it seemed like a good idea at the time! rights for the mentally ill

[strollingbones]

depending on your age: there was a time in this country when the mentally ill were removed from the streets and locked up in asylums...(the name says it all)...then there was a civil rights movement for the mentally ill to stop the forced sterilazations and things like that...

unfortunately, instead of allowing improvement of care...it allowed no care...you cant force someone to be medicated now...so the result is many homeless who are truly mentally ill..nor only are some a threat to themselves but many times they are a threat to others...sometimes they are not a threat to anyone. my point being...it seemed like a good idea at the time and has totally backfired with the dumping of mentally ill by families and society.

 

[Diuretic]

De-institutionalisation and community treatment were good ideas, it's just that the timing was bad. They were promulgated at about the time that various neo-liberal politicians got into power and they saw it as a means of reducing costs, so people were sent from institutions into the community without sufficient resources for support.

Anyway, after many years of being cynical about him I'm starting to appreciate the ideas of Thomas Szasz about mental health. I do believe that institutions should only be used for the most damaged individuals, many can be treated successfully in the community - if sufficient resources exist. But I'm not a mental health expert so my comments are only those of a layperson.

 

[jillian]

I agree in part. But they were also, at the same time, given the right to decline treatment and medication.

That multiplied the problems... so I'm not sure the problem was so much lack of treatment and support or a refusal to realize that people who aren't competent shouldn't be presumed to be able to make decisions about their mental health. Unfortunately, the only means to force treatment is if the mentally person is considered a danger to him/herself or others.

 

[dilloduck]

Breakdown of families didn't help alot either. Families used to take care of their own nuts or at least hide em. There also far to many lay persons who are aghast at the treatments available to the mentally ill but provide no alternative.
Basically we have the right to act as crazy as we want to be until a judge deems you "dangerous". This why several posters are with us today as opposed to being properly medicated or institutionalized.

 

[Diuretic]

I agree in part. But they were also, at the same time, given the right to decline treatment and medication.

That multiplied the problems... so I'm not sure the problem was so much lack of treatment and support or a refusal to realize that people who aren't competent shouldn't be presumed to be able to make decisions about their mental health. Unfortunately, the only means to force treatment is if the mentally person is considered a danger to him/herself or others.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the right to refuse treatment. That seems to be a mistake. Are mental health laws in the US state-based? In my jurisdiction a legally qualified medical practitioner can order detention and examination and from there treatment orders can be applied if necessary, there has been no discretion to the mental health consumer to refuse treatment where necessary. Having said that though there are always cases where someone feels better and stops taking their medication.....

 

[Political Junky]

Reagan closed mental hospitals and put the mentally ill on the streets.

 

[jillian]

I agree in part. But they were also, at the same time, given the right to decline treatment and medication.

That multiplied the problems... so I'm not sure the problem was so much lack of treatment and support or a refusal to realize that people who aren't competent shouldn't be presumed to be able to make decisions about their mental health. Unfortunately, the only means to force treatment is if the mentally person is considered a danger to him/herself or others.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the right to refuse treatment. That seems to be a mistake. Are mental health laws in the US state-based? In my jurisdiction a legally qualified medical practitioner can order detention and examination and from there treatment orders can be applied if necessary, there has been no discretion to the mental health consumer to refuse treatment where necessary. Having said that though there are always cases where someone feels better and stops taking their medication.....

If you take a look at this abstract, you'll see that, at least here in NYC, they found a link between mental illness and homelessness. Homeless people were picked up and if believed to be mentally ill, were treated and/or institutionalized. Advocates for the homeless portrayed this as a "medicalization of a socioeconomic problem.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

I seem to remember Ed Koch being very angered by this position.

And I do believe these things are determined on a state by state basis.

 

[del]

Reagan closed mental hospitals and put the mentally ill on the streets.

then why did the number of publicly owned psychiatric hospitals increase between 1980 and 1990?

Medicaid Financing of State and County Psychiatric Hospitals - Figure I.1, National Mental Health Information Center

 

[Big Black Dog]

We have a nationally funded insane asylum. It's called Congress.

 

[AllieBaba]

They shut down the hospitals and kicked the patients out.

One of the hospitals was in Pendleton (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest).

 

[AllieBaba]

And that is why now grouphomes are a huge growth industry....you can no longer place diminished capacity loons in with the non-diminished capacity loons, no matter how fucking dangerous they are. You also can't lodge loons with a criminal hx with the regular harmless loons, and you can't jail someone who's a loon.

So we have a whole bunch of fucking INSANE, DANGEROUS people roaming around without being monitored, treated OR protected. They put us at risk, and they're also at risk.

Good job mainstreaming those guys into society, jackoffs.

 

[AllieBaba]

And they're having kids, too. And raising them under the radar in our highly mobile society..and those kids are amazingly, just as fucked up or more than their insane, abusive parents! Go figure!

