Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[Wicked Jester]

I wish they'd walk off the job too, and see what it's like to actually have to produce results to get paid.

Our approach to education in the US makes no sense.

Very little that is run by gubmint does makes sense...Your point is?

We acknowledge that without real improvements in education, the US will slip further and further behind other countries. But instead of looking for ways to bring better teachers into the field and retain them, we look for ways to discourage them by cutting benefits, freezing pay, and cutting positions.

Who is "we"?...You got a turd in your pocket?

In China a teacher is generally regarded as the most important member of the community. I saw a study a few years ago in which people in several US communities were asked to list the most important jobs in their community. The most important job in most communities turned out to be the garbage collector followed closely by policemen and firemen. Teachers generally fell somewhere between street cleaners and domestic help. As you might expect some communities pay teachers less than garbage collectors. They may have crappy teachers but they probably have great garbage service.

In some communities garbage collectors have to actually compete with others for their business....Can't say the same for teachers in gubmint schools.

As to your last point, that is exactly why I our school system should be run by the private sector.

Christ, government can't run Thomas The Train (AMTRAK), and we're supposed to continue to believe they'll magically turn around the school system?

 

[Flopper]

Most people respect Teachers. They just don't respect the greedy political activist Teacher Unions. Personally,i do respect Teachers but i also think they complain too much. They receive some pretty nice benefits compared to many other professions in this country. Try working 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. For example,most American Workers didn't have a paid day off today for President's Day. Most had to show up for work today. Many American Workers have it rough but none whine more than Teachers. They should stop all the complaining and focus more on helping the kids. If you're in it to get rich,then get the Hell out and go find another line of work. No one likes a whiner. It is what it is.

I think it's hard to compare teaching with most jobs. Teaching does have some nice perks, like additional holidays and better than average retirement but there's lot of responsibility. In households where both parents work, which are most households, many kids spend more time with their teacher than than they do their parents. In essence, teachers are becoming substitute parents in addition to teaching.

Getting rid of teacher unions does not fix the problem. Higher salaries, an improved work environment, higher standards, better training, and opportunities for advance are a good start.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Most people respect Teachers. They just don't respect the greedy political activist Teacher Unions. Personally,i do respect Teachers but i also think they complain too much. They receive some pretty nice benefits compared to many other professions in this country. Try working 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. For example,most American Workers didn't have a paid day off today for President's Day. Most had to show up for work today. Many American Workers have it rough but none whine more than Teachers. They should stop all the complaining and focus more on helping the kids. If you're in it to get rich,then get the Hell out and go find another line of work. No one likes a whiner. It is what it is.

I think it's hard to compare teaching with most jobs. Teaching does have some nice perks, like additional holidays and better than average retirement but there's lot of responsibility. In households where both parents work, which are most households, many kids spend more time with their teacher than than they do their parents. In essence, teachers are becoming substitute parents in addition to teaching.

Getting rid of teacher unions does not fix the problem. Higher salaries, an improved work environment, higher standards, better training, and opportunities for advance are a good start.

Fine, lets privatize the system, and go with a performance based pay scale. You can have your union, they just don't bargain for pay. No more collective bargaining.

How's that for starters?

And while we're at it, lets install cameras in every damn classroom in the country, where parents can log in and see and hear exactly what's going on in their childrens classrooms.

My wife and I have that ability through our chidrens private school. It's a great thing.

 

[chanel]

Schools in NJ aren't even permitted to take yearbook photos without express written permission. It would never happen. Next...

 

[Wicked Jester]

Schools in NJ aren't even permitted to take yearbook photos without express written permission. It would never happen. Next...

It could definitely happen, and should happen.

Teachers will know they are being watched. Students will know they are being watched. Gone will be the days of teachers ramming their political bends down the students throats. No more, "MMM MMM MMM, Barack Hussein Obama". No more "Brokeback Mountain" being shown to 13 year olds as happened in a PUBLIC SCHOOL just last month. The teachers will have to teach their subjects. The teachers will know they damn sure better perform as expected. The teachers will be protected from false accusations of misconduct by students and parents. Students will know that if they act up, it's all right there to be seen. Students will know that they better tow the line. Parents will know exactly how their children are being tought. Parents will know if teachers are behaving in a proper manner with their children. They will know their children are in class where they belong. They will know what homework is assigned. They will know if their children are struggling. The school boards will see exactly how their teachers are performong in real time. The school boards will be able to identify problem students and those who are struggling in real time, thereby giving them the ability to immediately to rectify, etc. etc.........Next.....

