Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[JamesInFlorida]

I'm sure many teachers got off-but as I said school was in session yesterday here.

And I don't think teacher's jobs are as great as what you're saying-there's TONS of openings here (especially in English and Science classes). If being a teacher was so appealing-there wouldn't be a lot openings.

And you haven't really addressed (at least in the posts I've seen-I haven't read the whole thread), the fact that teachers have papers/tests to grade, lessons plans to make, many work more than 8 hours a day at the schools, and so on.

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

I've worked in a warehouse here in Florida (including summers), with no AC-I had to keep the doors open of the warehouse to cool down the warehouse. In there from 7am-5pm. Lifitng heavy boxes/equipment all day long, with just 1 30 min break for lunch. All for barely above minimum wage-never complained one time.

Having just gotten my license to teach here, and knowing many teachers-I'm telling you teachers do more than just when they're at school. They do so much more-and to ignore that, doesn't make it go away. I'm not complaining about going to be a teacher-I'm just saying it's not a rosey as what you and others in this thread seem to think.

I'm sure you've worked hard in the past-but you're not the only person. I know very well what hard work is.

 

[chanel]

My OT consists of worrying about kids who are depressed/suicidal/pregnant/hungry or have a bullet lodged in their skull. But I'm sure everyone brings that stuff home too.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

I've worked in a warehouse here in Florida (including summers), with no AC-I had to keep the doors open of the warehouse to cool down the warehouse. In there from 7am-5pm. Lifitng heavy boxes/equipment all day long, with just 1 30 min break for lunch. All for barely above minimum wage-never complained one time.

Having just gotten my license to teach here, and knowing many teachers-I'm telling you teachers do more than just when they're at school. They do so much more-and to ignore that, doesn't make it go away. I'm not complaining about going to be a teacher-I'm just saying it's not a rosey as what you and others in this thread seem to think.

I'm sure you've worked hard in the past-but you're not the only person. I know very well what hard work is.

You should probably read posts more thoroughly before replying. Teachers do have a tough job but so do most other American Workers. But most other American Workers don't enjoy All Weekends Off,Several Weeks of paid Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off. So it is acknowledged that Teachers do have a tough job but they also enjoy benefits no other American Workers enjoy. It would be nice if more Teachers would acknowledge they don't have it so bad once and awhile. All we seem to hear from them is whining & complaining. Teachers need a reality-check. They need to look around this nation and see how most American Workers work to survive. They just need perspective because clearly they lost that a long time ago. Time for less complaining and more teaching. Get back to work. The kids need you.

 

[bodecea]

My OT consists of worrying about kids who are depressed/suicidal/pregnant/hungry or have a bullet lodged in their skull. But I'm sure everyone brings that stuff home too.

Sad to say...those kids you worry about may very well be the product of such people who denigrate teachers the most around here and elsewhere.

 

[Wicked Jester]

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

I've worked in a warehouse here in Florida (including summers), with no AC-I had to keep the doors open of the warehouse to cool down the warehouse. In there from 7am-5pm. Lifitng heavy boxes/equipment all day long, with just 1 30 min break for lunch. All for barely above minimum wage-never complained one time.

Having just gotten my license to teach here, and knowing many teachers-I'm telling you teachers do more than just when they're at school. They do so much more-and to ignore that, doesn't make it go away. I'm not complaining about going to be a teacher-I'm just saying it's not a rosey as what you and others in this thread seem to think.

I'm sure you've worked hard in the past-but you're not the only person. I know very well what hard work is.

The whole point of it all is, these teachers and their unions are acting like they've got it so rough over everbody else. Like they shouldn't have to sacrifice like everybody else is having to do these days. They're not special......I'm not saying they don't work hard,because they do. They also enjoy top notch benefits and pensions on top of good pay. And yes, time off that most people in the private sector would love to have.

Ya see, that's what cracks me up about their supporters. They immediately go to the, "oh my god they're attacking teachers. THEY DON'T RESPECT THE TEACHERS! Oh my god they're such evil people. HOW DARE THEY EXPECT THE ALL HOLY TEACHERS TO MAKE SACRIFICES".........It's just so predictable. And a tried and true tactic of liberals who think they're somehow special.

 

[chanel]

How many teachers do you speak to? I work with a 1OO and the only thing they complain about is discipline. So would any normal person in the same position. I think you are making stuff up to further demonize the teachers. Shame on you.

