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I think the basis of the appeal will include bias of the judge, no one was harmed, denying Trump his right to run his business for 3 years is excessive, and the judge assumed that granting the loans was completely based on Trump's over valuation of collateral and his good credit and timely payments of his loans were not considered.At the moment nobody even knows he'll be able to come up with the cash to even get to appeal. But let's suppose he does. I've read the judgement. Something I'm sure you haven't.
It's detailed, goes over all the witnesses, what they testified to. How credible they were or weren't. That stuff isn't appealable.
What is left is the amount of damages and how the law is applied. The judgement lays out in great detail how the amount of damages was calculated and he's a judge applying a pretty common and broad anti-corruption law in New York.
I don't know what the basis for an appeal would even be or if he has the money to get to an appeal within 30 days.
I suspect he'll be able to come up with the cash. I highly doubt he'll get anywhere on appeal.
In the judges order Trump was "enjoined from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for a period of three years; which creates problems in selling or transferring any assets. There will be and independent monitor appointed and a compliance officer that will report to the court. Also Trump will have appoint someone to act as CEO.Once he pays the judgement there will be no problem with him setting up a new business and shifting any remaining assets.
Moving states as a way to try to get out of the judgement won’t work though.
WW
JUST IN: A judge has ordered former President Donald Trump and his companies to pay nearly $355 million in a ruling in the New York civil fraud case. The former president is also barred from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in the state for three years. Trump is expected to appeal the decision. Read the full ruling.
The lawsuit: The judge had already found Trump is liable for fraud in the civil case, but New York Attorney General Letitia James was seeking $370 million in damages. James was also looking to bar Trump from doing business in the state, alleging that the former president, his adult sons and his company defrauded banks and insurance companies by inflating the value of Trump’s assets.
Why it matters: The case is civil, not criminal, but threatens Trump's business in New York. The trial in this case has served as a precursor to the four criminal trials Trump faces this year as he campaigns to regain the presidency.
Judge orders Trump to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial
Wow, that's a pleasant surprise! What do you think"?
Nah. That's totally bullshit cooked up by paid liars to feed the cult.Many large investors will leave NY because of this, regardless of if the ruling stands or not.
Most often the civil law Trump was charged with is used in connection with the criminal law that makes it a crime to falsify bank loan applications. Since the level of intent in criminal law is much higher than in civil law, the DA chose to just prosecute using Civil Law. She could have charged him with both and if found guilty he would be appealing his jail sentence as well as the civil penalties.All of this to say that Trump may have exaggerated the value of his real estate holdings. As usual, Democrat are missing the larger point here, which is that this is nothing but a political stunt as this law is not typically applied in such a way.
"These cases typically involve many victims who lost large sums of money to businesses that exploited their poor financial savvy, according to legal experts.
Defendants in those cases have run the gamut, from chicken suppliers to crypto exchanges and loan sharks. A common thread is often a large group of victims who were exploited because the did not know any better, according to legal experts."
"The attorney general's job is to protect people who can't protect themselves," Syracuse University law professor Gregory Germain said. "Here, we're dealing with very sophisticated lenders who are fully capable of protecting themselves and haven't asked the attorney general for help."
Banks have very sophisticated financial experts, particularly when it comes to very large business loans. They do their own due diligence, as they should. I guess we are supposed to believe that banks give large loans based on whatever arbitrary value a potential client puts on their assets. These bank determined that Trump was good for the loans and they were proven to be correct. The bank could have called the Trump Organization out on his property evaluations but chose not to for risk of losing the loan. They also could have proposed higher interest rates which they didn't do for the same reason. The bank knew the organization may have gone elsewhere to secure these loans, which were VERY lucrative for the bank. They were proven to be absolutely correct in their assessment in that they secured the deal and made a lot of money.
This entire thing is nothing more than an attempt at election interference under the guise of enforcing the law. It is absurd that you can't see that.
Now, answer my questions. Why wasn't this brought up prior to Trump becoming President and why did James specifically target Trump and his family when running for the Attorney General position in 2018?
https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump...peal-may-hinge-no-victims-defense-2024-02-16/
But who is going to underwrite that bond when the subject has lost control of most his business and facing 3 criminal trials.He can acquire a bond.
A trump supporter.But who is going to underwrite that bond when the subject has lost control of most his business and facing 3 criminal trials.
In the judges order Trump was "enjoined from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for a period of three years; which creates problems in selling or transferring any assets. There will be and independent monitor appointed and a compliance officer that will report to the court. Also Trump will have appoint someone to act as CEO.
Under this structure the appointed CEO could approve of sale of assets. However since most of his New York assets have little or no equity since he mortgages his New York assets to the hilt to finance various project around the country and the world.