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Teachers even had a paid day off today for President's Day. I got news for you,most other American Workers had to show up for work today. So spare me all your whining Teachers. You got it pretty damn good. Now get back to work. The Kids need you.

Not teachers in my county.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Teachers even had a paid day off today for President's Day. I got news for you,most other American Workers had to show up for work today. So spare me all your whining Teachers. You got it pretty damn good. Now get back to work. The Kids need you.

Not teachers in my county.

Teachers had a paid day off in my area. Most other American Workers had to show up for work on President's Day.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Teachers even had a paid day off today for President's Day. I got news for you,most other American Workers had to show up for work today. So spare me all your whining Teachers. You got it pretty damn good. Now get back to work. The Kids need you.

Not teachers in my county.

Teachers had a paid day off in my area. Most other American Workers had to show up for work on President's Day.

I'm sure many teachers got off-but as I said school was in session yesterday here.

And I don't think teacher's jobs are as great as what you're saying-there's TONS of openings here (especially in English and Science classes). If being a teacher was so appealing-there wouldn't be a lot openings.

And you haven't really addressed (at least in the posts I've seen-I haven't read the whole thread), the fact that teachers have papers/tests to grade, lessons plans to make, many work more than 8 hours a day at the schools, and so on.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Not teachers in my county.

Teachers had a paid day off in my area. Most other American Workers had to show up for work on President's Day.

I'm sure many teachers got off-but as I said school was in session yesterday here.

And I don't think teacher's jobs are as great as what you're saying-there's TONS of openings here (especially in English and Science classes). If being a teacher was so appealing-there wouldn't be a lot openings.

And you haven't really addressed (at least in the posts I've seen-I haven't read the whole thread), the fact that teachers have papers/tests to grade, lessons plans to make, many work more than 8 hours a day at the schools, and so on.

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Teachers had a paid day off in my area. Most other American Workers had to show up for work on President's Day.

I'm sure many teachers got off-but as I said school was in session yesterday here.

And I don't think teacher's jobs are as great as what you're saying-there's TONS of openings here (especially in English and Science classes). If being a teacher was so appealing-there wouldn't be a lot openings.

And you haven't really addressed (at least in the posts I've seen-I haven't read the whole thread), the fact that teachers have papers/tests to grade, lessons plans to make, many work more than 8 hours a day at the schools, and so on.

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

 

[Foxfyre]

In defense of teachers, their day usually isn't just the five or six hours they teach in a classroom. Most usually do have study hall supervision, hall monitor duty, and there are lesson plans to lay out, tests and papers to grade, etc. all outside those five or six hours. Even when you substitute teach, coming up with a decent lesson plan takes one to two hours for each subject or age group you teach.

But that means a teacher spends about the same amount of time in a work day as most of us spend. AND, unless he or she volunteers to supervise extra curricular activities, as many of us parents do, the teacher still has all weekends off plus numerous scheduled holidays and periods of break in the work year and most summers off. Even if he or she has to take a course during the summer to keep certification current, that generally does not take all summer or every day or more than a few hours a day to do.

So let's don't pretend a teacher's job is less mportant or less difficult than it is. A good teacher DOES earn his/her pay.

And let's also don't pretend that a teacher's job is worse than it is so far as the responsibilities and compensation involved.

 

[bodecea]

Teachers even had a paid day off today for President's Day. I got news for you,most other American Workers had to show up for work today. So spare me all your whining Teachers. You got it pretty damn good. Now get back to work. The Kids need you.

Not teachers in my county.

Teachers had a paid day off in my area. Most other American Workers had to show up for work on President's Day.

The students had time off....and the post office, and all government offices and the banks around here had the day off....


But....let's point fingers at the teachers and blame their union....kkay?

 

[HUGGY]

I'm sure many teachers got off-but as I said school was in session yesterday here.

And I don't think teacher's jobs are as great as what you're saying-there's TONS of openings here (especially in English and Science classes). If being a teacher was so appealing-there wouldn't be a lot openings.

And you haven't really addressed (at least in the posts I've seen-I haven't read the whole thread), the fact that teachers have papers/tests to grade, lessons plans to make, many work more than 8 hours a day at the schools, and so on.

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

You didn't work all those long hours and days to be a chef. You did it so you could save enough money to start your own restaurant. How many teachers get to start their own public school? Some "professions" don't have a pot of gold for the self made man at the end of the rainbow. The guys that repair the downed electric lines get great money and benefits also. They are all in unions. They also will not be starting their own power grid. That is why the unions fight for upfront guarantees. You whiners that don't like the contracts that get signed by municipalities have a chance to weigh in THEN. Now is not the time. Honor the contracts and pay the fucking money!

