Israeli blockade of Gaza caused Oct 7th

[toomuchtime_]

Wrong, asshole! Israelis have rights, but not when it comes to the occupation of Palestinian land.

But according to the so called Palestinians, all of Israel is occupied Palestinian land, so what they are saying is that Israelis have no rights at all, just as Muslim law says Jews have no rights at all unless they are conferred by Muslims.

 

[Deadstick]

But according to the so called Palestinians, all of Israel is occupied Palestinian land, so what they are saying is that Israelis have no rights at all, just as Muslim law says Jews have no rights at all unless they are conferred by Muslims.

Which muslim law says jews have no rights? there are thousands living in Iran that are quite happy.

 

[gipper]

Israel (and every State) has the right to use armed force to respond to and prevent attacks on her citizens and on her territorial integrity within the limits of proportionality and distinction. She certainly has the right to attack and destroy all military objectives, including the tunnels, weapons caches, intelligence, and infrastructure for manufacturing weapons. She also has the right to abandon or cede territory. Or not.

You forgot to add your belief that Israel has every right to mass murder thousands of Palestinians, if it so desires.

 

[Hector12]

The 16 year immoral and illegal blockade of Gaza caused the Hamas attacks on October 7th.

I don't know what goes on inside an Israeli apologists head, but it's not normal thinking. You don't treat people like garbage for 16 years and expect nothing will happen?

The Hamas attacks was on act of terrorism, but that was the reaction to Israel's actions.

Israel must lift illegal and inhumane blockade on Gaza

Power plant shutdown will exacerbate an already desperate humanitarian crisis.

www.amnesty.org

the Israelis should never have given Gaza to the Palestinians. They conquered it in the 1967 Six Day War.

 

[rosends]

Which muslim law says jews have no rights? there are thousands living in Iran that are quite happy.

You should study more. The 8500 Jews who remain are under laws which severely limit their lives

"Iranian Jews remain under various discriminatory legal restrictions regarding their position in society. Jews are prohibited from holding significant governmental and decision-making positions. A Jew may not serve on the Guardian Council, as President, or as a military commander. Jews may not serve as judges, and aside from the seat reserved for a Jew in the Majlis, Jews may not become a member of the Majlis through general elections. A Jew may not inherit property from a Muslim. By law, if one member of a Jewish family converts to Islam, that person inherits all family property. Jews also do not have equal rights to Qisas, or retribution, in the Iranian judicial system. For example, if a Jew were to kill a Muslim, the family of the victim would have the right to ask that the death penalty be imposed, but if a Muslim kills a Jew, the penalty would be left to the discretion of the judges with the wishes of the victim's family carrying no legal weight"

Iran Week: Why Some Iranian Jews Stay for more

 

[Lisa558]

the Israelis should never have given Gaza to the Palestinians. They conquered it in the 1967 Six Day War.

They were trying to be extra accommodating so as not to give the antisemites ammunition to launch a propaganda war against Jews. But as we’ve seen, the Jew-haters will rant and rave no matter what.

In retrospect, the Jews should not have vacated Gaza 20 years ago (while still supplying them with water and electricity because the Palestinians can’t provide for themselves), and what did it get them? The most savage, barbaric, subhuman massacre since the Holocaust.

The Jews should have remained in Gaza, established a strong military and police presence, and Oct 7 would not have happened.

 

[Lisa558]

the Israelis should never have given Gaza to the Palestinians. They conquered it in the 1967 Six Day War.

….and remember, it was the Arabs who started the Six Day War.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Which muslim law says jews have no rights? there are thousands living in Iran that are quite happy.

Since the 7th century, Muslim law has defined Jews as second class citizens who were subject to persecution and humiliation by Muslims.

"From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce."

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

Jews were still second class citizens in the Ottoman Empire when it fell in WWI and they still are in Iran and in Turkey.

For well over a thousand years every Muslim child was raised to believe he or she was superior to any Jew and to hate Jews as evil. This is a core value of Muslim culture, law and religion. This is why Jewish immigrants from Europe were met with such ferocious hostility wen they arrived in Palestine and it is whey the so called Palestinians still refuse to live in peace with Jews.

 

[Hector12]

….and remember, it was the Arabs who started the Six Day War.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Yeah, I know. People say that according to the UN countries are not allowed to conquer land they capture in a war. Well, where was the UN when Nassar told the UN peace keeping mission to leave the Gulf of Acuba? What good is a peace keeping force if it does not keep the peace?

 

[Hector12]

They were trying to be extra accommodating so as not to give the antisemites ammunition to launch a propaganda war against Jews. But as we’ve seen, the Jew-haters will rant and rave no matter what.

In retrospect, the Jews should not have vacated Gaza 20 years ago (while still supplying them with water and electricity because the Palestinians can’t provide for themselves), and what did it get them? The most savage, barbaric, subhuman massacre since the Holocaust.

The Jews should have remained in Gaza, established a strong military and police presence, and Oct 7 would not have happened.

All of the land conquered in the Six Day War should have been formally annexed. The Palestinians should have been deported. The land should have been settled with Jews. The Arabs should have been told that if they threaten Israel again, they will lose more land.

I remember that war very well. My high school was already divided over the War in Vietnam, but everyone wanted Israel to win. We all felt very good when Israel did win.