So in order to sell his New York assets, he would have to get loans to pay the difference in loan balance and current market value. With Trump unable to borrow from New York banks which include foreign banks with offices in New York, he would have to turn to a private entity. That would raise the question as who would loan money to someone who is facing 3 criminal trials, has a limited credit line, and no control of half of his business assets.
I don't think the statute under which he was charged, or for that matter any statute needs actual harm. In fact, as I've argued before if you get a reduced interest rate on the basis of a wealth you have overstated. That interest rate, even if repaid still will be low. I might be wrong.I think the basis of the appeal will include bias of the judge, no one was harmed, denying Trump his right to run his business for 3 years is excessive, and the judge assumed that granting the loans was completely based on Trump's over valuation of collateral and his good credit and timely payments of his loans were not considered.
I think the last claim has the most merit and may persuade the judges to reduce the financial penalty. I think the rest of the judge's order will stand.
How does this apply here? The charge isn't that he misrepresented the value of a property so he could get a commercial loan for that property. The charge is that he misrepresented his overall wealth so he could get a lower interest rate. Something that isn't a direct loan for a property.Because it’s so elementary….
”In fact, under Federal law, a bank is not allowed to accept an appraisal ordered by either the borrower or his mortgage broker.”
Commercial Appraisals
Commercial Appraisals Commercial real estate appraisals are usually very expensive. You will seldom see a commercial appraisal for less than $2,000; and $4,000 is probably the most common cost these days for commercial real estate loans of aroundwww.c-loans.com
www.bhlawfirm.com
law.justia.com
However, the focus of the judge in the trial seemed to focus on the valuation of properties…When Engoron, with the wave of his gavel assigned values to his properties that were not only, grossly undervalued, like Mar-a-Lago (valued at a laughable $18 mil) , Judge Engoron committed fraud against Trump for the purpose of creating the so called civil infraction.How does this apply here? The charge isn't that he misrepresented the value of a property so he could get a commercial loan for that property. The charge is that he misrepresented his overall wealth so he could get a lower interest rate. Something that isn't a direct loan for a property.
Williams corroborated the testimony of Nicholas Haigh that Deutsche Bank would apply a standard 50% haircut to the values of assets supplied by a client on an SFC, testifying that “it is –it is after we have made what I would say are generally our standard adjustments that we apply to really any given high-net-worth individual or ultra-high-net-worth individual’s provided financial statements.” TT 5374-5375, 5382-5384.
There is absolutely no mention by the defense, the banks, or the judge that this obligation falls under the Federal Institutions Reform, Recovery and Enforcement Act. Their are however about a million references and acknowledgments that Sfc's are required to be accurate by law.
I like the argument. It just doesn't seem to prove your point.
See if you can find. "Oh, I know the statements were wrong but nobody was hurt or it's not my job to be truthful", in these arguments?Guide to fraudulent misrepresentation in New York | Bachner & Associates, PC
If you are accused of fraudulent misrepresentation in New York, there's a potential of facing a felony charge or even having your company shut down. Therefore, it is important to understand its elements and what to do in case your client files a lawsuit. Understanding fraudulent...
- Not knowing that the statement you were giving was false
- Proving that your statement was indeed true
- You didn’t make the statement with the intention of defrauding anyone
- If you are facing a civil RICO fraud accusation, you can also argue that you weren’t part of a criminal enterprise
Seems pretty straightforward to me.2022 New York Laws :: PEN - Penal :: Part 3 - Specific Offenses :: Title K - Offenses Involving Fraud :: Article 175 - Offenses Involving False Written Statements :: 175.10 - Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree.
Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes
reason.com
And the laws that the fat orange slob broke are meant to protect investors from criminals like trump.
Most often the civil law Trump was charged with is used in connection with the criminal law that makes it a crime to falsify bank loan applications. Since the level of intent in criminal law is much higher than in civil law, the DA chose to just prosecute using Civil Law. She could have charged him with both and if found guilty he would be appealing his jail sentence as well as the civil penalties.
The fact that she chose not to prosecute him on a felony charge does not help Trump's case.
found liable in a bench trial by a biased judge who announced the verdict before any evidence was presented and did not allow Trump or his lawyers to bring witnesses or even speak. Its called a kangaroo court. that verdict will not stand, it will be overturned on appeal even by the dem appointed NY appeals court.He was charged with a Civil violation and found liable. The criminal cases are coming soon.
and businesses are leaving NY in droves after this fraudulent ruling.That is not at all why this law was created, which is why it has never been used as it is being used against the Trump Organization.
Mark my words, this law will be modified or repealed after all this settles.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump...peal-may-hinge-no-victims-defense-2024-02-16/
When you are judging if a realty company commits fraud. How they valuate property will be a big part of that judgement.However, the focus of the judge in the trial seemed to focus on the valuation of properties…When Engoron, with the wave of his gavel assigned values to his properties that were not only, grossly undervalued, like Mar-a-Lago (valued at a laughable $18 mil) , Judge Engoron committed fraud against Trump for the purpose of creating the so called civil infraction.
