Israel's Lies

RoccoR

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RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Remember, A/RES/181(II) • 29 NOV 47 • Future Government of Palestine was a recommendation adopted by the UN General Assembly.
Then there is the question you always duck.

There are 15 steps. Which ones were implemented?
(RESPONSE)

1. Completed as was made possible.

2. The CHAIRMAN stated that, until the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory Power alone was responsible for the maintenance of law and order in Palestine. A militia could not be established until the termination of the Mandate. A/AC.21/SR.23 28 January 1948

3. Nullified by the outbreak of hostilities.

4. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)

5. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)
Terminated on the outbreak of hostilities.

6. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC).
Altered on the outbreak of hostilities and the final resting place of the FEBA.

7. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)
Terminated on the outbreak of hostilities.

8. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

9. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency. AHC had no territory. Arab League established an Occupation or Military Government.

10. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC). Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League. Amended by the Armistice.

11. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)

12. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

13. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

14. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

15. Completed by UNPC.

Then there is: Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations
(RESPONSE)

1. I am not aware of any disinfranchised Arab Palestinians, after 15 May 48.

2. Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations

(a) The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) became bound by all the international agreements and conventions and did not renounce any agreements made prior to 15 May.​
(b) The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) did not need to make a refferal or claim to the International Court of Justice in accordance with the provisions of the Statute of the Court.​

3. The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) assumed all Financial obligations incurred by the Mandatory.

(COMMENT)

Within the practical limits within the territory in conflict, to the best of my knowledge, Israel has attempted to treat all the habitual residence, on the Israeli side of the Armistice Lines, with the dignity accorded any other citizen, pursuant to the Basic Law of Israel. I know no difference or distinctions made that are not covered by the Basic Law or adjudicated by the courts.
1. Freedom to worship,

2. No discrimination,

3. Equal protection of the laws.

4. The family law and personal status of the various minorities and their religious interests, including endowments, are respected.

5. No laws were passed to obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of religious or charitable bodies, operating legally under the Rule of Law.

6. Israel attempts to ensure adequate primary and secondary education for the Arab and Jewish minority, respectively, in its own language and its cultural traditions.

7. No restriction freedoms of speech, except those that incite violence or endanger pubic order.

8. No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State.

Now I AM not an Israeli citizen. So there may be some aspect I am not aware of. I don't pretend to cite this issues under the guise of a Member of the Bar. I am not practicing law. But as a layman, I will defend the country highest on the Human Development Index for a thousand miles in any inland direction.
SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
 

Hollie

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◈ The independence process was accepted by the Jewish Agency (JA); but, rejected by the Arab Higher Committee (AHC). The JA did meet the Charter expectations and the Montevideo Convention,
Where is Israel's defined territory?

Link?
The territory over which it holds sovereignty. The territory delineated by borders defined by treaty.

What territory is held as sovereign by either of the Islamic terrorist enclaves?

link?
The territory over which it holds sovereignty. The territory delineated by borders defined by treaty.
What treaty?

Link?
The treaties With Egypt and Lebanon should get you started. Links have been supplied countless times.

What territory is held as sovereign by either of the Islamic terrorist enclaves?

Link?
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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Within the practical limits within the territory in conflict, to the best of my knowledge, Israel has attempted to treat all the habitual residence, on the Israeli side of the Armistice Lines, with the dignity accorded any other citizen,
Habitual residents are all of the people who normally lived there before the war.
 
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P F Tinmore

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2. The CHAIRMAN stated that, until the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory Power alone was responsible for the maintenance of law and order in Palestine. A militia could not be established until the termination of the Mandate. A/AC.21/SR.23 28 January 1948
Israel's military expelled about 300,000 Palestinians before the Mandate left.
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Remember, A/RES/181(II) • 29 NOV 47 • Future Government of Palestine was a recommendation adopted by the UN General Assembly.
Then there is the question you always duck.

