Italian hostage

[Johnney]

Yes by all means let's read her full story in the Communist Manifesto!!!!!!



In several interviews to Italian and foreign media outlets, Ms Sgrena said she believes US troops might have deliberately opened fire on the car.

Ms Sgrena, who works for communist paper Il Manifesto and has always been an outspoken critic of the war, argues that US authorities strongly oppose the kind of negotiations conducted to free her.

"I cannot rule out that I was the real target," she told Rome-based daily La Repubblica.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4324445.stm

Noooo agenda here!!

holy shit talk about a big head! as if we even thought about her inthe first place

 

[Bonnie]

holy shit talk about a big head! as if we even thought about her inthe first place

LOL Well Johnny they like to think the world revolves around their paranoia and ideals.

 

[sitarro]

As i said on page 3 of this thread , if the Americans wanted her dead , there would not be a trace of the car or her . . . for that matter , she could have been recaptured and beheaded in a staged execution . That would have been much more valuable for America's cause than what was actually done (defence of a checkpoint from a possible car bomb by the heroic American liberators of Iraqi citizens).
This woman is a communist , Democracy is communism's worst threat , Iraq's war has been about bringing Democracy to the Middle East. . . it doesn't take a NASA scientist to figure out whose agenda is being pushed here . I still wouldn't doubt that the entire kidnapping was staged in order to get money delivered to the terrorist insurgents . :finger: her.

 

[krisy]

As i said on page 3 of this thread , if the Americans wanted her dead , there would not be a trace of the car or her . . . for that matter , she could have been recaptured and beheaded in a staged execution . That would have been much more valuable for America's cause than what was actually done (defence of a checkpoint from a possible car bomb by the heroic American liberators of Iraqi citizens).
This woman is a communist , Democracy is communism's worst threat , Iraq's war has been about bringing Democracy to the Middle East. . . it doesn't take a NASA scientist to figure out whose agenda is being pushed here . I still wouldn't doubt that the entire kidnapping was staged in order to get money delivered to the terrorist insurgents . :finger: her.

Yes,because if it was set up,or ransom was payed for her,then all the more reason to believe the car they were driving was speeding in order to get by U.S. soldiers quickly. We shouldn't even have to defend them,everyone in the media assumes it is their fault-as usual. If they did pay ransom,I guess it is their business,but if they didn't tell the U.S. what was going on,forget what they have to say.

 

[padisha emperor]

Sorry for beeing late.

first :

1.Dont ever place French wooses on a par with their British counterparts.

2.What makes you think the French could do a better job.Rememeber those troops in Iraq have been in a combat situation for months which is better than any training in the world.

3.French troops are Gay.

For the 1 and 3, no comment, you know my thoughts.

For the 2 : I believe that the US troops who shot were young soldiers, in Iraq since a few time, so the "combat situation" is not what you think, guy.

And :

The US HQ knew that an italian convoy was driven on this way. A US officer was waiting it at the Airport, so.... What the fuck ? Why did these soldiers a such thing ? bad communication between the US HQ and the troops stationned in the city.

And : what about the US sergeant who kill in 48 hours 40 civilians at a checkpoint ?
What was he doing ? Trying to win a "live counter strike game" ? well, nice score, but a little bit stupid, no ? Killing 40 civilians in only 2 days, it is not an error, it is warcrime.

I know that the US HQ, maybe the Pentagon, punished him, but anyway, it would not make back the dead civilians.

This sergeant's problerm is like the italian convoy shot, it show the same problems.

 

[sitarro]

Sorry for beeing late.

first :



For the 1 and 3, no comment, you know my thoughts.

For the 2 : I believe that the US troops who shot were young soldiers, in Iraq since a few time, so the "combat situation" is not what you think, guy.

And :

The US HQ knew that an italian convoy was driven on this way. A US officer was waiting it at the Airport, so.... What the fuck ? Why did these soldiers a such thing ? bad communication between the US HQ and the troops stationned in the city.

And : what about the US sergeant who kill in 48 hours 40 civilians at a checkpoint ?
What was he doing ? Trying to win a "live counter strike game" ? well, nice score, but a little bit stupid, no ? Killing 40 civilians in only 2 days, it is not an error, it is warcrime.

