Just a clump of cells

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I'm going to be flatly blunt. The pro-Abortion crowd is dead wrong about human biology. A human is a human inside the womb and out. This video is proof of such. This is the unborn child of a French couple who watch in amazement at the vigorous movement of the baby in the womb. To say the child isn't viable while in the womb is wrong, simply put. To say the child is not a real person until after birth is also wrong, this one seems real enough to me.

You know that is not what the right to chose is advocating. Why do you always have to be so dishonest?

Because the facts, truth, and law are not on his side.

 

[Politico]

How can liberals condemn ISIS beheadings?

After all, they're nothing more than extra-late term abortions.

How can so many conservatives be this ignorant and ridiculous.

It's as if being this stupid and ignorant is a prerequisite for being a conservative.

Just like thinking a one year old can decide they are gay is a prerequisite for being a progressive. Different strokes.

 

[idb]

Dude. You can't go the science route with these people. They don't give a shit about science. They give a shit about what their ideology and peers say is ethical and taking the position most likely to earn them praise from their peers. You have to appeal to their own values if you want to reach them at all. Anything else is going to provoke a sneering contest at best.

That's laughable. It's the left who can't comprehend science when it comes to the medical field. I remember lefties being up in arms because they claimed Republicans were saying it was a baby two weeks before conception. Turns out they couldn't understand how a doctor determined the gestational age of a fetus and that is what the article was about. They still don't like doctors being so cautious about abortions, wanting all the tests done beforehand and all. They think of abortion as a manicure, even late stage abortion. They'd prefer the doctor proceed without any preparation. Heck, they want non-physicians to take over abortion procedures so we can have even more of them. And forget that safety shit, like being a reasonable distance from a hospital when something goes wrong. I posted a thread not long ago regarding the lack of oversight and inspections of abortion clinics. The left wanted legal abortion to end the back alley abortions and now they pretty much want to go back to that.

Try messing with an eagle's egg and you'll be in big trouble. It's just an egg, a nothing, right? But of course we know that destroying it means ultimately destroying an eagle.

There are too damn many abortions and the left prefers that over people being responsible. It gets worse every year.

What's not laughable is the contempt you and most others on the right have for individual liberty, how you seek to expand the size and authority of government at the expense of that individual liberty, and how most conservatives are comfortable with the notion of government deciding when life begins, instead of the individual in accordance with his own good conscience.

Damn Conservatives...they believe that the government always knows best!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Would the OP like to name the people here who he believes are "pro abortion"?

The policies that are supported by liberals regarding this issue and women's health in general will result in fewer abortions being performed.

If you want fewer abortions, nutters, stop voting for people who don't know how that goal is achieved.

Thank you.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm going to be flatly blunt. The pro-Abortion crowd is dead wrong about human biology. A human is a human inside the womb and out. This video is proof of such. This is the unborn child of a French couple who watch in amazement at the vigorous movement of the baby in the womb. To say the child isn't viable while in the womb is wrong, simply put. To say the child is not a real person until after birth is also wrong, this one seems real enough to me.

Guy, most abortions aren't performed that late in the pregnancy. Most are performed between 8-12 weeks when the fetus is the size of a kidney bean.

Not viable. Not a person.

Take your silly ass religion and go bother someone who gives a fuck.

 

[JoeB131]

So, what does the baby belong to? Who created it? Who is the progenitor? The moment the fetus takes on the form of a human child, it belongs to the human species and therefore it is human. Sorry.

Again- her body- her choice.

 

[JoeB131]

I mean, you can protect the life of the unborn child in criminal acts of murder, but the unborn child is up a creek when it comes to the 'choice' of the mother.

As it should be. The minute we start giving a clump of cells more rights than the person it is in, that's really a cause of trouble.

By your logic, we should make women have their rapists' babies. We should force women to have babies that endanger their health because that baby's life is more important.

You wingnuts would scream freedom all day, but not when it comes to women and their lady parts.

 

[Dragonlady]

The purpose of banning abortion isn't to save the lives of the unborn, but to discourage women from having sex.

drivel

Why would you want to force a woman to bear and raise a child she doesn't want and can't afford? That's hardly a way of ensuring the child will have a good life. And yet that's what banning abortions would do.

Countries with sex education in schools, single payer health care and mandated paid maternity leaves have much lower abortion rates than the US and yet Americans steadfastly resist such legislation as impugning their "freedoms".

These same freedom fighters are the ones who would ban a woman's right to choose. Apparently right wingers CAN suck and blow at the same time.

you are a complete snotbrain, I am very pro abortion, but your claim that banning abortions is to discourage women from having sex is just a complete load of old bollocks.

Clearly you have not read the posts of the anti-abortion faction on this board who refer to women who have abortions as selfish uncaring sluts who should have to take responsibility for their actions. And if they don't want to get pregnant they shouldn't have sex.