There are 15 steps. Which ones were implemented?
(RESPONSE)

1. Completed as was made possible.

2. The CHAIRMAN stated that, until the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory Power alone was responsible for the maintenance of law and order in Palestine. A militia could not be established until the termination of the Mandate. A/AC.21/SR.23 28 January 1948

3. Nullified by the outbreak of hostilities.

4. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)

5. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)
Terminated on the outbreak of hostilities.

6. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC).
Altered on the outbreak of hostilities and the final resting place of the FEBA.

7. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)
Terminated on the outbreak of hostilities.

8. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

9. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency. AHC had no territory. Arab League established an Occupation or Military Government.

10. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC). Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League. Amended by the Armistice.

11. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)

12. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

13. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

14. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

15. Completed by UNPC.

Then there is: Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations
(RESPONSE)

1. I am not aware of any disinfranchised Arab Palestinians, after 15 May 48.

2. Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations

(a) The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) became bound by all the international agreements and conventions and did not renounce any agreements made prior to 15 May.​
(b) The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) did not need to make a refferal or claim to the International Court of Justice in accordance with the provisions of the Statute of the Court.​

3. The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) assumed all Financial obligations incurred by the Mandatory.

(COMMENT)

Within the practical limits within the territory in conflict, to the best of my knowledge, Israel has attempted to treat all the habitual residence, on the Israeli side of the Armistice Lines, with the dignity accorded any other citizen, pursuant to the Basic Law of Israel. I know no difference or distinctions made that are not covered by the Basic Law or adjudicated by the courts.
1. Freedom to worship,

2. No discrimination,

3. Equal protection of the laws.

4. The family law and personal status of the various minorities and their religious interests, including endowments, are respected.

5. No laws were passed to obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of religious or charitable bodies, operating legally under the Rule of Law.

6. Israel attempts to ensure adequate primary and secondary education for the Arab and Jewish minority, respectively, in its own language and its cultural traditions.

7. No restriction freedoms of speech, except those that incite violence or endanger pubic order.

8. No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State.

Now I AM not an Israeli citizen. So there may be some aspect I am not aware of. I don't pretend to cite this issues under the guise of a Member of the Bar. I am not practicing law. But as a layman, I will defend the country highest on the Human Development Index for a thousand miles in any inland direction.
SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
There are 15 steps. Which ones were implemented?\

Virtually none.
 

Hollie

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RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Remember, A/RES/181(II) • 29 NOV 47 • Future Government of Palestine was a recommendation adopted by the UN General Assembly.
Then there is the question you always duck.

There are 15 steps. Which ones were implemented?
(RESPONSE)

1. Completed as was made possible.

2. The CHAIRMAN stated that, until the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory Power alone was responsible for the maintenance of law and order in Palestine. A militia could not be established until the termination of the Mandate. A/AC.21/SR.23 28 January 1948

3. Nullified by the outbreak of hostilities.

4. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)

5. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)
Terminated on the outbreak of hostilities.

6. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC).
Altered on the outbreak of hostilities and the final resting place of the FEBA.

7. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)
Terminated on the outbreak of hostilities.

8. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

9. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency. AHC had no territory. Arab League established an Occupation or Military Government.

10. Accepted and was in process by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC). Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League. Amended by the Armistice.

11. Accepted and completed by Jewish Agency - Rejected by Arab Higher Committee (AHC)

12. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

13. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

14. Altered on the outbreak of hostilities IDF vs Arab League.

15. Completed by UNPC.

Then there is: Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations
(RESPONSE)

1. I am not aware of any disinfranchised Arab Palestinians, after 15 May 48.

2. Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations

(a) The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) became bound by all the international agreements and conventions and did not renounce any agreements made prior to 15 May.​
(b) The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) did not need to make a refferal or claim to the International Court of Justice in accordance with the provisions of the Statute of the Court.​

3. The State of Israel (to the best of my knowledge) assumed all Financial obligations incurred by the Mandatory.

(COMMENT)

Within the practical limits within the territory in conflict, to the best of my knowledge, Israel has attempted to treat all the habitual residence, on the Israeli side of the Armistice Lines, with the dignity accorded any other citizen, pursuant to the Basic Law of Israel. I know no difference or distinctions made that are not covered by the Basic Law or adjudicated by the courts.
1. Freedom to worship,

2. No discrimination,

3. Equal protection of the laws.

4. The family law and personal status of the various minorities and their religious interests, including endowments, are respected.

