It's Official: Top Psychiatrists at Yale Conference Warn That Trump Has a 'Dangerous Mental Illness'

[MisterBeale]

This is a silly thread.

In the parallel universe, the folks on the other side posting an identical thread about Hillary.

I think you made the same post in that thread as well.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Its unethical for a psychiatrist to diagnosis someone without meeting them.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Did you read the linked content?

It's not clear that what the doctors shared is a diagnosis, but to be sure, some of them see it as such, and others in the profession assert the announcement violates the APA's "Goldwater Rule." Responding to the criticism, Dr Gartner said: “This notion that you need to personally interview someone to form a diagnosis actually doesn’t make a whole lotta sense. For one thing, research shows that the psychiatric interview is the least statistical reliable way to make a diagnosis.”

• Typically, psychology professionals refrain from diagnosing public figures whom they haven’t personally interviewed, but Dr. Bandy Lee, an assistant clinical professor at the Yale School of Medicine, told the conference that the dangers Trump’s mental health present are simply too great to stay silent.
  
• “I’ve worked with some of the most dangerous people our society produces, directing mental health programmes in prisons,” James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said “I’ve worked with murderers and rapists. I can recognise dangerousness from a mile away. You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

The doctors have said that even if it is in breach of tradition ethical standards of psychiatry, it was necessary to break their silence on the matter because they feared “too much is at stake”. I certainly can agree that it's absurd for professionals to keep mum about their concerns about the "sanity" of a public official, most especially the POTUS, and that the individual leads the U.S., and not some "small fry" nation, is material. I don't know about you, I mean that in every way possible, but I for one am not keen or made to feel better about, say, our situation with N. Korea being managed by a man who in quite probably suffers from malignant NPD.

Why? Because "the President’s tendency to 'distort reality' to fit his 'personal myth of greatness', and [his penchant to] attack those who challenge him with facts, was likely to increase in a position of power." Were this the 1960s and '70s, I suspect we would not have used nearly so polite and clinically neutral term as "malignant NPD" to describe Trump's behavior/mindset. He'd have been called a "megalomaniac."

In any case and no matter the terminology, as with any other professionals who are expert in their field, I surely prefer they sound the alarm than that they keep mum and just let "whatever happens happen." Ethical rules do not exist to nor should be used to squelch genuine concern over what an expert legitimately sees as a material risk to millions, if not billions. I'm sure APA ethical guidelines would be closely adhered to were it you or I who is the subject of the doctors' concern.

 

[ScienceRocks]

35 psychiatrists this week gathered at a conference at Yale to sound the alarm on what they believe is President Donald Trump’s “dangerous mental illness.”

Per The Independent, the psychiatrists met at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday to talk about Donald Trump’s mental health, which they warned was frighteningly unstable.

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” said Dr. John Gartner, a practicing psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School and who has in the past warned Trump is a “psychiatric Frankenstein monster.”

Gartner and other psychiatrists at the conference argued that Trump suffers from a particularly malignant case of pathological narcissism, which makes him a danger to the country and the world.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner explained. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

Dr. James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said that Trump’s erratic behavior has similarly disturbed him — despite the fact that he has lots of experience working with violent convicted criminals.

“I’ve worked with murderers and rapists, I can recognize dangerousness from a mile away,” he said. “You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

Rest here: It's Official: Top Psychiatrists at Yale Conference Warn That Trump Has a 'Dangerous Mental Illness'
-----------------------------

If psychiatrists are saying this about Trump, what does it say about the people who voted for him?

The guy has problems! But that is what brings in his base as they love someone that doesn't give a fuck anymore.

 

[deannalw]

So if they BELIEVE Trump is a danger, then it's OK for these tools to diagnose him after throwing acceptable medical protocol, morals and ethics aside?

 

[Hossfly]

Its unethical for a psychiatrist to diagnosis someone without meeting them.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Did you read the linked content?

It's not clear that what the doctors shared is a diagnosis, but to be sure, some of them see it as such, and others in the profession assert the announcement violates the APA's "Goldwater Rule." Responding to the criticism, Dr Gartner said: “This notion that you need to personally interview someone to form a diagnosis actually doesn’t make a whole lotta sense. For one thing, research shows that the psychiatric interview is the least statistical reliable way to make a diagnosis.”

