Zone1 Jews: Do you blame Jesus for all the persecution our people have suffered?

[ReinyDays]

Okay - a Pauperes and IIRC Valdes, aka Waldo was a former Rabbi. Not sure however if Waldensee's are a pure Jewish sub group or intermixed or deriving from Christians - who in turn rely heavily onto Hebrew customs and scripts. - the latter would help to explain the existence of the first non Latin written Bible around the 11th-12th century.

As for, where would the pagans be without the Roman Church; - well the Celtic and Germanic tribes had clear customs and definitions of moral - most of the now Christian termed festivities or rituals e.g. marriage rituals actually derive from e.g. Germanic religious customs. The Romans had their clear laws and moral values as well - ages before Christianity came up. Christians call him God and those Celtics or Germanic's called him Odin or respectively Wotan - plus some other deities to make the whole thing a bit more colorful.

The only real significant difference obvious to me is that these 3 Monotheistic religions are pure power concentrated/projected religions in contra to e.g. Hinduism, the classic Greek believes or those of the Germanic and Celtic people. In other words those three Monos project the power of those power circles pulling the strings behind the religion into a single source of command and utter obedience.

So if you defy a single Gods words (actually their words and intentions) you are dead meat, since no other power can help you - one is therefore at the utter mercy of the respective religious power group. Whilst in religions that also behold other deities - one can still find a way to wiggle himself out of having defied or angered e.g. Wotan - by being at good odds with e,g, Thor or Donar, or Shiva in case you are at odds with Ganesha. As such these religious power circles do not posses an ultimate power such as the Monos.

The Bible written into our hearts has been being written into our hearts since the beginning ... long before there was writing ... it doesn't matter where or when you think this all began, stealing has always been wrong ... that's what animals do, not us ...

 

[surada]

Political spin ...

It's not political.. this is from some of the finest archaeologists and scholars in Israel.

 

[norwegen]

Funny.

Is it?

So, what was it in Jerusalem's future that the gospels had wrong?

 

[TNHarley]

Jerusalem is not near Galilee.

You said "Israel"
I dont understand why you are having so many problems understanding that.

 

[irosie91]

The Bible exaggerates everything. Jerusalem was 10 acres and less than a thousand people at the time of David.

ALL SEVEN HILLS were in a mere 10 acres?------you should visit that city

 

[surada]

You just threw everyone in a tizzy. You meant Jerusalem has seven hills.

Honest mistake.

Yes it was my mistake, but sometimes Jerusalem stands in for all of Israel.

 

[norwegen]

ALL SEVEN HILLS were in a mere 10 acres?------you should visit that city

Nobody said that. Nobody said the seven hills were in city limits.

 

[surada]

The Bible written into our hearts has been being written into our hearts since the beginning ... long before there was writing ... it doesn't matter where or when you think this all began, stealing has always been wrong ... that's what animals do, not us ...

norwegen

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

 

[Lisa558]

Is it?

So, what was it in Jerusalem's future that the gospels had wrong?

Basically, everything claiming that Jesus was the Messiah.

But you know Jews already think this, so why start in to argue with a traditional Jew that the gospels are “actual history“? Nothing to be gained.

 

[irosie91]

Nobody said that. Nobody said the seven hills were in city limits.

the SEVEN HILLS of Jerusalem were not in the city of Jerusalem? You should
visit the place too------it is a fairly CIRCUMSCRIBED PLACE

 

[norwegen]

norwegen

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

In the first century, Jerusalem was very small geographically. A child could easily have trekked its breadth between breakfast and lunch.

Its permanent population couldn't have been more than a few thousand.

However, when armies encompassed the city, the population had swollen in observance of Passover. Hence the great suffering and tribulation.

 

[ReinyDays]

It's not political.. this is from some of the finest archaeologists and scholars in Israel.

The text calls upon the Kingdom of Israel ... is there archaeological evidence of that? ... or is the Biblical narrative casus belli for David and the Kingdom of Judah for invasion ...

Very long video ... BUT the first 30 seconds says A LOT ... scholarship meets faith ... I've watch about half of the seven collected videos, and they seemed well founded and cleverly presented ... enjoy:

 

[surada]

In the first century, Jerusalem was very small geographically. A child could easily have trekked its breadth between breakfast and lunch.

