Zone1 Jews: Do you blame Jesus for all the persecution our people have suffered?

[Meriweather]

Another powerful prophesy is Isahiah 53

Yes. It is about Israel.

 

[Lisa558]

Actually it is.

The text comes from eyewitness encounters with Jesus in the form of the 4 gospels.

Paul was also a real historical figure who wrote most of the NT.

The entire Bible is a valuable insight into the past, as most historical texts have been lost or not recorded at all since most of history has been lost forever.

So it’s what people claim he said, written as long as 100 years after the fact?

And Paul is the trouble-maker behind all this. Jesus never intended to destroy Judaism and create a new religion. That was Paul’s doing.

 

[surada]

Mark is the earliest of the Gospels written and probably sooner than what you claim since we have no way of proving they were not written by the eyewitnesses. All we can do is date the earliest known manuscript.

Nonetheless, the gospels are the earliest writings about Jesus, which makes them the most relevant since either the eyewitnesses wrote it or someone wrote about what they said.

Conversely, Mohammad coming along 500 some years later and rewriting the gospels after seeing "visions" is what is laughable. Mo actually said that God put some other poor soul on the cross to die in place of Jesus.

Yep. Muslims don't believe in original sin or blood sacrifice so they are horrified that the purest of the prophets died such a cruel and humiliating death.

Everyone had visions in those days.

 

[Votto]

Do you believe scripture or not?

Scriptures say that Jesus is coming a Second time

If that has already happened, when did it happen?

 

[Kruska]

Incorrect. Paul of Tarsus died in AD 67, or perhaps AD 64.

I have never come across any proof that the NT was or began to be written by Saul of Tarsus. And even those 7 notes that are attributed to him - wouldn't constitute a proof towards what he claimed or supposedly witnessed.
Also his conviction was devoted towards Pharisee (life after death) - which places questions as to his actual fellowship.
AFAIK - he never met this Jesus - but only some of the Apostles.

 

[surada]

Scriptures say that Jesus is coming a Second time

If that has already happened, when did it happen?

After the crucifixion Jesus made ten appearances in 40 days. Maybe that was it.

 

[Meriweather]

And Paul is the trouble-maker behind all this. Jesus never intended to destroy Judaism and create a new religion. That was Paul’s doing.

Paul was not a trouble-maker, and did not talk about Jesus with any intent to destroy Judaism. He took Jesus' teachings to the Gentiles.

 

[Votto]

Yep. Muslims don't believe in original sin or blood sacrifice so they are horrified that the purest of the prophets died such a cruel and humiliating death.

Everyone had visions in those days.

Christ is not the only prophet in the Bible to be treated this way. After all, prophets are usually sent by God to warn them about doing really bad things he feels compelled to judge them over in the hopes they might repent and avoid judgement. Moses was the exception as he was sent to lead them out of slavery. In addition, no one likes to be told they are ever wrong about anything, let alone about being wicked. The natural reaction is to kill them or cancel them, as the Left likes to do as any and all truth must be crushed!

Luke 11:50

Therefore, this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,

Mohammad, however, presents a problem. How can he also be one of God's prophets and not suffer the same fate? Instead, Mo took a sword and converted with the sword for a worldly kingdom and glory as Mr. Perfect was nothing but a cookie cutter warlord. The closest comparison in the Bible was the conquering of the Promised land, but then, Moses was not even allowed into it because he had sinned.

Just ask a Muslim if Mohammad had ever sinned. LOL. Yet another problem theologically. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God as Christ was the only sinless man to have ever walked the earth.

 

[norwegen]

Scriptures say that Jesus is coming a Second time

If that has already happened, when did it happen?

Only in Acts and Hebrews does anyone refer to a "second coming." But only in a New Testament context (kingdom and judgment), as Christ had already come many times before.

Christ never said he would come a second time. Only that he comes.

Christ foretold his judgment on Judea, and you don't know when Judea was judged? Its destruction is in the history books. Revelation describes it as judgment.

 

[norwegen]

I have never come across any proof that the NT was or began to be written by Saul of Tarsus. And even those 7 notes that are attributed to him - wouldn't constitute a proof towards what he claimed or supposedly witnessed.

What is the proof you have that someone other than Paul wrote Paul's epistles?

 

[Votto]

Paul was not a trouble-maker, and did not talk about Jesus with any intent to destroy Judaism. He took Jesus' teachings to the Gentiles.

No, Paul was a trouble maker. He hunted down Christians and murdered them.

Then for some unexplainable reason, he reversed course as he preached the gospels instead.