I know that the US HQ, maybe the Pentagon, punished him, but anyway, it would not make back the dead civilians.

This sergeant's problerm is like the italian convoy shot, it show the same problems.

What anti American rag are you reading? Where do you get these stories or the details ? Why would you believe an admitted communist (America Hater) over U.S. soldiers ? If the Americans wanted her dead , why isn't she? Why would the Americans care if the Italian communist want to set themselves up for continued kidnappings , except that it is an obvious attempt to funnel money to the anti American , anti Iraqi democracy asswipes . What is the name of the fictional sergeant who supposedly gunned down 40 civilians in 2 days? Where did you get this story ? What would anyone in France know about the war in Iraq? I know you can tell us about moldy cheese and smelly armpits but what do you know about a country(The United States) that voluntarily goes across the world to liberate 2 countries ? How about the conduct of France in The Ivory Coast?

 

[Johnney]

What anti American rag are you reading? Where do you get these stories or the details ? Why would you believe an admitted communist (America Hater) over U.S. soldiers ? If the Americans wanted her dead , why isn't she? Why would the Americans care if the Italian communist want to set themselves up for continued kidnappings , except that it is an obvious attempt to funnel money to the anti American , anti Iraqi democracy asswipes . What is the name of the fictional sergeant who supposedly gunned down 40 civilians in 2 days? Where did you get this story ? What would anyone in France know about the war in Iraq? I know you can tell us about moldy cheese and smelly armpits but what do you know about a country(The United States) that voluntarily goes across the world to liberate 2 countries ? How about the conduct of France in The Ivory Coast?

do yo even have to ask this one?
lol

 

[padisha emperor]

Sitarro, i never meant and thought that the US soldiers shot on purpose on the italian convoy. I think thay did an enormaous mistake, but too enormous to be forgiven.
I only say that a professionnal army of a coutry like USA should care about the things when this army has a peace job.

The US soldiers shot on the convoy. Sorry if you believed that I thouht the US shot because it was an hostage. I only give some things who shows that some details are disturbing, to not excuse the shooting soldiers. I don't think they shot becasue she wasa commie, but it is again a "collateral dammage"...

For the sergeant, sorry, don't have a name, but I heard that the Pentagon had punish him - it is the less they could do - .

If I pist such things, it is only to show my suprise about the US troops's behavior in Iraq.
They would do bad blue helmets.
Nothing else.

So don't take too quickly your conclusions.

Don't event talk about crimes with the clown that you have leading your country your arrogant asshole

I'm not arrogant, dear.

And even if I don't approve all the decisions of Jacques Chirac, hye didn't committed crimes, so what the fuck ?


Why, when somebody post here some thing against some US behaviors or decisions, this person is taken as "anti american" ?

You remind me some Chinese In heard ; they said that there were no problem in their country, and when somedbody tried to have a discussion with them about sensible subjects, these Chinses insulted their contradictors.

 

[krisy]

Sitarro, i never meant and thought that the US soldiers shot on purpose on the italian convoy. I think thay did an enormaous mistake, but too enormous to be forgiven.
I only say that a professionnal army of a coutry like USA should care about the things when this army has a peace job.

The US soldiers shot on the convoy. Sorry if you believed that I thouht the US shot because it was an hostage. I only give some things who shows that some details are disturbing, to not excuse the shooting soldiers. I don't think they shot becasue she wasa commie, but it is again a "collateral dammage"...

For the sergeant, sorry, don't have a name, but I heard that the Pentagon had punish him - it is the less they could do - .

If I pist such things, it is only to show my suprise about the US troops's behavior in Iraq.
They would do bad blue helmets.
Nothing else.

So don't take too quickly your conclusions.




I'm not arrogant, dear.

And even if I don't approve all the decisions of Jacques Chirac, hye didn't committed crimes, so what the fuck ?


Why, when somebody post here some thing against some US behaviors or decisions, this person is taken as "anti american" ?

You remind me some Chinese In heard ; they said that there were no problem in their country, and when somedbody tried to have a discussion with them about sensible subjects, these Chinses insulted their contradictors.

padisha,you ,along with the rest of the world assume it was the U.S.'s fault. Has an investigation been completed-NO!!!I am sick and tired of the world always ASSuming it is the U.S.'s fault. How do you know who is telling the truth? And what kind of behavior are you talking about when you say you are suprised at the behavior of U.S. troops in Iraq?

