It's Official: Trump Appeals $355 Million Ruling in New York Civil Fraud Case -- February 26, 2024

[Rawley]

He has officially filed notice of appeal, but nothing about assets yet. I imagine he still has the <30 days to come up with that.

He'll also be appealing Judge loony's denial of his motion for a stay.

 

[john doe 101]

I imagine any appeal will not be heard before his death from natural causes.

The day trump dies from natural causes will be one of the greatest days in American history. Celebrated for generations to come.

 

[john doe 101]

You mean the the real world outside your Trump hate bubble? LOL

LOL thinking you know anything about reality.

 

[para bellum]

It wasn't a fine. It was disgorgement.

Whether it qualifies as a disgorgement or a fine is based on who gets the money.

A disgorgement is an equitable remedy, and can only be used to make a victim whole. The victim is not entitled to benefit- only recover what he lost.

The State was not an investor and not harmed by Trump's actions, it actually derived a benefit from the projects. They are not entitled to any restitution unless they can show they had losses. This has to be tangible and quantifiable.

The State can fine a company for violations of business practices and other non-compliance issues, but those fines have to be compatible with the 8th and 14th amendments.

 

[Zincwarrior]

He'll also be appealing Judge loony's denial of his motion for a stay.

Literally irrelevant. To appeal he has to post.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Whether it qualifies as a disgorgement or a fine is based on who gets the money.

A disgorgement is an equitable remedy, and can only be used to make a victim whole. The victim is not entitled to benefit- only recover what he lost.

The State was not an investor and not harmed by Trump's actions, it actually derived a benefit from the projects. They are not entitled to any restitution unless they can show they had losses. This has to be tangible and quantifiable.

The State can fine a company for violations of business practices and other non-compliance issues, but those fines have to be compatible with the 8th and 14th amendments.

"Whether it qualifies as a disgorgement or a fine is based on who gets the money."

This is false.

Fines are punitive in nature.

Disgorgement is the restitution for ill-gotten profits.

WW

 

[para bellum]

Timbs v. Indiana was a criminal case not a disgorgement case.

WW

No it was not. It was a civil forfeiture/8th amendment case.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Whether it qualifies as a disgorgement or a fine is based on who gets the money.

A disgorgement is an equitable remedy, and can only be used to make a victim whole. The victim is not entitled to benefit- only recover what he lost.

The State was not an investor and not harmed by Trump's actions, it actually derived a benefit from the projects. They are not entitled to any restitution unless they can show they had losses. This has to be tangible and quantifiable.

"The purpose of disgorgement is to prevent the wrongdoer from profiting from his illegal acts, not to reimburse those who have been injured by his conduct; and there is no requirement that disgorged funds be used for investor restitution."

Receivership Sourcebook | Stenger & Stenger Attorneys at Law

Where actions are brought by the government to enjoin the continuation of conduct prohibited by law, the government frequently seeks appointment of a receiver to assist in marshalling assets on behalf of injured victims, consumers, or investors. For reasons discussed in detail in this...

www.stengerlaw.com

The State can fine a company for violations of business practices and other non-compliance issues, but those fines have to be compatible with the 8th and 14th amendments.

Those amendments do not apply.

These were not punitive damages.

What did the judge say when Trump's lawyers brought up the "victim" standard in court?

 

[iku]

it's called stealing

From whom? What amount?

 

[para bellum]

"Whether it qualifies as a disgorgement or a fine is based on who gets the money."

This is false.

Fines are punitive in nature.

Disgorgement is the restitution for ill-gotten profits.

WW

As I already pointed out, restitution is only restitution if it's money paid back to the victims. The State did not present any victims, there is no one to "restore".

"To avoid transforming an equitable remedy into a punitive sanction, courts restricted the remedy to an individual wrongdoer's net profits to be awarded for victims." -Sotomayor in Liu

 

[WorldWatcher]

No it was not. It was a civil forfeiture/8th amendment case.

The civil forfeiture was based on a criminal conviction (he pled guilty).

Civil forfeiture pursuant to an criminal action is very different than disgorgement of illegal profits.