 

[Wicked Jester]

My OT consists of worrying about kids who are depressed/suicidal/pregnant/hungry or have a bullet lodged in their skull. But I'm sure everyone brings that stuff home too.

Sad to say...those kids you worry about may very well be the product of such people who denigrate teachers the most around here and elsewhere.

Seriously, just shut up already.....You're such a far left liberal whackjob it's laughable.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

I've worked in a warehouse here in Florida (including summers), with no AC-I had to keep the doors open of the warehouse to cool down the warehouse. In there from 7am-5pm. Lifitng heavy boxes/equipment all day long, with just 1 30 min break for lunch. All for barely above minimum wage-never complained one time.

Having just gotten my license to teach here, and knowing many teachers-I'm telling you teachers do more than just when they're at school. They do so much more-and to ignore that, doesn't make it go away. I'm not complaining about going to be a teacher-I'm just saying it's not a rosey as what you and others in this thread seem to think.

I'm sure you've worked hard in the past-but you're not the only person. I know very well what hard work is.

You should probably read posts more thoroughly before replying. Teachers do have a tough job but so do most other American Workers. But most other American Workers don't enjoy All Weekends Off,Several Weeks of paid Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off. So it is acknowledged that Teachers do have a tough job but they also enjoy benefits no other American Workers enjoy. It would be nice if more Teachers would acknowledge they don't have it so bad once and awhile. All we seem to hear from them is whining & complaining. Teachers need a reality-check. They need to look around this nation and see how most American Workers work to survive. They just need perspective because clearly they lost that a long time ago. Time for less complaining and more teaching. Get back to work. The kids need you.

The average college graduate makes more money than teachers-that's a nice benefit they have over teachers is it not?

Why don't politicians start with themselves? They get paid vacations, tons of time off-way more than the average American, weekends off, and get paid much more.

When you take away benefits of being a teacher away-you're going to get worse and worse people in teaching positions. And regardless of what many say-education is still the best way to get ahead in this country. Don't believe me-look at what kind of education of the presidents in the past 50-60 years, CEOs around the nation, highest paying jobs-the overwhelming majority of them got a good education. It's not overrated by them.

Hell even Ron Paul (who believe it or not I'm a fan of), went to public school growing up, and eventually went to Duke (private in all fairness) and got his M.D. Do you honestly think he would be where he is today without getting a good education? No way.

My point is the most influential, and successful people (monetarily) have good educations-where teachers are a vital asset to. The more you take away from teachers-the more good teachers leave (and more importantly would be good teachers never become one), and the worse our education system gets.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

I've worked in a warehouse here in Florida (including summers), with no AC-I had to keep the doors open of the warehouse to cool down the warehouse. In there from 7am-5pm. Lifitng heavy boxes/equipment all day long, with just 1 30 min break for lunch. All for barely above minimum wage-never complained one time.

Having just gotten my license to teach here, and knowing many teachers-I'm telling you teachers do more than just when they're at school. They do so much more-and to ignore that, doesn't make it go away. I'm not complaining about going to be a teacher-I'm just saying it's not a rosey as what you and others in this thread seem to think.

I'm sure you've worked hard in the past-but you're not the only person. I know very well what hard work is.

The whole point of it all is, these teachers and their unions are acting like they've got it so rough over everbody else. Like they shouldn't have to sacrifice like everybody else is having to do these days. They're not special......I'm not saying they don't work hard,because they do. They also enjoy top notch benefits and pensions on top of good pay. And yes, time off that most people in the private sector would love to have.

Ya see, that's what cracks me up about their supporters. They immediately go to the, "oh my god they're attacking teachers. THEY DON'T RESPECT THE TEACHERS! Oh my god they're such evil people. HOW DARE THEY EXPECT THE ALL HOLY TEACHERS TO MAKE SACRIFICES".........It's just so predictable. And a tried and true tactic of liberals who think they're somehow special.

I agree with what you're saying-but here's the problem. Teachers have great influence on our country as a whole, and are a BIG instrument in shaping up our future. Our education system is what drives this country forward, and as a society as whole-by educating the citizens. The private sector doesn't do this (and shouldn't have to btw). That's the difference.