• Typically, psychology professionals refrain from diagnosing public figures whom they haven’t personally interviewed, but Dr. Bandy Lee, an assistant clinical professor at the Yale School of Medicine, told the conference that the dangers Trump’s mental health present are simply too great to stay silent.
  
• “I’ve worked with some of the most dangerous people our society produces, directing mental health programmes in prisons,” James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said “I’ve worked with murderers and rapists. I can recognise dangerousness from a mile away. You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

The doctors have said that even if it is in breach of tradition ethical standards of psychiatry, it was necessary to break their silence on the matter because they feared “too much is at stake”. I certainly can agree that it's absurd for professionals to keep mum about their concerns about the "sanity" of a public official, most especially the POTUS, and that the individual leads the U.S., and not some "small fry" nation, is material. I don't know about you, I mean that in every way possible, but I for one am not keen or made to feel better about, say, our situation with N. Korea being managed by a man who in quite probably suffers from malignant NPD.

Why? Because "the President’s tendency to 'distort reality' to fit his 'personal myth of greatness', and [his penchant to] attack those who challenge him with facts, was likely to increase in a position of power." Were this the 1960s and '70s, I suspect we would not have used nearly so polite and clinically neutral term as "malignant NPD" to describe Trump's behavior/mindset. He'd have been called a "megalomaniac."

In any case and no matter the terminology, as with any other professionals who are expert in their field, I surely prefer they sound the alarm than that they keep mum and just let "whatever happens happen." Ethical rules do not exist to nor should be used to squelch genuine concern over what an expert legitimately sees as a material risk to millions, if not billions. I'm sure APA ethical guidelines would be closely adhered to were it you or I who is the subject of the doctors' concern.

​

 

[usmbguest5318]

I'm very curious about the political leanings of these "professionals" that came together to make these dire warnings about the POTUS.

What does a professional assessment based, as much as is possible, on medical diagnostic models have to do with one's political leanings?

For some strange reason, some people think that science professionals cannot disaggregate their personal political views from their practice of sound scientific inquiry and analysis. I as a business professional, for example, am quite capable of examining Trump's tax and economic proposals and determining whether they will positively or negatively affect my personal fortunes, as well as how. That goes for my clients too. What I think in that regard has nothing to do with my personal position regarding those same policies and what I think of their value to the nation as a whole.

Social and natural scientists can do the same with regard to their areas of expertise.

What does a professional assessment based, as much as is possible, on medical diagnostic models have to do with one's political leanings?
Oh, please don't play Pollyanna on me, Xelor. You certainly know what that question was getting at, and I am suspecting the same. The Left has left reason well behind in some cases. Trump's foibles (rich quarry that they are) and missteps have been magnified by a Left that truly is blinded to reality by its own hate. Everyone here (except the OP, apparently) knows how I feel about the guy, but I refuse to let it take me down the path of pure hysterical witch burning paranoia. If he's dangerous, I hope he will be stopped. If he's just your run of the mill narcissist sexist asshole, the country's gonna have to live with their decision for four years.

• Are you genuinely intimating that Trump's behavior and mental state does not disconcert you?
• Are you genuinely intimating that you'd prefer professionals who are best able to legitimately warn of the man's being a "megalomaniac" refrain from doing so?

Oh, please don't play Pollyanna on me, Xelor. You certainly know what that question was getting at, and I am suspecting the same.

Excuse me? I know what the other member asked and I know that the correlation between one's political leanings and one's professional judgment is just that, a correlation, but not necessarily, or even probably, a causal one.

If he's just your run of the mill narcissist sexist asshole, the country's gonna have to live with their decision for four years.

Yes, well, there's little that's "run of the mill" about Trump. Among other things, he's POTUS, and that he is is the reason for concern.

If he's just your run of the mill narcissist sexist asshole, the country's gonna have to live with their decision for four years.

There's reasonable basis to wonder, particularly given the animus between the U.S. government and those of N. Korea, Russia and China.

I would agree with you were Trump to submit to psychiatric analysis and be diagnosed formally as not suffering from NPD.

 

[Wry Catcher]

35 psychiatrists this week gathered at a conference at Yale to sound the alarm on what they believe is President Donald Trump’s “dangerous mental illness.”

Per The Independent, the psychiatrists met at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday to talk about Donald Trump’s mental health, which they warned was frighteningly unstable.

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” said Dr. John Gartner, a practicing psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School and who has in the past warned Trump is a “psychiatric Frankenstein monster.”