Having an abortion IS taking responsibility but not to anti-abortionists. That's making an innocent child pay for their promiscuity. They ignore the studies which say that their view of the women who get abortions is false and call these women sluts who need to show some self respect and stop spreading their legs. Then they talk about how much better women behaved before the sexual revolution.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm going to be flatly blunt. The pro-Abortion crowd is dead wrong about human biology. A human is a human inside the womb and out. This video is proof of such. This is the unborn child of a French couple who watch in amazement at the vigorous movement of the baby in the womb. To say the child isn't viable while in the womb is wrong, simply put. To say the child is not a real person until after birth is also wrong, this one seems real enough to me.

If your view is accepted then the only appropriate treatment of abortion would be to criminalize it as a capital crime,

and subject women to long prison sentences or the death penalty for having an abortion.

Is that your view, or do you have an illogical alternative conclusion?

 

[chikenwing]

Dude. You can't go the science route with these people. They don't give a shit about science. They give a shit about what their ideology and peers say is ethical and taking the position most likely to earn them praise from their peers. You have to appeal to their own values if you want to reach them at all. Anything else is going to provoke a sneering contest at best.

Science don't support anti-abortion people. Their arguments are based on emotion, not reason or science, just like the OP who screams look, look...

What a crock of shit,science supports pro life way more than the other way around,a persons DNA is stamped for ever at the moment of conception,nothing more needs to be said,science prove it human,and deserve to be afforded that persons right to life.Pro abortion crowd are just denying ones own existence

COMMON FUCKING SENSE,something missing from the pro death squad.

 

[chikenwing]

The purpose of banning abortion isn't to save the lives of the unborn, but to discourage women from having sex.

drivel

Why would you want to force a woman to bear and raise a child she doesn't want and can't afford? That's hardly a way of ensuring the child will have a good life. And yet that's what banning abortions would do.

Countries with sex education in schools, single payer health care and mandated paid maternity leaves have much lower abortion rates than the US and yet Americans steadfastly resist such legislation as impugning their "freedoms".

These same freedom fighters are the ones who would ban a woman's right to choose. Apparently right wingers CAN suck and blow at the same time.

you are a complete snotbrain, I am very pro abortion, but your claim that banning abortions is to discourage women from having sex is just a complete load of old bollocks.

Clearly you have not read the posts of the anti-abortion faction on this board who refer to women who have abortions as selfish uncaring sluts who should have to take responsibility for their actions. And if they don't want to get pregnant they shouldn't have sex.

Having an abortion IS taking responsibility but not to anti-abortionists. That's making an innocent child pay for their promiscuity. They ignore the studies which say that their view of the women who get abortions is false and call these women sluts who need to show some self respect and stop spreading their legs. Then they talk about how much better women behaved before the sexual revolution.

So killing a child is taking responsibility??WTF??? that responsibility???!!!

 

[chikenwing]

The purpose of banning abortion isn't to save the lives of the unborn, but to discourage women from having sex.

drivel

Why would you want to force a woman to bear and raise a child she doesn't want and can't afford? That's hardly a way of ensuring the child will have a good life. And yet that's what banning abortions would do.

Countries with sex education in schools, single payer health care and mandated paid maternity leaves have much lower abortion rates than the US and yet Americans steadfastly resist such legislation as impugning their "freedoms".

These same freedom fighters are the ones who would ban a woman's right to choose. Apparently right wingers CAN suck and blow at the same time.

you are a complete snotbrain, I am very pro abortion, but your claim that banning abortions is to discourage women from having sex is just a complete load of old bollocks.

Clearly you have not read the posts of the anti-abortion faction on this board who refer to women who have abortions as selfish uncaring sluts who should have to take responsibility for their actions. And if they don't want to get pregnant they shouldn't have sex.

Having an abortion IS taking responsibility but not to anti-abortionists. That's making an innocent child pay for their promiscuity. They ignore the studies which say that their view of the women who get abortions is false and call these women sluts who need to show some self respect and stop spreading their legs. Then they talk about how much better women behaved before the sexual revolution.

What parent would sacrifice their own child,for the parent benefit? what kind of person is that?
Its a human child,nothing more nothing less,untill the pro death people are willing to admit to mthat FACT you will see post like this.
Yes you are selfish

 

[sealybobo]

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws the subjugate a woman's right to control her body?

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws that end the life of unborn children?

Very easy. We say that life isnt so precious that a woman can't terminate it in its first stage.

Many religious women who find themselves pregnant at the wrong time deal with the rational and ethics of it. I guess unless you're in the situation they are in you'll never know. All you need to know is abortion is a necessary evil we need in our not perfect world.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The purpose of banning abortion isn't to save the lives of the unborn, but to discourage women from having sex.

drivel

Why would you want to force a woman to bear and raise a child she doesn't want and can't afford? That's hardly a way of ensuring the child will have a good life. And yet that's what banning abortions would do.

Countries with sex education in schools, single payer health care and mandated paid maternity leaves have much lower abortion rates than the US and yet Americans steadfastly resist such legislation as impugning their "freedoms".

These same freedom fighters are the ones who would ban a woman's right to choose. Apparently right wingers CAN suck and blow at the same time.

you are a complete snotbrain, I am very pro abortion, but your claim that banning abortions is to discourage women from having sex is just a complete load of old bollocks.

