Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[Shusha]

More Israeli bullshit.

The Zionist's settler colonial project was the initial aggression. That aggression continues today.

Once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews is licence to attack and kill them.

Let's put this in perspective. It's like saying the US has a right to kill Arab Muslims for immigrating to the US.

 

[P F Tinmore]

More Israeli bullshit.

The Zionist's settler colonial project was the initial aggression. That aggression continues today.

Once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews is licence to attack and kill them.

Let's put this in perspective. It's like saying the US has a right to kill Arab Muslims for immigrating to the US.

Not so. It was the settler colonial project.

 

[Shusha]

More Israeli bullshit.

The Zionist's settler colonial project was the initial aggression. That aggression continues today.

Once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews is licence to attack and kill them.

Let's put this in perspective. It's like saying the US has a right to kill Arab Muslims for immigrating to the US.

Not so. It was the settler colonial project.

Which does nothing to refute my post.

The presence of Jews is an "aggression" is what you said. You are saying the presence of Jews alone is justification for war and terrorism. And while I agree wholeheartedly that this is the Palestinian mentality, it's morally vile to believe it's okay to kill people for moving in next door.

Shall we go after Chinatown and Little Italy next?

 

[MJB12741]

What legal rights do Palestinian squatters have to remain living in Israel?

 

[montelatici]

More Israeli bullshit.

The Zionist's settler colonial project was the initial aggression. That aggression continues today.

Once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews is licence to attack and kill them.

Let's put this in perspective. It's like saying the US has a right to kill Arab Muslims for immigrating to the US.

Not so. It was the settler colonial project.

Which does nothing to refute my post.

The presence of Jews is an "aggression" is what you said. You are saying the presence of Jews alone is justification for war and terrorism. And while I agree wholeheartedly that this is the Palestinian mentality, it's morally vile to believe it's okay to kill people for moving in next door.

Shall we go after Chinatown and Little Italy next?

Only if Little Italy and Chinatown newcomers seek to set up their own state for Italians and Chinese and invite Italians and Chinese from all over the world to immigrate to the Little Italy and Chinatown while expelling the native residents to make room for them.

 

[Shusha]

So, monte, the presence of Jews is not the problem, in your mind. It's the Jewish desire for sovereighty and self-determination in their ancestral homeland that is the problem. The Jewish people must not be permitted to have self-determination in their ancient homeland.

 

[P F Tinmore]

More Israeli bullshit.

The Zionist's settler colonial project was the initial aggression. That aggression continues today.

Once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews is licence to attack and kill them.

Let's put this in perspective. It's like saying the US has a right to kill Arab Muslims for immigrating to the US.

Not so. It was the settler colonial project.

Which does nothing to refute my post.

The presence of Jews is an "aggression" is what you said. You are saying the presence of Jews alone is justification for war and terrorism. And while I agree wholeheartedly that this is the Palestinian mentality, it's morally vile to believe it's okay to kill people for moving in next door.

Shall we go after Chinatown and Little Italy next?

Not so. Settler colonialism is aggressive by its very nature.

 

[montelatici]

So, monte, the presence of Jews is not the problem, in your mind. It's the Jewish desire for sovereighty and self-determination in their ancestral homeland that is the problem. The Jewish people must not be permitted to have self-determination in their ancient homeland.

No, the desire for self-determination is fine. But, Palestine is not the ancestral homeland of the Zionists.The Zionists were Europeans, an average Christian Southern European has as much ancestry from the Middle East as European Jews, usually more. If these European descendants of European converts to Judaism wanted to establish a religious state, they could have established it somewhere else, without going to a place populated with 700,000 Muslims and Christians, with the intention of expelling them to make room for Europeans with little to no ancestral ties to the area.

 

[Shusha]

No, the desire for self-determination is fine. But, Palestine is not the ancestral homeland of the Zionists. ...

Don't be ridiculous. "Palestine" is the ancestral home of ALL the Jewish people. The argument that there are "true" Jews and "synthetic" ones is just a bit silly. No one applies that sort of rule to any other group of people.

Further, removing a people from a land does not remove their ancestry from them. The Palestinians living in Chile are still, Palestinians, aren't they? And their children are Palestinian, and their grandchildren, right?

But let's leave that aside for the moment. Did the Jewish people living in Palestine have the right to self-determination?

 

[montelatici]

No, the desire for self-determination is fine. But, Palestine is not the ancestral homeland of the Zionists. ...

Don't be ridiculous. "Palestine" is the ancestral home of ALL the Jewish people. The argument that there are "true" Jews and "synthetic" ones is just a bit silly. No one applies that sort of rule to any other group of people.

Further, removing a people from a land does not remove their ancestry from them. The Palestinians living in Chile are still, Palestinians, aren't they? And their children are Palestinian, and their grandchildren, right?

But let's leave that aside for the moment. Did the Jewish people living in Palestine have the right to self-determination?