 

[Lisa558]

Yeah, I know. People say that according to the UN countries are not allowed to conquer land they capture in a war. Well, where was the UN when Nassar told the UN peace keeping mission to leave the Gulf of Acuba? What good is a peace keeping force if it does not keep the peace?

And what would be the result if Israel could not keep land it won when Arabs attacked? Arabs would be attacking non-stop if they knew they had nothing to lose.

 

[Lisa558]

All of the land conquered in the Six Day War should have been formally annexed. The Palestinians should have been deported. The land should have been settled with Jews. The Arabs should have been told that if they threaten Israel again, they will lose more land.

I remember that war very well. My high school was already divided over the War in Vietnam, but everyone wanted Israel to win. We all felt very good when Israel did win.

You’re even older than I am!

But I remember it, too, but as a kid, I didn’t quite grasp what was at stake. I do, though, have a very clear memory of having a picnic with my family in a regional park, and my Dad standing several feet away, clued to the transistor radio.

 

[Deadstick]

Since the 7th century, Muslim law has defined Jews as second class citizens who were subject to persecution and humiliation by Muslims.

"From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce."

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

Jews were still second class citizens in the Ottoman Empire when it fell in WWI and they still are in Iran and in Turkey.

For well over a thousand years every Muslim child was raised to believe he or she was superior to any Jew and to hate Jews as evil. This is a core value of Muslim culture, law and religion. This is why Jewish immigrants from Europe were met with such ferocious hostility wen they arrived in Palestine and it is whey the so called Palestinians still refuse to live in peace with Jews.

7th century, you sound like a religious nutter.

 

[Shusha]

Thanks so much. This was very educational. (How’d you get to be so smart?!)

The first answer was very informative and did indeed answer that question.

As for the two other answers, it seems it’s just a matter of semantics - where people with an agenda change the meaning of a word to advance their purpose and persuade others to believe a certain way. Another word that springs to mind is “genocide” - which now means killing, even inadvertently, of 0.5% of a population, when done by Jews.

It goes further than semantics. It is the deliberate twisting and expansion of legal definitions in order to make Israel guilty of "crimes" that are not crimes. Ireland said that quiet part out loud recently. Ireland would like the ICJ to "expand the definition of genocide" to encompass Israel's actions in this war. In other words, Ireland would like to ensure Israel's guilt of the crime of genocide by making genocide mean "whatever it is Israel is doing".

 

[Shusha]

This is what it said ..

A state cannot simultaneously exercise control over territory it occupies and militarily attack that territory on the claim that it is “foreign” and poses an exogenous national security threat. In doing precisely that, Israel is asserting rights that may be consistent with colonial domination but simply do not exist under international law.

Keeping in mind that my overarching contention is that Israel can not occupy territory to which it has sovereign claim...

Israel has the right to protect itself from attacks, even to the extent of using military armed force. This is true for occupation or against foreign enemies. I fully agree that a state can not exercise control and claim self-defense against a foreign enemy at the same time. IF a state is attacked by a foreign enemy, it declares self-defense under Article 51 (and other law). IF a state is attacked by citizens of an occupied territory, the claim is not self-defense (because, by definition, they are already the victors). I need to repeat - either way - the state has an inherent, inviolable right to protect its territory and its citizens from attacks and that right includes the right to use force, including military force.

Here's my point: in order to be an occupying force, the occupier must have control over the territory. Israel demonstrably did not have control over Gaza post-2005. Israel did not control the government administration. Israel did not control security or policing within Gaza. (Two key qualities of occupation).

Here's how we know with certainty that Israel did not control Gaza: 22,000 rockets, weapons smuggling of unknown quantity, 700km of tunnels exclusively for military use, foreign terrorist-trained soldiers, children trained for combat roles, military campaigns such as October 7. If Israel had truly had control over Gaza, none of the military infrastructure could have been built, let alone used effectively against Israeli citizens. Israel would have prevented it through monitoring and inspections and would have charged, tried, and imprisoned those found guilty of terrorist acts.

This demonstrates that the territory was not controlled and therefore not occupied.

 

[Shusha]

You forgot to add your belief that Israel has every right to mass murder thousands of Palestinians, if it so desires.

Not so. I am very precise with my language. Assigning beliefs to people that they don't actually hold is an interesting personality quirk of yours.

 

[Shusha]

the Israelis should never have given Gaza to the Palestinians. They conquered it in the 1967 Six Day War.

Israel recovered the Gaza territory from Egypt who occupied it from 1948 to 1967. I really wish people would stop referring to the 1967 war as if it is in any way relevant. Its not. And referring to it in this way has caused most of the problems which draw out the conflict.

 

[Shusha]

All of the land conquered in the Six Day War should have been formally annexed.

Israel has sovereign claim to the territory. She doesn't need to annex it.

The Palestinians should have been deported.

Yikes, no. Illegal and immoral.

 

[Hector12]

Yikes, no. Illegal and immoral.

As far as the Law of Moses is concerned, it is legal. Other laws against the deportation of Palestinians need to be changed. The presence of Palestinians is incompatible with the happiness and well being of the Jews.

 

[Hector12]

Israel recovered the Gaza territory from Egypt who occupied it from 1948 to 1967. I really wish people would stop referring to the 1967 war as if it is in any way relevant. Its not. And referring to it in this way has caused most of the problems which draw out the conflict.

In 1967 Egypt, Syria, and Jordan tried to destroy Israel. Fortunately, they failed. The idea that the Israelis should just forgive and forget and give back all the land they conquered is preposterous.