You can't compare the work and importance that teachers have on this country and society as a whole to the average American worker.

edit: and there are plenty of other areas to cut before teacher salaries-I think that's what the big deal is.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Teachers need to escape their bubbles of non-reality. They need to gain perspective. They need to get out and see how most American Workers have it in the real world. I do blame the greedy Teacher Unions for teachers losing their perspective. Everyone in America would like to make more money. Teachers aren't unique in that desire. But they do enjoy some pretty nice benefits and it would be nice to see more of them acknowledging this once and awhile. All we ever see is teachers whining & bitchin about how awful they have it. Well guess what? Many other American Workers actually have it much worse. Seriously,it's true.

So the next time you Teachers are kicking back enjoying your several weeks off for the Thanksgiving,Christmas,and New Year Holidays,just remember that most other American Workers are still at work busting their asses. In fact most are just very grateful if they can get a Thanksgiving,Christmas,or New Years Day off. Many have to work those days. Are their families any less important than yours? Don't you think they would like to be with their families for the Holidays? Teachers just need to escape their bubbles of non-reality. They're behaving like spoiled brats. More people lose respect for them every time they hear them complain. Maybe they should change their approach and outlook on things. Do they really have it so bad?

 

[Foxfyre]

I've worked in a warehouse here in Florida (including summers), with no AC-I had to keep the doors open of the warehouse to cool down the warehouse. In there from 7am-5pm. Lifitng heavy boxes/equipment all day long, with just 1 30 min break for lunch. All for barely above minimum wage-never complained one time.

Having just gotten my license to teach here, and knowing many teachers-I'm telling you teachers do more than just when they're at school. They do so much more-and to ignore that, doesn't make it go away. I'm not complaining about going to be a teacher-I'm just saying it's not a rosey as what you and others in this thread seem to think.

I'm sure you've worked hard in the past-but you're not the only person. I know very well what hard work is.

You should probably read posts more thoroughly before replying. Teachers do have a tough job but so do most other American Workers. But most other American Workers don't enjoy All Weekends Off,Several Weeks of paid Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off. So it is acknowledged that Teachers do have a tough job but they also enjoy benefits no other American Workers enjoy. It would be nice if more Teachers would acknowledge they don't have it so bad once and awhile. All we seem to hear from them is whining & complaining. Teachers need a reality-check. They need to look around this nation and see how most American Workers work to survive. They just need perspective because clearly they lost that a long time ago. Time for less complaining and more teaching. Get back to work. The kids need you.

The average college graduate makes more money than teachers-that's a nice benefit they have over teachers is it not?

Why don't politicians start with themselves? They get paid vacations, tons of time off-way more than the average American, weekends off, and get paid much more.

When you take away benefits of being a teacher away-you're going to get worse and worse people in teaching positions. And regardless of what many say-education is still the best way to get ahead in this country. Don't believe me-look at what kind of education of the presidents in the past 50-60 years, CEOs around the nation, highest paying jobs-the overwhelming majority of them got a good education. It's not overrated by them.

Hell even Ron Paul (who believe it or not I'm a fan of), went to public school growing up, and eventually went to Duke (private in all fairness) and got his M.D. Do you honestly think he would be where he is today without getting a good education? No way.

My point is the most influential, and successful people (monetarily) have good educations-where teachers are a vital asset to. The more you take away from teachers-the more good teachers leave (and more importantly would be good teachers never become one), and the worse our education system gets.

I know quite a few folks who went into teaching so that they could be home with their kids over the summer, winter break, spring break etc. or have big blocks of time to travel or engage in other activities. How many of us can get a deal like that in other professions?

I don't begrudge teacher a decent living wage or the other benefits, but I do resent it when teachers adopt a sense of entitlement that they somehow deserve more than other essential occupations deserve and the taxpayer should come up with whatever they want.

That is not bashing teachers. That is making an argument for the need to negotiate reasonable contracts no matter what profession a person adopts. If the employer cannot pay more, then you accept what you can get or you find another position where the employer can pay more. Or go into business for yourself.

That's how the free market system is supposed to work. And did until the unions decided market rules didn't apply in their case.

So, your point would be well taken if the kids were getting better educations with the rise of the unions negotiating better and better compensation packages including benefits and pension plans a lot of us would die for. They aren't. The USA has fallen way behind almost all other industrialized countries in the quality and content of the education the kids are getting.

It's time to come up with a better system even if that better system is going back to the way we once did education and the USA was a shining star in the quality and content of the education the kids got.