 

[saveliberty]

Wisconsin seems to be dropping the hammer on teachers as of Friday. The unemployment line will be longer.

 

[Foxfyre]

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

You didn't work all those long hours and days to be a chef. You did it so you could save enough money to start your own restaurant. How many teachers get to start their own public school? Some "professions" don't have a pot of gold for the self made man at the end of the rainbow. The guys that repair the downed electric lines get great money and benefits also. They are all in unions. They also will not be starting their own power grid. That is why the unions fight for upfront guarantees. You whiners that don't like the contracts that get signed by municipalities have a chance to weigh in THEN. Now is not the time. Honor the contracts and pay the fucking money!

How many people who work in restaurants start their own restaurant? And how many of those who do actually succeed in that? Only the ones with great talent, great instincts, great business savvy and the drive to put in the long grueling hours actually succeed at that.

And most teachers don't want the real stress and grueling effort and sacrifice it requires to successfully start and run their own school.

Nevertheless, I have three friends who successfully started and are running their own private schools. All are faith based but take students of all faiths or no faith. I have several other friends who intentionally accept lesser compensation and benefits to teach in private schools because of the much more pleasant and less stressful environment and the excellence required of all the staff.

And then there are all the ones who are devoting time, sometimes donated, sometimes for pay, to tutor public or private schooled kids or homeschooled kids and think that is the best avocation in the world. I do a bit of that myself and it IS one of the best avocations in the world.

A good teacher teaches because he or she is called to teach and loves to teach. Those in it for the money, benefits, or time off are most likely the ones protesting--rioting in Wisconsin. And I notice this morning that other union people from all over are joining them this week.

 

[Wicked Jester]

What other professions have all Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Paid Holiday Time Off,and Summers Off? I never said Teaching was an easy job. Not many jobs are. I'm just saying they do have it pretty good. As far as professions go,they are easily the biggest whiners in the country. Most people have tough jobs. Teachers aren't the only ones who have tough jobs. Their benefits are fantastic and most other American Workers can only dream about such benefits. Try working those 6-Day Work-Weeks and Holidays. Then get back to me on how awful Teachers have it. Time for Teachers to do less complaining and do more Teaching.

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

You didn't work all those long hours and days to be a chef. You did it so you could save enough money to start your own restaurant. How many teachers get to start their own public school? Some "professions" don't have a pot of gold for the self made man at the end of the rainbow. The guys that repair the downed electric lines get great money and benefits also. They are all in unions. They also will not be starting their own power grid. That is why the unions fight for upfront guarantees. You whiners that don't like the contracts that get signed by municipalities have a chance to weigh in THEN. Now is not the time. Honor the contracts and pay the fucking money!

Project much there, Huggy?

I didn't get into it with visions of someday opening my own place. I got into it because it was my passion. My vision was to become an eventual executive chef making good money. Owning my own place never really came to mind until after I made executive chef and a golden opportunity dropped in my lap. The wife and I discussed it, Decided that it was worth the major stress and headache of owning our own high end establishment and went for it.

 

[HUGGY]

No shit......Try working twelve hours a day, busting ass 6 days a week, Xmas day, thanksigiving day, Easter Sunday, for shit pay and no benefits as I did as a line cook trying to make my bones and become a legitimate chef.......Yeah, those teachers sure have it rough alright.

I never bitched about it. I knew it came with the territory. Knew that, that is what it takes to get where I wanted to be. And I got there, quite successfully.

You didn't work all those long hours and days to be a chef. You did it so you could save enough money to start your own restaurant. How many teachers get to start their own public school? Some "professions" don't have a pot of gold for the self made man at the end of the rainbow. The guys that repair the downed electric lines get great money and benefits also. They are all in unions. They also will not be starting their own power grid. That is why the unions fight for upfront guarantees. You whiners that don't like the contracts that get signed by municipalities have a chance to weigh in THEN. Now is not the time. Honor the contracts and pay the fucking money!

Project much there, Huggy?

I didn't get into it with visions of someday opening my own place. I got into it because it was my passion. My vision was to become an eventual executive making good money. Owning my own place never really came to mind until after I made executive chef and a golden opportunity dropped in my lap. The wife and I discussed it, Decided that it was worth the major stress and headache of owning our own high end establishment and went for it.

My point is and was that now is not the time to bitch about union contracts. The time is when they are being negotiated. They must be honored.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Not teachers in my county.