 

[Political Junky]

Reagan closed mental hospitals and put the mentally ill on the streets.

then why did the number of publicly owned psychiatric hospitals increase between 1980 and 1990?

Medicaid Financing of State and County Psychiatric Hospitals - Figure I.1, National Mental Health Information Center

He did it in California when he was governor.
He also signed a very liberal abortion bill back then too, before his kitchen cabinet took charge.

 

[KittenKoder]

I agree in part. But they were also, at the same time, given the right to decline treatment and medication.

That multiplied the problems... so I'm not sure the problem was so much lack of treatment and support or a refusal to realize that people who aren't competent shouldn't be presumed to be able to make decisions about their mental health. Unfortunately, the only means to force treatment is if the mentally person is considered a danger to him/herself or others.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the right to refuse treatment. That seems to be a mistake. Are mental health laws in the US state-based? In my jurisdiction a legally qualified medical practitioner can order detention and examination and from there treatment orders can be applied if necessary, there has been no discretion to the mental health consumer to refuse treatment where necessary. Having said that though there are always cases where someone feels better and stops taking their medication.....

We have a three day minimum, and most hospitals only keep them that long then send the out on the streets. Our government here shut down all the mental hospitals and now most make their residence in the shelters sadly.

 

[del]

Reagan closed mental hospitals and put the mentally ill on the streets.

then why did the number of publicly owned psychiatric hospitals increase between 1980 and 1990?

Medicaid Financing of State and County Psychiatric Hospitals - Figure I.1, National Mental Health Information Center

He did it in California when he was governor.
He also signed a very liberal abortion bill back then too, before his kitchen cabinet took charge.

well, in that case, so did dukakis when he was gov here. deinstitutionalization has been a trend in mental health since the early 1900's.

the problem is that there is an irreducible number of people who really can't take care of themselves, and they don't wear signs.

 

[dilloduck]

then why did the number of publicly owned psychiatric hospitals increase between 1980 and 1990?

Medicaid Financing of State and County Psychiatric Hospitals - Figure I.1, National Mental Health Information Center

He did it in California when he was governor.
He also signed a very liberal abortion bill back then too, before his kitchen cabinet took charge.

well, in that case, so did dukakis when he was gov here. deinstitutionalization has been a trend in mental health since the early 1900's.

the problem is that there is an irreducible number of people who really can't take care of themselves, and they don't wear signs.

and a hell of a lot of em ain't even crazy

 

[del]

He did it in California when he was governor.
He also signed a very liberal abortion bill back then too, before his kitchen cabinet took charge.

well, in that case, so did dukakis when he was gov here. deinstitutionalization has been a trend in mental health since the early 1900's.

the problem is that there is an irreducible number of people who really can't take care of themselves, and they don't wear signs.

and a hell of a lot of em ain't even crazy

true enough, but some of them are.

 

[Diuretic]

I agree in part. But they were also, at the same time, given the right to decline treatment and medication.

That multiplied the problems... so I'm not sure the problem was so much lack of treatment and support or a refusal to realize that people who aren't competent shouldn't be presumed to be able to make decisions about their mental health. Unfortunately, the only means to force treatment is if the mentally person is considered a danger to him/herself or others.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the right to refuse treatment. That seems to be a mistake. Are mental health laws in the US state-based? In my jurisdiction a legally qualified medical practitioner can order detention and examination and from there treatment orders can be applied if necessary, there has been no discretion to the mental health consumer to refuse treatment where necessary. Having said that though there are always cases where someone feels better and stops taking their medication.....

We have a three day minimum, and most hospitals only keep them that long then send the out on the streets. Our government here shut down all the mental hospitals and now most make their residence in the shelters sadly.

Three days, 21 days (twice) and 12 months (which can be renewed if required) are available here but each step requires greater authorisation.

Yes, some homeless people are mentally ill but mental illness isn't necessarily going to lead to homelessness, where I am anyway. The state government offers supported accommodation for mentally ill people who can be managed through the community treatment process.

 

[Diuretic]

He did it in California when he was governor.
He also signed a very liberal abortion bill back then too, before his kitchen cabinet took charge.

well, in that case, so did dukakis when he was gov here. deinstitutionalization has been a trend in mental health since the early 1900's.

the problem is that there is an irreducible number of people who really can't take care of themselves, and they don't wear signs.

and a hell of a lot of em ain't even crazy

If a government can solve pressing political problems by labelling individuals as "mentally ill" they will. The scary bit is that it isn't/wasn't only done in totalitarian societies.

 

[Old Rocks]

They shut down the hospitals and kicked the patients out.

One of the hospitals was in Pendleton (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest).

My wife was working in Steilacom, in Washington when that happened. Some of these people died simply because they did not have the mental capacity to recognize danger or even the fact that they were getting sick.