 

[Avatar4321]

Maybe i just dont know enough about the story, but i have to ask this.

Since where are people who get held hostage heros?

 

[sitarro]

Again I have to ask , if the United States cared enough to want that communist c**t dead , why is she speaking to the world right now ? If the soldiers rained gunfire on that car why is she and her driver still breathing the stale air in Europe ? This dumb ass wanted to go into a war zone to report to her paper , she is the one that is responcible for what happened to her .
I still haven't heard her say one word about her captors , you know the ones that threatened to rip off her head .

 

[no1tovote4]

Again I have to ask , if the United States cared enough to want that communist c**t dead , why is she speaking to the world right now ? If the soldiers rained gunfire on that car why is she and her driver still breathing the stale air in Europe ? This dumb ass wanted to go into a war zone to report to her paper , she is the one that is responcible for what happened to her .
I still haven't heard her say one word about her captors , you know the ones that threatened to rip off her head .

Often people begin to associate with their kidnappers in hostage situations, they have a hard time after leaving seeing them as the criminals. Give it time, about the same time when the world forgets the lady, and she will realize that the bad guys were not the US soldiers. Too bad she will never admit it, don't want to say anything good about the US if you can help it ya know.

She wanted to find something bad to report about the US. We accidentally supplied it at the end of her adventure.

Clearly if we had actually wanted her dead, they would all be dead. The whole idea of not complying with a US roadblock is inane, then to attempt to blame it no the US as if we had done that on purpose is clear idiocy.

 

[Bonnie]

padisha emperor

And even if I don't approve all the decisions of Jacques Chirac, hye didn't committed crimes, so what the fuck ?

http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/17341/view?viewtype

French President Jacques Chirac is a pivotal figure on the international scene, whose views on Iraq are of vital concern. Those views are not driven simply by geopolitics, however. The factors that shape his thinking include a long, complex and sometimes mysterious relationship with Saddam Hussein. The relationship is not secret, but it is no longer as well known as it once was -- nor is it well known outside of France. It is not insignificant in understanding Chirac's view of Iraq.

Analysis

The relationship dates back to late 1974, when then-French Premier Chirac traveled to Baghdad and met the No. 2 man in the Iraqi government, Vice President Saddam Hussein. During that visit, Chirac and Hussein conducted negotiations on a range of issues, the most important of these being Iraq's purchase of nuclear reactors.

In September 1975, Hussein traveled to Paris, where Chirac personally gave him a tour of a French nuclear plant. During that visit, Chirac said, “Iraq is in the process of beginning a coherent nuclear program and France wants to associate herself with that effort in the field of reactors.” France sold two reactors to Iraq, with the agreement signed during Hussein's visit. The Iraqis purchased a 70-megawatt reactor, along with six charges of 26 points of uranium enriched to 93 percent -- in other words, enough weapons-grade uranium to produce three to four nuclear devices. Baghdad also purchased a one-megawatt research reactor, and France agreed to train 600 Iraqi nuclear technicians and scientists -- the core of Iraq's nuclear capability today.

During this period, Chirac and Hussein formed what Chirac called a close personal relationship. As the New York Times put it in a 1986 report about Chirac's attempt to return to the premiership, the French official “has said many times that he is a personal friend of Saddam Hussein of Iraq.” In 1987, the Manchester Guardian Weekly quoted Chirac as saying that he was “truly fascinated by Saddam Hussein since 1974.” Whatever personal chemistry there might have been between the two leaders obviously remained in place a decade later, and clearly was not simply linked to the deals of 1974-75. Politicians and businessmen move on; they don't linger the way Chirac did.

It is unfair to tag Chirac with the rumors that have trailed him in his relations with Hussein. It is fair to say, however, that Chirac has created a circumstance for breeding rumors. The issues raised here were all well known at one time and place. When they are laid end-to-end, a mystery arises. What affair was being discussed in the letter delivered by Michel Noir? If not nuclear reactors, then what was referenced but never mentioned specifically in Chirac's letter to his “dear friend” Hussein?