5. No laws were passed to obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of religious or charitable bodies, operating legally under the Rule of Law.

6. Israel attempts to ensure adequate primary and secondary education for the Arab and Jewish minority, respectively, in its own language and its cultural traditions.

7. No restriction freedoms of speech, except those that incite violence or endanger pubic order.

8. No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State.

Now I AM not an Israeli citizen. So there may be some aspect I am not aware of. I don't pretend to cite this issues under the guise of a Member of the Bar. I am not practicing law. But as a layman, I will defend the country highest on the Human Development Index for a thousand miles in any inland direction.
SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
There are 15 steps. Which ones were implemented?\

Virtually none.
Indeed, you offer nothing to support your claim.
 

toastman

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Tinmore, you said Palestine became a state . Can you please elaborate, with a link as to when that took place?
I have many times but my posts were too complicated for you and they went over your head.

Here is just one,
That silly YouTube video does nothing to support your claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented the “State of Pallyland”.
I never said it did. It was just one treaty in the process.
What process?

Link?

Why do you continuously duck the question regarding ''how did the Treaty of Lausanne invent the country of Pally'land''?
He also ducked two of my questions: a link to Palestine becoming a state when he said they did and a link to Palestine’s alleged international borders ....
Uhh, there is not a single mention of Palestine alleged international borders . You know why ? Because they don’t exist.
 

toastman

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◈ The independence process was accepted by the Jewish Agency (JA); but, rejected by the Arab Higher Committee (AHC). The JA did meet the Charter expectations and the Montevideo Convention,
Where is Israel's defined territory?

Link?
The territory over which it holds sovereignty. The territory delineated by borders defined by treaty.

What territory is held as sovereign by either of the Islamic terrorist enclaves?

link?
The territory over which it holds sovereignty. The territory delineated by borders defined by treaty.
What treaty?

Link?
The treaties With Egypt and Lebanon should get you started. Links have been supplied countless times.

What territory is held as sovereign by either of the Islamic terrorist enclaves?

Link?
Arguing with Tinmore is like arguing with a little child. There’s just no point to it. He can’t accept the truth .
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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Tinmore, you said Palestine became a state . Can you please elaborate, with a link as to when that took place?
I have many times but my posts were too complicated for you and they went over your head.

Here is just one,
That silly YouTube video does nothing to support your claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented the “State of Pallyland”.
I never said it did. It was just one treaty in the process.
What process?

Link?

Why do you continuously duck the question regarding ''how did the Treaty of Lausanne invent the country of Pally'land''?
He also ducked two of my questions: a link to Palestine becoming a state when he said they did and a link to Palestine’s alleged international borders ....
Uhh, there is not a single mention of Palestine alleged international borders . You know why ? Because they don’t exist.
First you have to read it. Did you try that?

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.


Upon its detachment from the Ottomans, the territory of Palestine became distinct from its neighboring countries.6In fact, this separation began between Palestine and the newly created Arab ‘states’: Trans-Jordan (as it was called), Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.7 Soon thereafter, Palestine’s frontiers acquired permanent recognition through bilateral agreements with its neighbors. Following the international legal framework that had been established by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne ending the Ottoman nominal/official sovereignty over the Arab Middle East, each of the four countries instituted a separate nationality for its population through domestic legislation. Nationalities in these countries have since then become well established.

7Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were Ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held Palestinian nationality.
 

Hollie

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Tinmore, you said Palestine became a state . Can you please elaborate, with a link as to when that took place?
I have many times but my posts were too complicated for you and they went over your head.

Here is just one,
That silly YouTube video does nothing to support your claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented the “State of Pallyland”.
I never said it did. It was just one treaty in the process.
What process?

Link?

