommodate that, it's not proof that they are discriminatory, or do you contend that black people speak a different language now instead? Which would be just as stupid.

You really, honestly don't get the corollary?

Some tests require inherent everyday knowledge that not everyone has. A test in spanish isn't testing spanish, but if you don't know spanish you still can't do well even if you know the material really, really well.

 

[KittenKoder]

Again, tell me why Hispanics would do so much better than white Americans on a spanish language test....

And you are changing the goalposts, liar.

Meh, tests are often taken in a variety of languages to accommodate that, it's not proof that they are discriminatory, or do you contend that black people speak a different language now instead? Which would be just as stupid.

You really, honestly don't get the corollary?

Some tests require inherent everyday knowledge that not everyone has. A test in spanish isn't testing spanish, but if you don't know spanish you still can't do well even if you know the material really, really well.

... so then the people who failed must not have grown up or have been trained in the US, which is a bigger reason they shouldn't be in that field anyhow ...

 

[Nik]

And how the hell is that evidence?

Oh and can you prove that those results can't happen in a small sample size on their own?

Its EVIDENCE, not PROOF. Surely you understand the difference, yes?

It's not evidence.

A different explanation would be that the small amount of black firefighters didn't do well because those individuals weren't as smart or didn't study as well.

In fact I think Occam's razor would favor that explanation vs. the test on general firefighting ability was accidentally more favorable to non-blacks (and that the material they were given to study didn't compensate for this).

Actually the USSC has said that it is evidence.

 

[Nik]

Meh, tests are often taken in a variety of languages to accommodate that, it's not proof that they are discriminatory, or do you contend that black people speak a different language now instead? Which would be just as stupid.

You really, honestly don't get the corollary?

Some tests require inherent everyday knowledge that not everyone has. A test in spanish isn't testing spanish, but if you don't know spanish you still can't do well even if you know the material really, really well.

... so then the people who failed must not have grown up or have been trained in the US, which is a bigger reason they shouldn't be in that field anyhow ...

Way to take the facts of an analogy and treat them as if they are true in this case. An analogy means the reasoning is similar, not the facts per se.

 

[DiveCon]

You really, honestly don't get the corollary?

Some tests require inherent everyday knowledge that not everyone has. A test in spanish isn't testing spanish, but if you don't know spanish you still can't do well even if you know the material really, really well.

... so then the people who failed must not have grown up or have been trained in the US, which is a bigger reason they shouldn't be in that field anyhow ...

Way to take the facts of an analogy and treat them as if they are true in this case. An analogy means the reasoning is similar, not the facts per se.

you attempted to use the same anaolgy to prove the opposite

 

[KittenKoder]

You really, honestly don't get the corollary?

Some tests require inherent everyday knowledge that not everyone has. A test in spanish isn't testing spanish, but if you don't know spanish you still can't do well even if you know the material really, really well.

... so then the people who failed must not have grown up or have been trained in the US, which is a bigger reason they shouldn't be in that field anyhow ...

Way to take the facts of an analogy and treat them as if they are true in this case. An analogy means the reasoning is similar, not the facts per se.

No, just showing you there is no reason they should do worse on the same test for work if they trained just as hard as anyone else ... unless they are 1. inherently less intelligent or 2. not US trained. No other way they could have failed the same test ...

 

[Nik]

... so then the people who failed must not have grown up or have been trained in the US, which is a bigger reason they shouldn't be in that field anyhow ...

Way to take the facts of an analogy and treat them as if they are true in this case. An analogy means the reasoning is similar, not the facts per se.

you attempted to use the same anaolgy to prove the opposite

I used the reasoning of the analogy, not the facts, dumbass.

 

[Nik]

... so then the people who failed must not have grown up or have been trained in the US, which is a bigger reason they shouldn't be in that field anyhow ...

Way to take the facts of an analogy and treat them as if they are true in this case. An analogy means the reasoning is similar, not the facts per se.

No, just showing you there is no reason they should do worse on the same test for work if they trained just as hard as anyone else ... unless they are 1. inherently less intelligent or 2. not US trained. No other way they could have failed the same test ...

Wait...I thought it was just that they were inherently less intelligent or it wasn't related to race? Now you are adding a third condition?

At least you can learn, slow as it is to teach you anything at all.

Now that you've admitted that there are other things aside from intelligence which can make someone do well, or poorly, on a test, can you imagine that maybe, just maybe, some are more subtle? Perhaps some are linked to race and aren't obvious? Perhaps *gasp* they aren't completely obvious to you?

 

[KittenKoder]

Way to take the facts of an analogy and treat them as if they are true in this case. An analogy means the reasoning is similar, not the facts per se.

you attempted to use the same anaolgy to prove the opposite

I used the reasoning of the analogy, not the facts, dumbass.

What's really happening is that every time someone shows your position is wrong you move to another one, moving the goal posts as I call it frequently ... so then we shoot there and hit, then you change again. You are a rabbit that has already been shot but doesn't realize you should be laying down now.

 

[Nik]

you attempted to use the same anaolgy to prove the opposite

I used the reasoning of the analogy, not the facts, dumbass.

What's really happening is that every time someone shows your position is wrong you move to another one, moving the goal posts as I call it frequently ... so then we shoot there and hit, then you change again. You are a rabbit that has already been shot but doesn't realize you should be laying down now.

Maybe like saying there is nothing other than intelligence which could cause a disparate racial impact to be related to race? And then....saying that theres nothing other than intelligence or US based?

Yeah. Your projecting a little bit, bitch.

 

[DiveCon]

Way to take the facts of an analogy and treat them as if they are true in this case. An analogy means the reasoning is similar, not the facts per se.

you attempted to use the same anaolgy to prove the opposite

I used the reasoning of the analogy, not the facts, dumbass.

you did the exact same thing she did
moron

 

[WillowTree]

so in conclusion, we must write one test for black people and another for white people,, is that the deal?? or do we do "show and tell:?

 

[KittenKoder]

I used the reasoning of the analogy, not the facts, dumbass.

What's really happening is that every time someone shows your position is wrong you move to another one, moving the goal posts as I call it frequently ... so then we shoot there and hit, then you change again. You are a rabbit that has already been shot but doesn't realize you should be laying down now.

Maybe like saying there is nothing other than intelligence which could cause a disparate racial impact to be related to race? And then....saying that theres nothing other than intelligence or US based?

Yeah. Your projecting a little bit, bitch.

Really? No, I didn't change my reasons, sorry, thanks for showing your foolishness though, I merely shot at the new goalpost you made as well as kept my aim at the old one ... no projection, I have not ditched my first answer, just added another possibility to cover your new goal. Both of which are very valid and show that tests are not racist.