Gartner and other psychiatrists at the conference argued that Trump suffers from a particularly malignant case of pathological narcissism, which makes him a danger to the country and the world.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner explained. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

Dr. James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said that Trump’s erratic behavior has similarly disturbed him — despite the fact that he has lots of experience working with violent convicted criminals.

“I’ve worked with murderers and rapists, I can recognize dangerousness from a mile away,” he said. “You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

Rest here: It's Official: Top Psychiatrists at Yale Conference Warn That Trump Has a 'Dangerous Mental Illness'
-----------------------------

If psychiatrists are saying this about Trump, what does it say about the people who voted for him?

Duplicate thread from yesterday when the general consensus was the nut doctors were just as loony as a mental patient. Who else would wear wool suits and overcoats in August in Georgia?

Is there a rebuttal within this ad hominem?

 

[deannalw]

A few years back I read a very interesting article on the high percentages of sociopaths in politics. It's a lot higher than average joes on the street

 

[SYTFE]

So if they BELIEVE Trump is a danger, then it's OK for these tools to diagnose him after throwing acceptable medical protocol, morals and ethics aside?

Yeah, the nerve. Why didn't they consult with some know-nothing alt-right troll on USMB first?

 

[LaDexter]

The adjective "top" for every scientist is all about whether the given scientist pushes the current leftist BS as :"science."

 

[Derelict_Drvr]

This Diagnosis would fit about 75% of the congregants of the far (extreme?) alt-left loons out there (and in here).

 

[OldLady]

I'm very curious about the political leanings of these "professionals" that came together to make these dire warnings about the POTUS.

What does a professional assessment based, as much as is possible, on medical diagnostic models have to do with one's political leanings?

For some strange reason, some people think that science professionals cannot disaggregate their personal political views from their practice of sound scientific inquiry and analysis. I as a business professional, for example, am quite capable of examining Trump's tax and economic proposals and determining whether they will positively or negatively affect my personal fortunes, as well as how. That goes for my clients too. What I think in that regard has nothing to do with my personal position regarding those same policies and what I think of their value to the nation as a whole.

Social and natural scientists can do the same with regard to their areas of expertise.

What does a professional assessment based, as much as is possible, on medical diagnostic models have to do with one's political leanings?
Oh, please don't play Pollyanna on me, Xelor. You certainly know what that question was getting at, and I am suspecting the same. The Left has left reason well behind in some cases. Trump's foibles (rich quarry that they are) and missteps have been magnified by a Left that truly is blinded to reality by its own hate. Everyone here (except the OP, apparently) knows how I feel about the guy, but I refuse to let it take me down the path of pure hysterical witch burning paranoia. If he's dangerous, I hope he will be stopped. If he's just your run of the mill narcissist sexist asshole, the country's gonna have to live with their decision for four years.

• Are you genuinely intimating that Trump's behavior and mental state does not disconcert you?
• Are you genuinely intimating that you'd prefer professionals who are best able to legitimately warn of the man's being a "megalomaniac" refrain from doing so?

Oh, please don't play Pollyanna on me, Xelor. You certainly know what that question was getting at, and I am suspecting the same.

Excuse me? I know what the other member asked and I know that the correlation between one's political leanings and one's professional judgment is just that, a correlation, but not necessarily, or even probably, a causal one.

If he's just your run of the mill narcissist sexist asshole, the country's gonna have to live with their decision for four years.

Yes, well, there's little that's "run of the mill" about Trump. Among other things, he's POTUS, and that he is is the reason for concern.

If he's just your run of the mill narcissist sexist asshole, the country's gonna have to live with their decision for four years.

There's reasonable basis to wonder, particularly given the animus between the U.S. government and those of N. Korea, Russia and China.

I would agree with you were Trump to submit to psychiatric analysis and be diagnosed formally as not suffering from NPD.

Are you genuinely intimating that Trump's behavior and mental state does not disconcert you?
His policies certainly bother me, from the Travel Ban(s) to defunding international abortions, to the stupid Wall, but I do not pretend to know his mental state.

Are you genuinely intimating that you'd prefer professionals who are best able to legitimately warn of the man's being a "megalomaniac" refrain from doing so?
No. I'd prefer the professionals follow the guidelines of their profession when "diagnosing" a "patient."