Clearly you have not read the posts of the anti-abortion faction on this board who refer to women who have abortions as selfish uncaring sluts who should have to take responsibility for their actions. And if they don't want to get pregnant they shouldn't have sex.

Having an abortion IS taking responsibility but not to anti-abortionists. That's making an innocent child pay for their promiscuity. They ignore the studies which say that their view of the women who get abortions is false and call these women sluts who need to show some self respect and stop spreading their legs. Then they talk about how much better women behaved before the sexual revolution.

So killing a child is taking responsibility??WTF??? that responsibility???!!!

Is taking an abortion pill 1st degree murder?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I'm going to be flatly blunt. The pro-Abortion crowd is dead wrong about human biology. A human is a human inside the womb and out. This video is proof of such. This is the unborn child of a French couple who watch in amazement at the vigorous movement of the baby in the womb. To say the child isn't viable while in the womb is wrong, simply put. To say the child is not a real person until after birth is also wrong, this one seems real enough to me.

If we define death as when brain activity ceases, that should be how we define "life" too. A baby's life therefore begins much earlier than we usually understand.

Babies have a brain and by week 9 can move their limbs.

What your baby looks like -- 9 weeks BabyCenter

 

[deltex1]

Their arguments are based on emotion, not reason or science,

(Snort)

You're one to talk.

Yes, I am, because anti-abortion people cannot make rational arguments. Even your OP is just an appeal to emotion.

It's an appeal to a child's right to life...which in your case was a big mistake.

 

[chikenwing]

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws the subjugate a woman's right to control her body?

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws that end the life of unborn children?

Very easy. We say that life isnt so precious that a woman can't terminate it in its first stage.

Many religious women who find themselves pregnant at the wrong time deal with the rational and ethics of it. I guess unless you're in the situation they are in you'll never know. All you need to know is abortion is a necessary evil we need in our not perfect world.

That is just another rationalization.

 

[chikenwing]

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws the subjugate a woman's right to control her body?

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws that end the life of unborn children?

Very easy. We say that life isnt so precious that a woman can't terminate it in its first stage.

Many religious women who find themselves pregnant at the wrong time deal with the rational and ethics of it. I guess unless you're in the situation they are in you'll never know. All you need to know is abortion is a necessary evil we need in our not perfect world.

We live that very situation you speak of ,we chose life over death,35 years ago,it was the right choice,was it easy eating mac and cheese all the time at first,ya real hard,but our daughter is more than worth any amount of sacrifice.
Don't be selfish,choose life its the right thing to do.

 

[sealybobo]

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws the subjugate a woman's right to control her body?

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws that end the life of unborn children?

Very easy. We say that life isnt so precious that a woman can't terminate it in its first stage.

Many religious women who find themselves pregnant at the wrong time deal with the rational and ethics of it. I guess unless you're in the situation they are in you'll never know. All you need to know is abortion is a necessary evil we need in our not perfect world.

We live that very situation you speak of ,we chose life over death,35 years ago,it was the right choice,was it easy eating mac and cheese all the time at first,ya real hard,but our daughter is more than worth any amount of sacrifice.
Don't be selfish,choose life its the right thing to do.

I would choose life but I'm no longer an 18 year old kid in college. Back then I would have wanted the girl to abort. And many women have would and will choose abortion. They aren't all you. You want to take abortion off the table for people who don't think like you. Our secular society has spoken. Abortion is not murder. You say it is. The society you live in says you're wrong.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It doesn't matter if one considers a fetus a clump of cells or a viable human infant as of yet to be birthed.

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws the subjugate a woman's right to control her body? Abortion will happen either legally and as safely as medical practices can make it, or illegally and unsafely. Do you suggest that we strap women into beds in facilities if they maybe harbor thoughts of abortion? Put women in jail for aborting or attempting to abort? Jailing abortion doctors? It ain't gonna happen. A fertus doesn't have any legal rights and voters even in the most conservative states haven't supported measures to extend rights to the unborn.

The SCOTUS ruled on this issue 41 years ago. The fight is over. Don't like abortion? Don't get one.

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), is a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court on the issue of abortion. Decided simultaneously with a companion case, Doe v. Bolton, the Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion, but that this right must be balanced against the state's two legitimate interests in regulating abortions: protecting prenatal life and protecting women's health. Arguing that these state interests became stronger over the course of a pregnancy, the Court resolved this balancing test by tying state regulation of abortion to the third trimester of pregnancy.

The Court later rejected Roe 's trimester framework, while affirming Roe 's central holding that a person has a right to abortion until viability.[1] The Roedecision defined "viable" as being "potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid", adding that viability "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks."[2]

Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

That ignores the fact that Roe allows for controls to limit abortion in later stages.

Clearly it is not always the mothers choice even if the child has not been born yet. The short answer to your question about the things we can do is yes.

Abortion law is actually rather good these days - late term abortions are largely illegal (and that should be made universal IMHO) yet the woman has the option early in her term.

That's not at issue.

No one contests the authority of the state to limit access at later stages; the issue concerns prohibiting the practice altogether.