 

[chanel]

You are being dishonest. No one complains about vacation and benefits. Few complain about the workload. But they do complain about the lack of respect. For years, it's been from the students. For weeks, it's coming from the adults. I shudder to think how this will further empower the kids to tell their teachers to "go fuck" themselves. Not looking forward to it fer sure.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

You are being dishonest. No one complains about vacation and benefits. Few complain about the workload. But they do complain about the lack of respect. For years, it's been from the students. For weeks, it's coming from the adults. I shudder to think how this will further empower the kids to tell their teachers to "go fuck" themselves. Not looking forward to it fer sure.

Why would they complain about vacation benefits? I didn't think they would. They it got pretty good there. They could acknowledge how great those benefits are once and awhile though. The problem for Teachers is that all they're known for now is their constant whining & complaining. They rarely discuss the positives of their job. I have laid out several fantastic positives of their job. If Teachers want to ignore that than so be it. I'll just say one more time,most American Workers have it much worse out there in the real word. Teachers need a new approach and perspective. The corrupt Teacher Unions have indoctrinated them with all this negativity and sense of entitlement. They should get out into the real world and gain a more realistic perspective on things. That might just help them quite a bit in their jobs. It's all about perspective in the end.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I've worked in a warehouse here in Florida (including summers), with no AC-I had to keep the doors open of the warehouse to cool down the warehouse. In there from 7am-5pm. Lifitng heavy boxes/equipment all day long, with just 1 30 min break for lunch. All for barely above minimum wage-never complained one time.

Having just gotten my license to teach here, and knowing many teachers-I'm telling you teachers do more than just when they're at school. They do so much more-and to ignore that, doesn't make it go away. I'm not complaining about going to be a teacher-I'm just saying it's not a rosey as what you and others in this thread seem to think.

I'm sure you've worked hard in the past-but you're not the only person. I know very well what hard work is.

The whole point of it all is, these teachers and their unions are acting like they've got it so rough over everbody else. Like they shouldn't have to sacrifice like everybody else is having to do these days. They're not special......I'm not saying they don't work hard,because they do. They also enjoy top notch benefits and pensions on top of good pay. And yes, time off that most people in the private sector would love to have.

Ya see, that's what cracks me up about their supporters. They immediately go to the, "oh my god they're attacking teachers. THEY DON'T RESPECT THE TEACHERS! Oh my god they're such evil people. HOW DARE THEY EXPECT THE ALL HOLY TEACHERS TO MAKE SACRIFICES".........It's just so predictable. And a tried and true tactic of liberals who think they're somehow special.

I agree with what you're saying-but here's the problem. Teachers have great influence on our country as a whole, and are a BIG instrument in shaping up our future. Our education system is what drives this country forward, and as a society as whole-by educating the citizens. The private sector doesn't do this (and shouldn't have to btw). That's the difference.

You can't compare the work and importance that teachers have on this country and society as a whole to the average American worker.

edit: and there are plenty of other areas to cut before teacher salaries-I think that's what the big deal is.

I've never said that teachers aren't an integral part in shaping our country. I'm saying that they too must voluntarily bite the bullet just like everybody else.

I have a real problem with:

1) Those teachers abandonong their classrooms and students, thereby denying those students their given RIGHT to an education. It throws their ridiculous claim that they are "doing it for the children" bs right out the proverbial window.....They want to protest, fine. They can protest on their own damn time, just like the police and firefighters have to do......I believe that there is a law on the books that prohibits the teachers from abandoning the classrooms that is in line with laws regarding public safety officers.

2) Causing undo hardship, particularly financially, to parents who have to rearrange their schedules to include taking time off work at a LOSS OF PAY to ensure their children are being taken care of and not out running amok, and are safe.......Imagine what that loss of pay does to a one income single parent or family who is already struggling to make ends meet as it is. Are those teachers concerned about that?.....Obviously not.

3) These teachers accepting fraudulent doctors notes to ensure THEY GET PAID. That's a friggin' crime. And charges should be brought against all who engaged in said crime. To include those dirtbag doctors who were handing out those notes.

Those teachers who did any of the above deserve no respect. They deserve the maximum discipline. It has nothing to do with their teaching abilities. Good teacher or not, what they are doing is abjectly wrong on so many levels......And the ones who are negatively affected by it are the students and their parents.......It's just WRONG!