Palestine is the ancestral home of people who had ancestors in Palestine. Not Europeans, Eastern European, Russian, Spanish etc., whose ancestors converted to Judaism. A European, one of whose ancestor converted to Judaism does not suddenly acquire ancestors in the Middle East.

You are nuts. A convert to Roman Catholicism from Africa doesn't suddenly acquire ancestors in Rome.

 

[Shusha]

Palestine is the ancestral home of people who had ancestors in Palestine.

Over time, how can you tell that an individual does or does not belong to the people of ancestral home? ( I'm assuming you are not arguing with the idea that the Jewish ancestral home is *cough cough* Palestine.)

I mean, how can you tell that the Palestinians in Chile are Palestinian? How do you propose to measure that, over time?

 

[montelatici]

Palestine is the ancestral home of people who had ancestors in Palestine.

Over time, how can you tell that an individual does or does not belong to the people of ancestral home? ( I'm assuming you are not arguing with the idea that the Jewish ancestral home is *cough cough* Palestine.)

I mean, how can you tell that the Palestinians in Chile are Palestinian? How do you propose to measure that, over time?

DNA demonstrates where one's ancestors come from. The Muslim and Christian Palestinian DNA markers are conclusively from the Levant. The European Jews DNA markers are mostly from Europe. The DNA markers of the Palestinians in Chile are the same as those of the Palestinians in Palestine. Changing religion doesn't change DNA.

"European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree"

Genes Suggest European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree

 

[Shusha]

DNA demonstrates where one's ancestors come from.

So, to be absolutely clear, you believe that measuring DNA should be the guideline for assigning sovereignty over territory of ancestral lands?

 

[MJB12741]

"And G-d shall scatter you among all the peoples from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth…" Devorim 28:64

"And G-d shall return your captivity and be merciful to you, and will return and gather you from all the nations whither G-d has scattered you." Devorim30:3

"As the natural laws are set before Me, so shall the seed of Israel never cease from being a nation before Me, forever." Yirmiyahu 31:36

 

[montelatici]

DNA demonstrates where one's ancestors come from.

So, to be absolutely clear, you believe that measuring DNA should be the guideline for assigning sovereignty over territory of ancestral lands?

No, I believe false claims of ancestry should not have been used to evict native inhabitants as happened in Palestine who actually had ancestral links to the land.

 

[montelatici]

"And G-d shall scatter you among all the peoples from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth…" Devorim 28:64

"And G-d shall return your captivity and be merciful to you, and will return and gather you from all the nations whither G-d has scattered you." Devorim30:3

"As the natural laws are set before Me, so shall the seed of Israel never cease from being a nation before Me, forever." Yirmiyahu 31:36

So, with the lack of scientific proof MJ resorts to fairy tales.

 

[Shusha]

DNA demonstrates where one's ancestors come from.

So, to be absolutely clear, you believe that measuring DNA should be the guideline for assigning sovereignty over territory of ancestral lands?

No, I believe false claims of ancestry should not have been used to evict native inhabitants as happened in Palestine who actually had ancestral links to the land.

Yes, but how can you measure "false claims of ancestry"? What is your criteria for true or false claims "ancestry"? When I asked you that a few posts ago, you said it was DNA. Is it? Or are you now deciding it is something else?

 

[MJB12741]

"And G-d shall scatter you among all the peoples from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth…" Devorim 28:64

"And G-d shall return your captivity and be merciful to you, and will return and gather you from all the nations whither G-d has scattered you." Devorim30:3

"As the natural laws are set before Me, so shall the seed of Israel never cease from being a nation before Me, forever." Yirmiyahu 31:36

Oh Me oh my. I forgot. You maggots believe the Bible is just a book of fairy tales, first written by Jews & then by Christians. No place for God with you.

 

[montelatici]

DNA demonstrates where one's ancestors come from.

So, to be absolutely clear, you believe that measuring DNA should be the guideline for assigning sovereignty over territory of ancestral lands?

No, I believe false claims of ancestry should not have been used to evict native inhabitants as happened in Palestine who actually had ancestral links to the land.

Yes, but how can you measure "false claims of ancestry"? What is your criteria for true or false claims "ancestry"? When I asked you that a few posts ago, you said it was DNA. Is it? Or are you now deciding it is something else?

When DNA markers demonstrate that people claiming ancestry in the Middle East have overwhelming European ancestry, it is a false claim.

 

[Shusha]

When DNA markers demonstrate that people claiming ancestry in the Middle East have overwhelming European ancestry, it is a false claim.

Well, DNA markers overwhelmingly support ME ancestry in all Jewish populations.

BUT...again, you are claiming DNA as the definitive measure of rights to ancestral territory, then. Okay. How much DNA would any particular person have to test positive for in order to have a right to self-determination on their ancestral land? I mean, just how would we go about testing for this? Do we hold clinics?