I know what the other member asked and I know that the correlation between one's political leanings and one's professional judgment is just that, a correlation, but not necessarily, or even probably, a causal one.
I believe these professionals find Trump a distasteful hooligan and are embarrassed and pissed off that he's President, same as I do. They found a fancy way of saying it. That's what I believe. Now if this were a team from Walter Reed Hospital who had been observing Trump and talking to Trump etc., I would feel very differently about it. But they would not have announced it this way to the nation, either. If there is truly a danger, the folks in D.C. WILL handle it. Maybe they are. Maybe he already has minders. Who knows.

I would agree with you were Trump to submit to psychiatric analysis and be diagnosed formally as not suffering from NPD
You and I have discussed this before. NPD is NOT in itself a danger, not even when one is President.

 

[IsaacNewton]

35 psychiatrists this week gathered at a conference at Yale to sound the alarm on what they believe is President Donald Trump’s “dangerous mental illness.”

Per The Independent, the psychiatrists met at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday to talk about Donald Trump’s mental health, which they warned was frighteningly unstable.

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” said Dr. John Gartner, a practicing psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School and who has in the past warned Trump is a “psychiatric Frankenstein monster.”

Gartner and other psychiatrists at the conference argued that Trump suffers from a particularly malignant case of pathological narcissism, which makes him a danger to the country and the world.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner explained. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

Dr. James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said that Trump’s erratic behavior has similarly disturbed him — despite the fact that he has lots of experience working with violent convicted criminals.

“I’ve worked with murderers and rapists, I can recognize dangerousness from a mile away,” he said. “You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

Rest here: It's Official: Top Psychiatrists at Yale Conference Warn That Trump Has a 'Dangerous Mental Illness'
-----------------------------

If psychiatrists are saying this about Trump, what does it say about the people who voted for him?

The people that voted for him are a herd of sheep that have been conditioned to see everything in life as 'our team against their team', and if the sheep's team wins they couldn't care less who they win with.

The rest of the world knows as do the majority of Americans that the human race is at it's most precarious moment since Adolph took power. It is no exaggeration, that is the gravity of where we're at. Trump is dangerously mentally ill, officially.

 

[OldLady]

35 psychiatrists this week gathered at a conference at Yale to sound the alarm on what they believe is President Donald Trump’s “dangerous mental illness.”

Per The Independent, the psychiatrists met at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday to talk about Donald Trump’s mental health, which they warned was frighteningly unstable.

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” said Dr. John Gartner, a practicing psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School and who has in the past warned Trump is a “psychiatric Frankenstein monster.”

Gartner and other psychiatrists at the conference argued that Trump suffers from a particularly malignant case of pathological narcissism, which makes him a danger to the country and the world.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner explained. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

Dr. James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said that Trump’s erratic behavior has similarly disturbed him — despite the fact that he has lots of experience working with violent convicted criminals.

“I’ve worked with murderers and rapists, I can recognize dangerousness from a mile away,” he said. “You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

Rest here: It's Official: Top Psychiatrists at Yale Conference Warn That Trump Has a 'Dangerous Mental Illness'
-----------------------------

If psychiatrists are saying this about Trump, what does it say about the people who voted for him?

The people that voted for him are a herd of sheep that have been conditioned to see everything in life as 'our team against their team', and if the sheep's team wins they couldn't care less who they win with.

The rest of the world knows as do the majority of Americans that the human race is at it's most precarious moment since Adolph took power. It is no exaggeration, that is the gravity of where we're at. Trump is dangerously mentally ill, officially.

I'm 100% in agreement with everything you said, save the last sentence.

 

[LaDexter]

Face it, whether it is global warming or global cooling, the left wants you defined as "mentally ill" if you are not buying all the bullshit the left wants you to believe...

 

[usmbguest5318]

His policies certainly bother me

His mental state concerns me more than do his policies, what precious few of them he's been "kind enough" to share in detail. Though I don't think his articulated policies and themes are what's best for the nation, I can live with them quite well. A fair number of the ones I can empirically analyze -- economic and tax -- are going to suit me far better than they will the majority of Americans. I won't "cry" because those policies be implemented -- far from it; laughing my way to the bank so hard it brings tears to my eyes is more likely what I'll do -- but I don't think they should be.

I do not pretend to know his mental state.

I don't either, but then I'm not trained to in psychology so as to be able to observe behaviors and form a reasoned and reasonable initial impression that's likely to be accurate upon further and more detailed examination. I can do that in my own field, but not psychology/psychiatry.

I'd prefer the professionals follow the guidelines of their profession when "diagnosing" a "patient."