Those teachers who did not abandon their classrooms, and elected to protest on their own time or let the union handle it, are the ones who most definitely deserve to be praised.....They are obvioulsy in it for the love of their profession and the children. They obviously understand what it's all about......And I guarantee, it's those types of teachers who are the biggest benefit to this countries children and future.

 

[Foxfyre]

You are being dishonest. No one complains about vacation and benefits. Few complain about the workload. But they do complain about the lack of respect. For years, it's been from the students. For weeks, it's coming from the adults. I shudder to think how this will further empower the kids to tell their teachers to "go fuck" themselves. Not looking forward to it fer sure.

This is precisely why many teachers will accept less compensation and fewer benefits to teach in a private school where a different kind of discipline is enforced and teachers do command and get respect. Not because they're teachers. But because they are good teachers, dressing and behaving professionally, and teaching real subject matter effectively and the kids are expected to learn what the teacher teaches.

There are a few educators in public school systems who understand such concepts. Sadly, there are far too many school systems out there in which they don't.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

It really is all about perspective in the end. Most Teachers just don't have a proper perspective anymore. The corrupt Teacher Unions have created this cocoon of non-reality for Teachers. They really don't have any clue how good they have it or how tough things really are for most other American Workers. They've been told for years that they have it so terrible and that no one cares about them. That's just a corrupt Union ploy though. They don't want their members to stop and realize how good they have it. They have to keep them victims who will always have that sense of entitlement.

You try and point out all the great aspects of their jobs and they quickly brush it aside and begin complaining about how awful everything is. This is a common behavioral trait for most Teachers. And that's why so many people no longer have any sympathy for them. They see all the Weekends off,Several Weeks of paid Holiday time off,and entire Summers off. They then look at their own job and can't understand what all the endless whining is about. Teachers need to bust out of their non-reality cocoons and get some real perspective on things. I think this would really help them. Just stop with all the negativity and entitlement stuff. People have had enough.

 

[chanel]

Victims? Now you are really grasping at straws. Here's a reality check. I am a member of the NJEA - a somewhat reluctant one because our dues are outrageous. But consider this contract negotiations 101. Every 3 years, teacher volunteers renegotiate our contracts. The Bd of Ed holds the purse strings - the teachers are the beggars. Even during good times (remember the Bush years) the standard line is "bare bones budget" They ask for concessions, we ask for raises. Then they meet in the middle and shake hands. Without the other party (union) concessions will be forced, year after year with no mediator to stop it. That's why everyone is nervous. This is only the beginning.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Victims? Now you are really grasping at straws. Here's a reality check. I am a member of the NJEA - a somewhat reluctant one because our dues are outrageous. But consider this contract negotiations 101. Every 3 years, teacher volunteers renegotiate our contracts. The Bd of Ed holds the purse strings - the teachers are the beggars. Even during good times (remember the Bush years) the standard line is "bare bones budget" They ask for concessions, we ask for raises. Then they meet in the middle and shake hands. Without the other party (union) concessions will be forced, year after year with no mediator to stop it. That's why everyone is nervous. This is only the beginning.

Well there you go. We try and point out the fantastic positives of your job and you quickly brush it aside and head into Victim-Mode. That really is a common behavioral trait with most Teachers. And that's why more & more people no longer have sympathy for them. I don't blame you though. I blame the corrupt Teacher Unions for creating your bitterness and sense of entitlement. You really don't have it so bad though. Try talking about the positives in your job once and awhile. God knows we've tried to.

 

[chanel]

Victim mode? Just stating the facts sir. WI is only the beginning OH is next.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Victim mode? Just stating the facts sir. WI is only the beginning OH is next.

No offense but continuing this discussion with you is pointless. The Teacher Union has created your bitterness and sense of entitlement. So your mind will never be changed. You are permanently stuck in Victim-Mode. Most Teachers are unfortunately. That's why they continue to lose the support of the People. Average American Workers see all the wonderful perks Teachers enjoy and just don't get all the constant whining. Teachers do have a tough job but so do most others. Teachers seem to do the most complaining though. I don't think i've ever come across a Teacher who actually talked about the positives in their job. It's always negative whining. It's their mindset. But hey,i enjoyed conversing with you. We're just not gonna get anywhere. You'll always be a victim and there's nothing i can do to change your mind on that. Thanks for your replies.