It's permanent population couldn't have been more than a few thousand.

However, when armies encompassed the city, the population had swollen in observance of Passover. Hence the great suffering and tribulation.

Herod expanded the acreage, but it was an expansion of the temple mount.

 

[norwegen]

Basically, everything claiming that Jesus was the Messiah.

But you know Jews already think this, so why start in to argue with a traditional Jew that the gospels are “actual history“? Nothing to be gained.

The post you responded to - Clyde's - isn't about Messiah. Neither is the question I asked.

The subject was Jerusalem's future - some 35-40 years out from the Olivet Discourse. What is untrue about what the gospels said regarding Jerusalem and her fate?

 

[Viktor]

After all, it does say in the Christian Bible that “his blood is on Jews and all their generations“ along with other anti-Jewish verses.

Me? I do not. I think Jesus was basically a good man, with good intentions, and taught traditional Jewish values. His “do unto others” teaching, for example, can straight from Hillel.

The problem really started decades later when the NT was written. The claims that Jesus said “nobody gets to the Father except through me” is either outright false (no Jew would elevate himself like that) or misconstrued when he meant one must follow his teachings to see Gd.

That interpretation led to the idea the Gd is angry at Jews, has cursed them, and some of the other nasty stuff I’ve read right here on this forum. And the more Jews stuck with their religion that clearly outlined who the Messiah would be - Jesus didn’t fit - the more angry the 1st c Christians got with them. By the time John was written, they were in all-out assault mode.

Jesus certainly never intended any of this.

I was not born until 1945. I did not do anything before
that.

 

[Meriweather]

Addressing the Thread Question: Jews: Do you blame Jesus for all the persecution our people have suffered?

I don't think Jews blame Jesus, which leads to a followup question of, Do you blame all Christians for the persecution Jews have suffered? I am guessing the answer would be, No, not all Christians...so the next question is, Who do you blame for the persecution Jews have suffered?

As a Catholic school student, we learned of Christian persecutions down through the ages, as well as Christian martyrs. It never occurred to me someone in modern times should be blamed. Down through history (and I'll include the Nazi regime in this) people have always been persecuted because they have something someone else wants, or they fear being prevented from taking/getting what they want.

I will never be persecuted--have never been persecuted--because I don't have anything anyone else wants. Maybe that is why coveting is one of the final Commandments because not many have things others covet? Even so, when looking at world history and the reason for ANY war, it is really not about any religion. It is about coveting what others have--usually power and/or wealth. I wonder if it would have changed anything if "You shall not covet..." was fourth instead of tenth. Probably not, but I still believe coveting--not religion--is the source of wars and persecutions.

 

[Viktor]

Please….I asked Jews for their opinion. (We already know people like you blame Jews.)

People who blame Jews for everything are too stupid to know the truth and too lazy to look it up. When anyone would tell my Grandmother that someone was blaming the Jews for something, she would always say:"Zo, vhat's new?"

 

[Clyde 154]

The LEVITES is still here------by DNA EVIDENCE

Yeah; and they dictate law as inspired by God......just like Biblical Israel, and the nation calling itself Israel today is led by the dictates of the Levite Royal Priesthood? ....or do you live by laws instituted by man and ignore the Orthodox laws as defined by these LEVITES? When was the last Burnt Offering Sacrifice you engaged to carry your sins over from season to season by giving a sacrifice to the Royal Priesthood of Levites? -- Deut 18:1-5

Again.........the facts prove that the vast majority of those who attempt to identify as being A RACE OF JEWS have not been to Temple since Moses was a baby, they are more secular than religious. There are over 16 million peoples today that identify as being a race of Jews.........of that 16 million only 5.5 practice their faith in any type of orthodox fashion.....the majority go to temple only on special Jewish Sabbaths/Holidays.

As far as DNA goes............all peoples that originated in the Middle East share the same DNA to an extent,.......Muslim, Jew, or Gentile. No religion has a personal DNA signature......religion is instructed, it is not innate to birth. There is no such animal as Jewish lite. You either practice it in an Orthodox manner, or you are guilty of breaking the entire law.