All professions guidelines that are meant to be following nearly all of the time. There are exceptions, however, for which the interests of risk mitigation mandates that one ignore the guidelines. The risk that the U.S., lo the "free world," is being led (de facto) by a man having NPD is such an exception that it warrants ignoring the guidelines.

Guidelines exist to do precisely that, guide, principals. They do not exist to obviate and prohibit a principal's exercise of his or her professional judgment. That very ethical dilemma is one criminal attorneys face, perhaps even routinely. (I'm told criminal attorneys don't actually or always ask their clients whether they committed the crime with which they've been charged.) While the specifics differ, the ethical dilemma is substantively the same ones Gartner and the other doctors faced in deciding whether to speak up or keep quiet about their concerns.

Now if this were a team from Walter Reed Hospital who had been observing Trump and talking to Trump etc., I would feel very differently about it. But they would not have announced it this way to the nation, either. If there is truly a danger, the folks in D.C. WILL handle it.

I suspect the way it'd be announced were a team at Walter Reed to make formally such a diagnosis is that we'd simply see provisions of the 25th Amendment being implemented. I think that would come as quite a shock were it to happen without being presaged by more casually offered concerns expressed as Gartner et al have done.

You and I have discussed this before. NPD is NOT in itself a danger, not even when one is President.

We have, and we disagree on that point.

• http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/sith_colloquium_asimow_michael.pdf
  
• Why Malignant Narcissists are Dangerous
  
• Fear and decision-making in narcissistic personality disorder
  
• Understanding and Exploring Narcissism: Impact on Students and College Campuses
  
• Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Relations with distress and functional impairment
  
  These results suggest that it is accurate to think of NPD as a pathological personality style that predicts impaired functioning across a variety of life domains.

Assuming the "Yale Doctors" are right, I don't think there's anything just about your, my or anyone else enduring the the NPD-related madness of Donald Trump. Given the power he has a POTUS, we are without question exposed to risk of suffering more than just the impact of being ticked off that is he is POTUS.

 

[debbiedowner]

35 psychiatrists this week gathered at a conference at Yale to sound the alarm on what they believe is President Donald Trump’s “dangerous mental illness.”

Per The Independent, the psychiatrists met at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday to talk about Donald Trump’s mental health, which they warned was frighteningly unstable.

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” said Dr. John Gartner, a practicing psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School and who has in the past warned Trump is a “psychiatric Frankenstein monster.”

Gartner and other psychiatrists at the conference argued that Trump suffers from a particularly malignant case of pathological narcissism, which makes him a danger to the country and the world.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner explained. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

Dr. James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said that Trump’s erratic behavior has similarly disturbed him — despite the fact that he has lots of experience working with violent convicted criminals.

“I’ve worked with murderers and rapists, I can recognize dangerousness from a mile away,” he said. “You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

Rest here: It's Official: Top Psychiatrists at Yale Conference Warn That Trump Has a 'Dangerous Mental Illness'
-----------------------------

If psychiatrists are saying this about Trump, what does it say about the people who voted for him?

It took all these psychiatrists to determine that? Hell anyone who has ever slept at a holiday inn express can diagnose he his a fruit loop.

 

[Mac1958]

35 psychiatrists this week gathered at a conference at Yale to sound the alarm on what they believe is President Donald Trump’s “dangerous mental illness.”

Per The Independent, the psychiatrists met at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday to talk about Donald Trump’s mental health, which they warned was frighteningly unstable.

“We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump’s dangerous mental illness,” said Dr. John Gartner, a practicing psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School and who has in the past warned Trump is a “psychiatric Frankenstein monster.”

Gartner and other psychiatrists at the conference argued that Trump suffers from a particularly malignant case of pathological narcissism, which makes him a danger to the country and the world.

“Worse than just being a liar or a narcissist, in addition he is paranoid, delusional and grandiose thinking and he proved that to the country the first day he was president,” Gartner explained. “If Donald Trump really believes he had the largest crowd size in history, that’s delusional.”

Dr. James Gilligan, a psychiatrist and professor at New York University, said that Trump’s erratic behavior has similarly disturbed him — despite the fact that he has lots of experience working with violent convicted criminals.

“I’ve worked with murderers and rapists, I can recognize dangerousness from a mile away,” he said. “You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.”