Teachers had a paid day off in my area. Most other American Workers had to show up for work on President's Day.

The students had time off....and the post office, and all government offices and the banks around here had the day off....


But....let's point fingers at the teachers and blame their union....kkay?

Students had time off but their parents likely did not. Most American Workers had to show up on President's Day. That's all i'm pointing out. Teachers enjoy very nice benefits. Teachers do have a tough job but so do most other American Workers. None complain nearly as much as Teachers though.

 

[Foxfyre]

You didn't work all those long hours and days to be a chef. You did it so you could save enough money to start your own restaurant. How many teachers get to start their own public school? Some "professions" don't have a pot of gold for the self made man at the end of the rainbow. The guys that repair the downed electric lines get great money and benefits also. They are all in unions. They also will not be starting their own power grid. That is why the unions fight for upfront guarantees. You whiners that don't like the contracts that get signed by municipalities have a chance to weigh in THEN. Now is not the time. Honor the contracts and pay the fucking money!

Project much there, Huggy?

I didn't get into it with visions of someday opening my own place. I got into it because it was my passion. My vision was to become an eventual executive making good money. Owning my own place never really came to mind until after I made executive chef and a golden opportunity dropped in my lap. The wife and I discussed it, Decided that it was worth the major stress and headache of owning our own high end establishment and went for it.

My point is and was that now is not the time to bitch about union contracts. The time is when they are being negotiated. They must be honored.

As previously posted, they were negotiated by those who knew they wouldn't be around to suffer the consequences of the negotiations. Just as the federal government is doing now, they were promising people the sun, moon, and stars with the bills pushed on down the road for somebody else to deal with.

Well the time has come to pay that piper in Wisconsin. The government is strapped for cash and they have a governor who isn't willing to solve the problem by pushing it on down the road to somebody else. They're at the end of their rope. When there is no more money to honor the contract and no legal option to declare bankruptcy, it is time for the union to be willing to negotiate or else suffer massive layoffs and denial of essential services to many people.

Years ago, Mr. Foxfyre was a branch manager when the company announced a most attractive bonus for those managers who could achieve a specific goal. We were young parents and struggling to make ends meet and this was an amazing windfall for us and we could just taste how sweet it was going to be. Mr. Foxfyre achieved the goal. Unfortunately, so did most of the other managers. The company was not expecting that and found that it could not pay all those bonuses and still meet the payroll and other essential costs. So it sent out a memo that the bonus would not be paid.

Bitterly disappointed and frustrated? Of course we were. But we still had a job paying a living wage and that was better than getting that bonus.

If Wisconsin has no money to pay the contracts, then the contracts need to be renegotiated. And since the unions refuse to be practical and sensible about that, the unions need to be busted and everybody start over.

 

[Wicked Jester]

You didn't work all those long hours and days to be a chef. You did it so you could save enough money to start your own restaurant. How many teachers get to start their own public school? Some "professions" don't have a pot of gold for the self made man at the end of the rainbow. The guys that repair the downed electric lines get great money and benefits also. They are all in unions. They also will not be starting their own power grid. That is why the unions fight for upfront guarantees. You whiners that don't like the contracts that get signed by municipalities have a chance to weigh in THEN. Now is not the time. Honor the contracts and pay the fucking money!

Project much there, Huggy?

I didn't get into it with visions of someday opening my own place. I got into it because it was my passion. My vision was to become an eventual executive chef making good money. Owning my own place never really came to mind until after I made executive chef and a golden opportunity dropped in my lap. The wife and I discussed it, Decided that it was worth the major stress and headache of owning our own high end establishment and went for it.

My point is and was that now is not the time to bitch about union contracts. The time is when they are being negotiated. They must be honored.

When a state goes broke, in part due to unsusatinable union contracts, sacrifices have to be made.......That's the way it works in the private sector, and the public sector has to work that way too.

I'll give you a good example. My aunt and uncle own a machine shop in Chicago. 15 employees who have been there for many years. They pay them well and offer good benefits. The economy is crushing them. And the recent tax that was placed on them by the state was like a hammer being slammed on their heads. Before the tax, to avoid layoffs, they decided to go to a 4 day work week to help cut costs. After the tax, they are now down to a three day work week in a desperate attempt to keep their employees at least getting some kind of pay, and to continue offering them benefits. Those employees have a choice, either go along with the very necessary cut in hours and still keeping their benefits, or beat feet.

Public sector employees, too include teachers, are no better than anybody else. Either they go with what's proposed or be laid off. It's as simple as that.