Whatever the answer, it is clear that the relationship between Chirac and Hussein is long and complex, and not altogether easy to understand. That relationship does not, by itself, explain all of France's policies toward Iraq or its stance toward a war between the United States and Iraq. But at the same time, it is inconceivable that this relationship has no effect on Chirac's personal decision-making process. There is an intensity to Chirac's Iraq policy that simply may signify the remnants of an old, warm friendship gone bad, or that may have a different origin. In any case, it is a reality that cannot be ignored and that must be taken into account in understanding the French leader's behavior.

"Collateral damage" comes in all shapes and sizes

 

[no1tovote4]

Was this the story you linked to?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/846787/posts

 

[Bonnie]

Was this the story you linked to?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/846787/posts

A little different but equally as interesting.

 

[Bonnie]

Italy's Ransom
Rome adopts a policy of deliberately aiding terrorism.

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 12:01 a.m. EST

Americans join Italians in mourning the death of Italian secret service officer Nicola Calipari, whose funeral was held in Rome on Monday. Agent Calipari died a hero last Friday, reportedly using his body to shield freed journalist/hostage Giuliana Sgrena from gunfire as their car approached American troops near Baghdad Airport. So perhaps Ms. Sgrena will also shed a tear for the Americans and Iraqis who will die because of the ransom that was paid for her release.

So far, all the world's moral anger has focused on the claim that U.S. soldiers were reckless, or even tried to "assassinate" her, as Ms. Sgrena's newspaper, the communist Il Manifesto, put it. But her claims in some interviews that her car was moving slowly and cautiously are contradicted by, well, Ms. Sgrena.

Her own account of the fateful journey, published Sunday, has them traveling so fast they were "losing control" and laughing about what an irony it would be if they had an accident after all that had happened. In other words, they probably looked like a suicide car bomber to a scared American solider who had to make a split-second decision at night. (The military declines to give figures on car bombs specifically for operational security reasons. But "explosive devices" of various kinds are by far the leading killers in Iraq, accounting for close to half of all deaths from hostile fire, and nearly twice as many as gunshot wounds.)

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006392

 

[Merlin1047]

Damn, I get sick of listening to you Euroweenies whine.

They didn't need to shoot.

They should have shot the tires.

They should have shot the engine.

Give me a break - here's a "they should have" that applies to the Italians in the vehicle - THEY SHOULD HAVE STOPPED.

What you two snivelers seem to forget is that these soldiers are in a WAR ZONE where people try to kill them on a regular and recurring basis. If there is a car coming at you which refuses to obey repeated commands to stop, you have to assume that it's loaded with explosives and the occupants are intent on taking you out.

Given that situation, you don't worry about shooting the tires, or the engine, or the damn bumper stickers. You shoot the asshole driving the thing. And if it turns out that there were no weapons and no explosives, then you have to ask yourself why they refused to stop. Either way, they're just as dead and either way that's tough cookies. Our troops have the right to defend themselves and they don't have to take unnecessary risks with their lives aiming for the tires of a vehicle coming at them.

Seems to me that the Italians approaching a military checkpoint should be smart enough to comply with commands to stop. So make all the excuses you want, but the troops did the right thing considering they are in Iraq and not in downtown Topeka Kansas.

 

[sitarro]

Damn, I get sick of listening to you Euroweenies whine.

They didn't need to shoot.

They should have shot the tires.

They should have shot the engine.

Give me a break - here's a "they should have" that applies to the Italians in the vehicle - THEY SHOULD HAVE STOPPED.

What you two snivelers seem to forget is that these soldiers are in a WAR ZONE where people try to kill them on a regular and recurring basis. If there is a car coming at you which refuses to obey repeated commands to stop, you have to assume that it's loaded with explosives and the occupants are intent on taking you out.

Given that situation, you don't worry about shooting the tires, or the engine, or the damn bumper stickers. You shoot the asshole driving the thing. And if it turns out that there were no weapons and no explosives, then you have to ask yourself why they refused to stop. Either way, they're just as dead and either way that's tough cookies. Our troops have the right to defend themselves and they don't have to take unnecessary risks with their lives aiming for the tires of a vehicle coming at them.