Rest here: It's Official: Top Psychiatrists at Yale Conference Warn That Trump Has a 'Dangerous Mental Illness'
-----------------------------

If psychiatrists are saying this about Trump, what does it say about the people who voted for him?

I don't know. Narcissist, sure. Dangerous? Unstable? The stuff that comes out of his mouth seems to me to be more the bullshit that is employed by any good used car salesman. Don't take anything he says seriously/or at least be ready for him to change his mind.
Now, what do these psychiatrists plan to do about it now that they've diagnosed him from afar? Seems political to me. If they were really worried they should have gone to someone in D.C. who could do something about it. Removing the President isn't done by public opinion.

Dangerous, yes. Unstable, yes. Did you recently move to conservatard land where you spend all of your time making excuses for the guy? He's incited violence at his rallies, FFS. He's been incredibly reckless with foreign policy already, and he hasn't even gotten warmed up yet.

Of course these psychiatrists are "doing something." They're warning the country that we've elected a dangerous mad man. What else can they do? Start a petition?

It's impossible to take anything at face value any more, since politics has so infected every part of our society.

I suspect there's plenty of political motivation here. The problem is, even if they're right, it just sounds like more noise.

That's what happens when a society can no longer communicate on an honest, civil level.
.

 

[deannalw]

So if they BELIEVE Trump is a danger, then it's OK for these tools to diagnose him after throwing acceptable medical protocol, morals and ethics aside?

Yeah, the nerve. Why didn't they consult with some know-nothing alt-right troll on USMB first?

I know, right?

 

[OldLady]

His policies certainly bother me

His mental state concerns me more than do his policies, what precious few of them he's been "kind enough" to share in detail. Though I don't think his articulated policies and themes are what's best for the nation, I can live with them quite well. A fair number of the ones I can empirically analyze -- economic and tax -- are going to suit me far better than they will the majority of Americans. I won't "cry" because those policies be implemented -- far from it; laughing my way to the bank so hard it brings tears to my eyes is more likely what I'll do -- but I don't think they should be.

I do not pretend to know his mental state.

I don't either, but then I'm not trained to in psychology so as to be able to observe behaviors and form a reasoned and reasonable initial impression that's likely to be accurate upon further and more detailed examination. I can do that in my own field, but not psychology/psychiatry.

I'd prefer the professionals follow the guidelines of their profession when "diagnosing" a "patient."

All professions guidelines that are meant to be following nearly all of the time. There are exceptions, however, for which the interests of risk mitigation mandates that one ignore the guidelines. The risk that the U.S., lo the "free world," is being led (de facto) by a man having NPD is such an exception that it warrants ignoring the guidelines.

Guidelines exist to do precisely that, guide, principals. They do not exist to obviate and prohibit a principal's exercise of his or her professional judgment. That very ethical dilemma is one criminal attorneys face, perhaps even routinely. (I'm told criminal attorneys don't actually or always ask their clients whether they committed the crime with which they've been charged.) While the specifics differ, the ethical dilemma is substantively the same ones Gartner and the other doctors faced in deciding whether to speak up or keep quiet about their concerns.

Now if this were a team from Walter Reed Hospital who had been observing Trump and talking to Trump etc., I would feel very differently about it. But they would not have announced it this way to the nation, either. If there is truly a danger, the folks in D.C. WILL handle it.

I suspect the way it'd be announced were a team at Walter Reed to make formally such a diagnosis is that we'd simply see provisions of the 25th Amendment being implemented. I think that would come as quite a shock were it to happen without being presaged by more casually offered concerns expressed as Gartner et al have done.

You and I have discussed this before. NPD is NOT in itself a danger, not even when one is President.

We have, and we disagree on that point.

• http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/sith_colloquium_asimow_michael.pdf
  
• Why Malignant Narcissists are Dangerous
  
• Fear and decision-making in narcissistic personality disorder
  
• Understanding and Exploring Narcissism: Impact on Students and College Campuses
  
• Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Relations with distress and functional impairment
  
  These results suggest that it is accurate to think of NPD as a pathological personality style that predicts impaired functioning across a variety of life domains.

Assuming the "Yale Doctors" are right, I don't think there's anything just about your, my or anyone else enduring the the NPD-related madness of Donald Trump. Given the power he has a POTUS, we are without question exposed to risk of suffering more than just the impact of being ticked off that is he is POTUS.

I'm giving you the last word on this, first because I have to go and second because I will surely not change your mind. I don't KNOW if he's dangerous, and I hope to God he's not.