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not get entangled again with a yoke of bondage (obeying the Law verbatim, which has happened only once in world history; through the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ Jesus, the only man Born of a Woman, Born Under the Law, that was tempted as is every human.....but sinned not -- Gal. 4:4, 15)

If you claim to Justify yourself via the Old Laws of Moses........then you must worship and serve 100% of the Old Law and carry your sins over from year to year as declared by the Royal Priesthood. If not.....your claims of faith are made useless.

I respect the Orthodox Jew..........the ones that stand behind their faith with resolution, its the hypocrisy that exists in both the Jewish and Christian faith that I find intolerable.

 

[Lisa558]

Yeah; and they dictate law as inspired by God......just like Biblical Israel, and the nation calling itself Israel today is led by the dictates of the Levite Royal Priesthood? ....or do you live by laws instituted by man and ignore the Orthodox laws as defined by these LEVITES? When was the last Burnt Offering Sacrifice you engaged to carry your sins over from season to season by giving a sacrifice to the Royal Priesthood of Levites? -- Deut 18:1-5

Again.........the facts prove that the vast majority of those who attempt to identify as being A RACE OF JEWS have not been to Temple since Moses was a baby, they are more secular than religious. There are over 16 million peoples today that identify as being a race of Jews.........of that 16 million only 5.5 practice their faith in any type of orthodox fashion.....the majority go to temple only on special Jewish Sabbaths/Holidays.

As far as DNA goes............all peoples that originated in the Middle East share the same DNA to an extent,.......Muslim, Jew, or Gentile. No religion has a personal DNA signature......religion is instructed, it is not innate to birth. There is no such animal as Jewish lite. You either practice it in an Orthodox manner, or you are guilty of breaking the entire law.

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not get entangled again with a yoke of bondage (obeying the Law verbatim, which has happened only once in world history; through the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ Jesus, the only man Born of a Woman, Born Under the Law, that was tempted as is every human.....but sinned not -- Gal. 4:4, 15)

If you claim to Justify yourself via the Old Laws of Moses........then you must worship and serve 100% of the Old Law and carry your sins over from year to year as declared by the Royal Priesthood. If not.....your claims of faith are made useless.

I respect the Orthodox Jew..........the ones that stand behind their faith with resolution, its the hypocrisy that exists in both the Jewish and Christian faith that I find intolerable.

Are you from India? Your language usage is not American English.

 

[irosie91]

Yeah; and they dictate law as inspired by God......just like Biblical Israel, and the nation calling itself Israel today is led by the dictates of the Levite Royal Priesthood? ....or do you live by laws instituted by man and ignore the Orthodox laws as defined by these LEVITES? When was the last Burnt Offering Sacrifice you engaged to carry your sins over from season to season by giving a sacrifice to the Royal Priesthood of Levites? -- Deut 18:1-5

Again.........the facts prove that the vast majority of those who attempt to identify as being A RACE OF JEWS have not been to Temple since Moses was a baby, they are more secular than religious. There are over 16 million peoples today that identify as being a race of Jews.........of that 16 million only 5.5 practice their faith in any type of orthodox fashion.....the majority go to temple only on special Jewish Sabbaths/Holidays.

As far as DNA goes............all peoples that originated in the Middle East share the same DNA to an extent,.......Muslim, Jew, or Gentile. No religion has a personal DNA signature......religion is instructed, it is not innate to birth. There is no such animal as Jewish lite. You either practice it in an Orthodox manner, or you are guilty of breaking the entire law.

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not get entangled again with a yoke of bondage (obeying the Law verbatim, which has happened only once in world history; through the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ Jesus, the only man Born of a Woman, Born Under the Law, that was tempted as is every human.....but sinned not -- Gal. 4:4, 15)

If you claim to Justify yourself via the Old Laws of Moses........then you must worship and serve 100% of the Old Law and carry your sins over from year to year as declared by the Royal Priesthood. If not.....your claims of faith are made useless.

I respect the Orthodox Jew..........the ones that stand behind their faith with resolution, its the hypocrisy that exists in both the Jewish and Christian faith that I find intolerable.

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