Why do you continuously duck the question regarding ''how did the Treaty of Lausanne invent the country of Pally'land''?
He also ducked two of my questions: a link to Palestine becoming a state when he said they did and a link to Palestine’s alleged international borders ....
Uhh, there is not a single mention of Palestine alleged international borders . You know why ? Because they don’t exist.
First you have to read it. Did you try that?

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.


Upon its detachment from the Ottomans, the territory of Palestine became distinct from its neighboring countries.6In fact, this separation began between Palestine and the newly created Arab ‘states’: Trans-Jordan (as it was called), Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.7 Soon thereafter, Palestine’s frontiers acquired permanent recognition through bilateral agreements with its neighbors. Following the international legal framework that had been established by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne ending the Ottoman nominal/official sovereignty over the Arab Middle East, each of the four countries instituted a separate nationality for its population through domestic legislation. Nationalities in these countries have since then become well established.

7Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were Ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held Palestinian nationality.
False.
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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Tinmore, you said Palestine became a state . Can you please elaborate, with a link as to when that took place?
I have many times but my posts were too complicated for you and they went over your head.

Here is just one,
That silly YouTube video does nothing to support your claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented the “State of Pallyland”.
I never said it did. It was just one treaty in the process.
What process?

Link?

Why do you continuously duck the question regarding ''how did the Treaty of Lausanne invent the country of Pally'land''?
He also ducked two of my questions: a link to Palestine becoming a state when he said they did and a link to Palestine’s alleged international borders ....
Uhh, there is not a single mention of Palestine alleged international borders . You know why ? Because they don’t exist.
First you have to read it. Did you try that?

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.


Upon its detachment from the Ottomans, the territory of Palestine became distinct from its neighboring countries.6In fact, this separation began between Palestine and the newly created Arab ‘states’: Trans-Jordan (as it was called), Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.7 Soon thereafter, Palestine’s frontiers acquired permanent recognition through bilateral agreements with its neighbors. Following the international legal framework that had been established by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne ending the Ottoman nominal/official sovereignty over the Arab Middle East, each of the four countries instituted a separate nationality for its population through domestic legislation. Nationalities in these countries have since then become well established.

7Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were Ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held Palestinian nationality.
False.
Link?
 

RoccoR

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RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

An Opposing View... IF you know all this, THEN jump right to the end "COMMENT" section and the conclusion.

BLUF: The matter of citizenship and nationality of the Arab Palestinians were handled in accordance with international law.

BTW: I have read the applicable and non-applicable Conventions. I'm just wondering if you have?

First you have to read it. Did you try that?

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.
(REFERENCE)

What does a “succession of states” means: the replacement of one State by another in the responsibility for the international relations of territory. In our discussion, that would be the Government of Palestine (GoP). The GoP was established by the Mandatory selected by the Allied Powers to handle the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by Mandatory. Allied Powers had selected the British Government as the Mandatory for Palestine; have full powers of legislation and of administration.

Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees • Resolution 2198 ( XXI ) (1951 - 1967)

The limits of the Palestine Order in Council applied to the territories to which the Mandate for Palestineapplies, hereinafter described as Palestine.

(PREFACE)

First, the case of "nationality." Convention on Refugee Status does not apply to those:

Who are at present receiving from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance. In this case: the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).
Who is recognized by the competent authorities of the country in which he has taken residence as having the rights and obligations which are attached to the possession of the nationality of that country. In this case Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and President of the State of Palestine (AKA: Palestine). (In the first case, the sole representative of the Palestinian People, and in the second place, the Head of State.)

The provisions of the Convention on Refugee Status shall not apply to any person with respect to whom there are serious reasons for considering that:

(a) has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes;
(b) has committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of refuge prior to his admission to that country as a refugee;
(c) has been guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

The Convention on Refugee Status shall cease to apply to any person:

(a) Having lost his nationality, he has voluntarily re-acquired it;
(b) Has acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality;

The Convention on Succession of States applies only to the effects of a succession of States occurring in conformity with international law and, in particular, the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations.

For the purposes of this Palestine Legislative Council Election Order (1922) and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:

(a) Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
(b) All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.