Then he stirred up even more trouble, as they sought to murder him the rest of his life until they succeeded.

 

[Lisa558]

Paul was not a trouble-maker, and did not talk about Jesus with any intent to destroy Judaism. He took Jesus' teachings to the Gentiles.

Paul didn‘t tell Jews that Jesus was the son of G-d? And that he warned that the only way to the Father is through the son? Where did this dire warning come from then that those who “don’t accept Jesus go to hell” bit come from.

That is antithetical to Judaism, and anyone who believes that a mortal man is a deity is not a practicing Jew. If all Jews believed that, there would be no more Judaism.

 

[Votto]

Only in Acts and Hebrews does anyone refer to a "second coming." But only in a New Testament context (kingdom and judgment), as Christ had already come many times before.

Christ never said he would come a second time. Only that he comes.

Christ foretold his judgment on Judea, and you don't know when Judea was judged? Its destruction is in the history books. Revelation describes it as judgment.

Off the top of my head I know that is not accurate

Ever heard of Revelations written by John?

But thanks for discounting scripture you don't like based on the character assassination just like Leftists do every day of the week.

It's like murdering Paul a second time

Good times

 

[norwegen]

Off the top of my head I know that is not accurate

What is not accurate?

Ever heard of Revelations written by John?

No.

Ever hear of Revelation?

But thanks for discounting scripture you don't like based on the character assassination

What did I discount?

 

[Dadoalex]

After all, it does say in the Christian Bible that “his blood is on Jews and all their generations“ along with other anti-Jewish verses.

Me? I do not. I think Jesus was basically a good man, with good intentions, and taught traditional Jewish values. His “do unto others” teaching, for example, can straight from Hillel.

The problem really started decades later when the NT was written. The claims that Jesus said “nobody gets to the Father except through me” is either outright false (no Jew would elevate himself like that) or misconstrued when he meant one must follow his teachings to see Gd.

That interpretation led to the idea the Gd is angry at Jews, has cursed them, and some of the other nasty stuff I’ve read right here on this forum. And the more Jews stuck with their religion that clearly outlined who the Messiah would be - Jesus didn’t fit - the more angry the 1st c Christians got with them. By the time John was written, they were in all-out assault mode.

Jesus certainly never intended any of this.

Why blame Jesus, he was long dead when the New Testament was written.
That attacks on Jews is the same with all monotheists.
For them to be right, every other religion must be wrong.
Christian, Muslim, Jew...All falling from the same cult tree.

 

[Dadoalex]

Yes. Rather odd when Jesus, in his own time, had more who supported him than did not.

Do you have a Rasmussen poll showing that?

 

[Votto]

Paul didn‘t tell Jews that Jesus was the son of G-d? And that he warned that the only way to the Father is through the son? Where did this dire warning come from then that those who “don’t accept Jesus go to hell” bit come from.

That is antithetical to Judaism, and anyone who believes that a mortal man is a deity is not a practicing Jew. If all Jews believed that, there would be no more Judaism.

Every man must be confronted with this question, and that is, who and what is the man Jesus?

Matthew 16:13

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Why did Jesus not want his followers to reveal who he was yet?

It was because he knew it would trigger them wanting to put him on the cross and when he was not ready to go yet.

So, why would that trigger them to do that?

It is because they viewed such a statement as blasphemy

So, why was it blasphemous?

Because he was making himself equal with God.

Mark 14:60



Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.



Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”



62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”



63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”

 

[Lisa558]

Why blame Jesus, he was long dead when the New Testament was written.
That attacks on Jews is the same with all monotheists.
For them to be right, every other religion must be wrong.
Christian, Muslim, Jew...All falling from the same cult tree.

Not true. Jews believe that people of other faiths can go to Heaven if they are good people. Christians of course take a “my way or the highway to hell” approach, and I believe Muslims feel the same.

 

[Kruska]

What is the proof you have that someone other than Paul wrote Paul's epistles?

Where is the proof, that he wrote or started to write the NT - around 50+ years after his own death?
That the content of his 7 notes/letters were in-cooperated by some other into the NT - isn't the question.

Saul of Tarsus is IMO the birth-bringer of developing a separate belief from Judaism - later termed Christianity by those composing the NT in the following centuries.

 

[norwegen]

Where is the proof, that he wrote or started to write the NT - around 50+ years after his death?
That the content of his 7 notes/letters were in-cooperated by some other into the NT - isn't the question.

What is the proof you have that someone other than Paul wrote Paul's epistles?