In the Timbs case a $42,000 vehicle was confiscated for a small amount of drugs found and there was no correlation between the vehicle purchase and the small amount of drugs. The seizing of the vehicle was punitive.

In the FPOTUS#45 case there was no excess "punishment" in terms of the monitory finding. The only amount did not exceed the wrongdoers net profits directly resulting from the persistent fraudulent and illegal business activities.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

As I already pointed out, restitution is only restitution if it's money paid back to the victims. The State did not present any victims, there is no one to "restore".

"To avoid transforming an equitable remedy into a punitive sanction, courts restricted the remedy to an individual wrongdoer's net profits to be awarded for victims." -Sotomayor in Liu

New York Law 62(12) specifically authorizes the AG to seek restitution.

WW

 

[Arlette]

The day trump dies from natural causes will be one of the greatest days in American history. Celebrated for generations to come.

Trump's death would even be celebrated if the cause of death were to be unnatural.

 

[Billo_Really]

The eighth amendment to the constitution forbids excessive fines and forfeitures in civil cases. The SCOTUS already ruled (9-0) on this in Timbs vs Indiana (2019). The state cannot assess excessive fines.


Trump will win on that alone.

Donald Trump Appeals $355 Million Ruling in New York Civil Fraud Case

Former President Donald Trump filed a notice of appeal Monday in the matter of the New York civil judgment finding him liable for fraudulently inflating his net worth on years of financial statements.

www.breitbart.com

The Fines are minor compared to the amount of fraud perpetrated by Trump and his cronies.

 

[Flash]

If you list your house for sale for $400K but the bank (after appraisal) said that it was worth $385 you are guilty of exactly the same crime that Trump was charged with.

Of course you are not Potatohead's political opponent so you don't have to worry about being punished. In a Banana Republic like the US has become under Potatohead political opponents of his Leftest regime are punished.

 

[WorldWatcher]

If you list your house for sale for $400K but the bank (after appraisal) said that it was worth $385 you are guilty of exactly the same crime that Trump was charged with.

Of course you are not Potatohead's political opponent so you don't have to worry about being punished. In a Banana Republic like the US has become under Potatohead political opponents of his Leftest regime are punished.

This isn't a home mortgage, this is high finance investment banking. And no, you won't be arrested for selling your house for more than the appraised value.

The securing of lower rates wasn't based on the property, the lower rates were based on FPOTUS#45 personal guarantee back by net worth. By fraudulently inflating his net work using OTHER properties he put investors and insurance companies at higher risk and lower profits.

To back up that net worth he was required to file annual legal documents called "Statements of Financial Condition" as to his worth.

WW

 

[john doe 101]

If you list your house for sale for $400K but the bank (after appraisal) said that it was worth $385 you are guilty of exactly the same crime that Trump was charged with.

Of course you are not Potatohead's political opponent so you don't have to worry about being punished. In a Banana Republic like the US has become under Potatohead political opponents of his Leftest regime are punished.

LOL no you arent.

 

[para bellum]

"The purpose of disgorgement is to prevent the wrongdoer from profiting from his illegal acts, not to reimburse those who have been injured by his conduct; and there is no requirement that disgorged funds be used for investor restitution."

Receivership Sourcebook | Stenger & Stenger Attorneys at Law

Where actions are brought by the government to enjoin the continuation of conduct prohibited by law, the government frequently seeks appointment of a receiver to assist in marshalling assets on behalf of injured victims, consumers, or investors. For reasons discussed in detail in this...

www.stengerlaw.com

I would not rely on 50 year-old case law if I was you. Kokesh and Liu have placed restrictions on disgorgements that were not in place in 1978.

Those amendments do not apply.

I think you will find out they do. Also the statute of limitations in 28 USC 2462, see Kokesh.

These were not punitive damages.

The SCOTUS rejected that reasoning in Kokesh.

 

[Blaster]

Don't invest in real estate in New York.

 

[para bellum]

New York Law 62(12) specifically authorizes the AG to seek restitution.

WW

Yes, and that restitution is subject to Constitutional and statutory limitations.