Unification of the Two Banks

Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. All automatically became citizens of Jordan, a right that had first been offered in December 1949 to all Palestinians who wished to claim it. Although the Arab League opposed this plan, and no other Arab government followed Jordan’s lead, the Hashemite Kingdom offered the possibility of normal life for many people who would have otherwise remained stateless refugees.
State of Palestine

The current Government (of the State of Palestine) was sworn in by the President of the State of Palestine, Mr. Mahmoud Abbas, on 2 June 2014.

Article 72003 Amended Basic Law The Amended Basic Law

Palestinian citizenship shall be regulated by law.
For the purposes of this law, a person shall be considered Palestinian:
a. If he/she was born in Palestine with borders defined in the British Mandate era, or was entitled to acquire the Palestinian nationality under the applicable laws.
b. If he/she was born in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, including Holy Jerusalem.
c. If one of his/her ancestors falls under the application of paragraph (1) above irrespective of where he/she was born.
d. If he/she is a spouse of a Palestinian as defined above.
e. If he/she has not acquired Israeli nationality.

Article 28 2003 Amended Basic Law The Amended Basic Law

No Palestinian may be deported from the homeland, prevented or prohibited from returning to or leaving it, deprived of his citizenship, or handed over to any foreign entity.

(COMMENT)

As you can see, the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians has not been constant. It has been changed. Currently, all neither the Convention of Secession nor Refugees applies because by Palestinian Basic Law, because they are covered under the PLO and State Government as nationals and citizens. They were "citizens of Jordan" at one time. Then they were once citizens of the Mandate GoP. However, you unpack the entangled mess, it is clear today that the Arab Palestinians forfeited their citizenship rights of previous regimes in favor of citizenship with Mahmoud Abbas.

And there you go...
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Most Respectfully,
R
 
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P F Tinmore

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What does a “succession of states” means: the replacement of one State by another in the responsibility for the international relations of territory. In our discussion, that would be the Government of Palestine (GoP).
The Mandates did not have title and rights. They did not acquire sovereignty over the territory they administered.

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.
 

toastman

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Tinmore, you said Palestine became a state . Can you please elaborate, with a link as to when that took place?
I have many times but my posts were too complicated for you and they went over your head.

Here is just one,
That silly YouTube video does nothing to support your claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented the “State of Pallyland”.
I never said it did. It was just one treaty in the process.
What process?

Link?

Why do you continuously duck the question regarding ''how did the Treaty of Lausanne invent the country of Pally'land''?
He also ducked two of my questions: a link to Palestine becoming a state when he said they did and a link to Palestine’s alleged international borders ....
Uhh, there is not a single mention of Palestine alleged international borders . You know why ? Because they don’t exist.
First you have to read it. Did you try that?

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.


Upon its detachment from the Ottomans, the territory of Palestine became distinct from its neighboring countries.6In fact, this separation began between Palestine and the newly created Arab ‘states’: Trans-Jordan (as it was called), Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.7 Soon thereafter, Palestine’s frontiers acquired permanent recognition through bilateral agreements with its neighbors. Following the international legal framework that had been established by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne ending the Ottoman nominal/official sovereignty over the Arab Middle East, each of the four countries instituted a separate nationality for its population through domestic legislation. Nationalities in these countries have since then become well established.

7Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were Ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held Palestinian nationality.
Yup, I read it. Nowhere does it mention Palestine’s international borders and what they are. They don’t exist . Palestine does not have any borders. Palestine was never a state .
 
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P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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Tinmore, you said Palestine became a state . Can you please elaborate, with a link as to when that took place?
I have many times but my posts were too complicated for you and they went over your head.

Here is just one,
That silly YouTube video does nothing to support your claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented the “State of Pallyland”.
I never said it did. It was just one treaty in the process.
What process?

Link?

Why do you continuously duck the question regarding ''how did the Treaty of Lausanne invent the country of Pally'land''?
He also ducked two of my questions: a link to Palestine becoming a state when he said they did and a link to Palestine’s alleged international borders ....
Uhh, there is not a single mention of Palestine alleged international borders . You know why ? Because they don’t exist.
First you have to read it. Did you try that?