Further, the fines imposed are excessive, and a violation of the 8th amendment…along with other rights violated by this judge, and prosecutor…
“Ms. James and Judge Engeron have essentially turned a vaguely worded New York State law into a modern day Bill of Attainder targeted at Donald Trump both for political gain and because they despise his political views and desperately want to call his truthfulness into question as he runs for President of the United States inn 2024. In doing this, the have violated Trump's First Amendment right to freedom of speech and of the press; his Fifth Amendment right not to be deprived of liberty or property without due process of law; his Fifth Amendment right not to have property taken away from him except for a pubic use with just compensation being paid; his Eighth Amendment right not to be made to pay an excessive fine; his Article IV, Section 2 right as a citizen of Florida to do make and enforce contracts in New York on the same terms as are other New Yorkers; and his Fourteenth Amendment right to be free to pursue an occupation without unnecessary and burdensome regulation.
The civil fraud judgment against Donald Trump is a travesty and an unjust political act rivaled only in American politics by the killing of former Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton by Vice President Aaron Burr. If the New York State appellate courts do not reverse this judgment, the U.S. Supreme Court MUST grant cert on this case and reverse Judge Engeron's outrageous decisions. National, presidential politics will be permanently altered if a local State's legal system can be used in this way against candidates for President of the United States. This case raises a national issue of profound importance and if the New York State appellate courts do not address it, the U.S. Supreme Court MUST!”
President Trump's Kafkaesque Civil Trial in New York State
A Stalinist nightmare in New York State
I would think that in most all statues some party is harmed, a specific individual or group or the people. In the statue Trump violated, it was the people that were harmed, businesses and individuals who are honest in completing a loan application. In civil cases file by the DA, it usually the people that are harmed. Thus they are in effect the plaintiff in the civil case.I don't think the statute under which he was charged, or for that matter any statute needs actual harm. In fact, as I've argued before if you get a reduced interest rate on the basis of a wealth you have overstated. That interest rate, even if repaid still will be low. I might be wrong.
In the trial the State of Financial Condition which was revised each year was mention several times. In fact, this statement was attached to at least some loan applications. It was also used to attract investors, buyers, and provide financial publications with information in ranking the Trump Organization. I suspect it was more than just banks that were the object of Trump's inflated asset values.When you are judging if a realty company commits fraud. How they valuate property will be a big part of that judgement.
So why don't we see what he said about that.
-The Trump company stated in their financial statement that properties had value as if they were renovated without it being the case. This is not something subjective.
-They stated that properties were 3 times bigger than they were in reality. Not subjective
-They stated that they had the rights to developed twice the number of units of a property than they were legally allowed to do. Not subjective.
-They stated that they had the right to develop 5 times the number of another property that they were legally allowed to do. Not subjective
-In order to get tax relief they stated that they weren't allowed to develop Mar O Lago at all. Yet valuated it as if they were. Not subjective
-They routinely overstated the value of properties assessors THEY hired by several orders of magnitude. Times twenty in one case.
-They sourced some of their assessments of properties to an assessor that didn't do the valuations.
-Oh yes, and their CFO plead guilty to fifteen counts of the falsifying business records and tax evasion. A CFO who to this day has a severance package conditioned specifically on the premise that he can't voluntarily work with the prosecution.
I repeat Weisselberg's financial future is dependent on keeping silent.
As for your article. Let's just say that for a website reporting the "news" finding several spelling errors doesn't bode well. Neither does the use of loaded language and some question begging.
But the arguments are simply bad. They're complaining that the judgements against him hurt him financially like that's proof of something. Financial penalties are supposed to hurt. They complain the financial monitor is not capable of supervising the business. They fail to mention that this person was the only one both sides agreed on. And they aren't expanding her power as a further punishment. failing to mention they're expanding her power because TRUMP violated the terms of the monitoring which stated that every transfer over 5 million needed to be reported. Something he didn't do when he transferred over 40 million without notifying her when she requested information as per her last report. They were literally hiding assets when under court monitoring. They claim his constitutional rights are being violated. HOW?
Neither are the fines excessive. The fines are the difference between the interest rates of commercial loans versus the interest rates he got on those loans because his personal guarantee based on the purported wealth in the financial statements. Something that speaks to the size of the loans and the liability of the banks and the long time of the Trump organization committing fraud.
This civil statue is often used to collect a penalty and recover ill-gotten funds when the defendant is found guilty of the criminal statue. The DA spent some time early in the trial showing to the judges satisfaction that the two laws stand on their own; that is, the guilt in the criminal statue is not necessary to establish liability in the the civil statue.That is not at all why this law was created, which is why it has never been used as it is being used against the Trump Organization.
Mark my words, this law will be modified or repealed after all this settles.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump...peal-may-hinge-no-victims-defense-2024-02-16/