Seems to me that the Italians approaching a military checkpoint should be smart enough to comply with commands to stop. So make all the excuses you want, but the troops did the right thing considering they are in Iraq and not in downtown Topeka Kansas.

Exactly Merlin ,
Even when it appears that our guys have shot up civilians it is usually much more complex than that .The lowlifes that we are fighting are known to take families hostage and force the father and mother to drive car bombs into check points . I will back anything our troops feel a need to do , I'm not there ,they are . My life isn't on the line , their's is . I want them to come back the way they left to the hero's welcome they deserve . . .as soon as possible . They deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Bonnie ,
That Opinion Journal piece sure said a mouthful . . . thanks . I hadn't heard about what she had said about the speeding so fast that they almost lost control .

 

[padisha emperor]

padisha,you ,along with the rest of the world assume it was the U.S.'s fault. Has an investigation been completed-NO!!!I am sick and tired of the world always ASSuming it is the U.S.'s fault. How do you know who is telling the truth? And what kind of behavior are you talking about when you say you are suprised at the behavior of U.S. troops in Iraq?

The death of Nicola Calipari sis the US's fault. yes.
It won't be the fault of the Brits, of the French of the Chinese.... Assume your acts. (here, your means USA )

What kind of behavior ?
As I said, The Us amry is a professional army, maybe not the first in quality, but really good. Except for some young soldiers training, but that's not the point here.
As a professional and #1 world army, the US army should have a better behavior when it does a peace operation.
That's what i meant.

This dumb ass wanted to go into a war zone to report to her paper , she is the one that is responcible for what happened to her .

Sitarro, I disagree with you here.

She is not a dumb ass because she decided to go to Iraq.
She is a journalist, so, her job is to go in the sensible places of the wolrd to report the news.
If people follow your mind, and don't go in the troubles places, the news would be : "nothing new, everything is good in the best wolrd...."
A journalist HAVE TO be in the good place, at the good time. Iraq is the good place, now, because there are a lot of things here.
Would you critisize the war reporter, like the WWII journalists, or photographers, like Robert Cappa ?

She is responsible of her life, of course, but not of Nicola Calipari's one. But US soldiers are responsible of his death.

but the troops did the right thing considering they are in Iraq and not in downtown Topeka Kansas.

Merlin, sure, Iraq is more dangerous than USA - although... - .

But how can you explain the fact that the US troops kill more civilians that other army in peace operation ? Like the blue helmet in ex-Yugoslavja ?

If the same situation would happen between Iraqis troops shooting on US convoy, you'ld scream "it is scandalous !!!"

 

[krisy]

The death of Nicola Calipari sis the US's fault. yes.
It won't be the fault of the Brits, of the French of the Chinese.... Assume your acts. (here, your means USA )

What kind of behavior ?
As I said, The Us amry is a professional army, maybe not the first in quality, but really good. Except for some young soldiers training, but that's not the point here.
As a professional and #1 world army, the US army should have a better behavior when it does a peace operation.
That's what i meant.



Sitarro, I disagree with you here.

She is not a dumb ass because she decided to go to Iraq.
She is a journalist, so, her job is to go in the sensible places of the wolrd to report the news.
If people follow your mind, and don't go in the troubles places, the news would be : "nothing new, everything is good in the best wolrd...."
A journalist HAVE TO be in the good place, at the good time. Iraq is the good place, now, because there are a lot of things here.
Would you critisize the war reporter, like the WWII journalists, or photographers, like Robert Cappa ?

She is responsible of her life, of course, but not of Nicola Calipari's one. But US soldiers are responsible of his death.



Merlin, sure, Iraq is more dangerous than USA - although... - .

But how can you explain the fact that the US troops kill more civilians that other army in peace operation ? Like the blue helmet in ex-Yugoslavja ?

If the same situation would happen between Iraqis troops shooting on US convoy, you'ld scream "it is scandalous !!!"

padisha,I still do not accept this was the U.S.'s fault-the media has made it appear that way. It's all in how they FIRST report it-that is what sticks in your head.

Also,comparing the journalists today with the journalists of WW2 is not really going to work. The journalists back then were more pro troops and pro country and knew that those men were fighting for their right to free speech.