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.


Upon its detachment from the Ottomans, the territory of Palestine became distinct from its neighboring countries.6In fact, this separation began between Palestine and the newly created Arab ‘states’: Trans-Jordan (as it was called), Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.7 Soon thereafter, Palestine’s frontiers acquired permanent recognition through bilateral agreements with its neighbors. Following the international legal framework that had been established by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne ending the Ottoman nominal/official sovereignty over the Arab Middle East, each of the four countries instituted a separate nationality for its population through domestic legislation. Nationalities in these countries have since then become well established.

7Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were Ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held Palestinian nationality.
Yup, I read it. Nowhere does it mention Palestine’s international borders and what they are. They don’t exist . Palestine does not have any borders. Palestine was never a state .
It was a long article. I posted a small portion. Reading further would answer your questions. That is why there is a link.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You did not ask a question.

The UN Armistice Agreements (with Jordan and Egypt) were in force only until the permanent Peace Treaties were established. Articles XII(2) in both agreements state: "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
OK, but that ducks my question. (Nothing new here.)
(COMMENT)

So, the agreed boundaries are where by treaty? And with whom the Arab Palestinians make the treaty with?

The application of the concepts pertaining to "nationality" and "citizenship" in Israel is a matter for the Israelis to apply. Not you.
I know it's not me. However, Israel must conform with the rules of nationality and state succession as laid out in international law. I have posted that many times. You need to keep up.
(COMMENT)

The sovereign authority establishes nationality and citizenship law. The law of state succession does not have an application here. There was no state, other than Israel, that was established. There was no State of Palestine (until December 2012).

Any Arab Palestinian claiming citizenship (the right to enter Israeli Sovereign Territory) under Article 12,
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) (1976), must be able to prove they hold Israeli Citizenship under Israeli Law.

Article 12 CCPR:
1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.​
2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.​
3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.​
4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.​
Article 2, UN Charter:​
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
I have not seen a line of 70 y/o Arab Palestinians making a claim before the Israeli Court on the matter of Citizenship and entry. Note, that many will have trouble upon entry if they have any association with any organization that poses a threat to national security, public order, public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others.

It is also important to remember that the Arab Palestinians have, on several occasions, rejected the processes by which self-governing institutions are established.

(QUESTION)

Please cite me the particular claim that an Arab Palestinian has made on citizenship matter. Please cite me the clause under International Law that the Israelis are violating.

(ISSUE)

IF you have a specific question, THEN ask it. Otherwise, knock-off the claim that a question was ducked.

I will be happy to meet any challenge you present in a clear and distinct manner.

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
It is the same question that you have been ducking for years.

P F Tinmore said: In the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, Palestine is mentioned many times. Israel is not mentioned. Palestine's international borders are referenced. No borders are mentioned.for Israel. Two times the Negev is called Palestine.

Now, how can Israel claim borders on that land?
In the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, Palestine is mentioned many times. Israel is not mentioned. Palestine's international borders are referenced. No borders are mentioned.for Israel.

1601137146737.png


Liar!!!
 

RoccoR

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RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I thought you said you knew all this!

What does a “succession of states” means: the replacement of one State by another in the responsibility for the international relations of territory. In our discussion, that would be the Government of Palestine (GoP).
The Mandates did not have title and rights. They did not acquire sovereignty over the territory they administered.

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.
(COMMENT)

First: I did not mention "sovereignty." So, get off that path. You are just trying to confuse the discussion group.

Second: Pay close attention...
Because it dawned on me → that you do not know what "successor state" actually means.

Vienna Convention on Succession of States in respect of treaties said:
Article 2(1b)
succession of states” means the replacement of one State by another in the responsibility for the international relations of territory;"
..............................................................................................compared to →
Mandate for Palestine said:
Article 12
The Mandatory shall be entrusted with the control of the foreign relations of Palestine and the right to issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers. He shall also be entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine when outside its territorial limit.

SIGIL PAIR.png
Most Respectfully,
R
 

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