Israel / Palestine Peace Plan

[Coyote]

Also on a case-by-case basis I would be for arabs living in judea and samaria being full Israeli citizens as long as they serve in the IDF and swear an oath to Israel like the rest of the Israeli citizens.

Do the rest of Israeli citizens swear an oath to Israel?

I would imagine that they would when they join the army, but I don't know the exact process.

Ah, I see - I was looking at it as two seperate things - serving and swearing an oath. I could agree with that idea though.

 

[CMike]

Can you explain why Arab Israeli's do not have the same rights as Jewish Israeli's?

They do, and are represented in Parliament.

They do not enjoy the same rights of immigration, of return or family reunification as Jewish citizens nor do they have the right to buy government land held by the "Jewish Trust" - a right reserved for Jewish citizens. Perhaps you can explain the descrepency?

Representation in Parliament is not the sum and total of rights.

Because it's a jewish state.

That said, arab israeli citizens have the full rights that jewish israeli citizens do.

They don't have rights if they are not Israeli citizens yet.

I am not sure what jewish trust you are referring too. Jews like america need to either rent or buy like everywhere lese.

 

[Coyote]

List of political parties in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Arab List - Ta'al Ibrahim Sarsur

They have 4 seats in the Israeli parliament

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

 

[CMike]

List of political parties in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Arab List - Ta'al Ibrahim Sarsur

They have 4 seats in the Israeli parliament

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

 

[The Rabbi]

The more posts, the more idiotic Coyote sounds.
Just because Israel doesn't resemble Switzerland thereofore it must resemble apartheid era South Africa.

 

[Coyote]

They do, and are represented in Parliament.

They do not enjoy the same rights of immigration, of return or family reunification as Jewish citizens nor do they have the right to buy government land held by the "Jewish Trust" - a right reserved for Jewish citizens. Perhaps you can explain the descrepency?

Representation in Parliament is not the sum and total of rights.

Because it's a jewish state.

That said, arab israeli citizens have the full rights that jewish israeli citizens do.

They don't have rights if they are not Israeli citizens yet.

I am not sure what jewish trust you are referring too. Jews like america need to either rent or buy like everywhere lese.

According the the ILA: 93% of the land in Israel is in the public domain; that is, either property of the state, the Jewish National Fund (JNF) or the Development Authority.
The Israel Land Administration (ILA) is the government agency responsible for managing this land which comprises 4,820,500 acres (19,508,000 dunams). "Ownership" of real estate in Israel usually means leasing rights from the ILA for 49 or 98 years.

The problem is - whether it's deliberately legislated into or done as a matter of common and unchallabged practice - Arabs are seldom able to lease this land and as a result are restricted to overcrowded villages or settlements dubbed "illegal" by the state, provided with no infrastural improvements and subject to demolition. So, if they really have the same rights to lease lands as Jewish citizens, then why aren't those rights granted?

Israel Lands Administration: "Since the foundation of the state, the Israel Lands Administration is solely used as Jewish land administration. The director of the Israel Lands Administration has used all the tactics, with the help of the Jewish Agency, to allocate state land only to Jews. Despite the bitter attempt over the decades, not even one Arab town has been established since the state's foundation."

Another interesting article: JNF heads oppose law allowing leasing of land only to Jews <br><br> - Haaretz - Israel News
and In Watershed, Israel Deems Land-use Rules of Zionist Icon ?Discriminatory? ? Forward.com

One strong thing I'll say in Israel's favor - discrimination is recognized by many there, and there is strong opposition within Israel to some of these policies and the courts have often ruled favorably. That is in direct opposition to Jose's claim of Israel as a "dictatorship" and of claiming that Israel IS aparthied rather than similar in some respects.

 

[CMike]

The Jewish National Fund is private.

Why would they create arab towns? It's a jewish country.

An arab can rent or buy an apartment or a home.

 

[Coyote]

List of political parties in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Arab List - Ta'al Ibrahim Sarsur

They have 4 seats in the Israeli parliament

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

Of course it's not based on quotas, but when there is such a large descrepency - then raises the question of "why" and the answer "they need to win more seats" is disengenius.

It also makes it look more like "token" positions than anything else.

 

[CMike]

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

Of course it's not based on quotas, but when there is such a large descrepency - then raises the question of "why" and the answer "they need to win more seats" is disengenius.

It also makes it look more like "token" positions than anything else.

They ran for it and won it.

How come asians don't make up a larger portion of congress?

 

[Coyote]

The Jewish National Fund is private.

But not the ILA. Since its foundation it has allocated state land exclusively to Jewish citizens.

Why would they create arab towns? It's a jewish country.

Well, right there you are saying that discrimmination exists and you it is justified. There is planning for "natural growth" in settlements but none allowed for Arab municipalities. Perhaps Arab towns would not be needed if Arab Israeli's could settle freely around the country but they can't - they are barred.

An arab can rent or buy an apartment or a home.

In some areas designated for Arabs.

Kind of like it used to be in the U.S. under Jim Crowe and segregation. You really think that is a good thing or only a good thing for Israel? Some discrimmination is ok?

 

[The Rabbi]

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

Of course it's not based on quotas, but when there is such a large descrepency - then raises the question of "why" and the answer "they need to win more seats" is disengenius.

It also makes it look more like "token" positions than anything else.

Because Israeli Palestinians routinely boycott the elections.
It only looks like that to you because you're a moron of the first order.

 

[The Rabbi]

Kind of like it used to be in the U.S. under Jim Crowe and segregation. You really think that is a good thing or only a good thing for Israel? Some discrimmination is ok?

Whoop, there you go again. Everything but must filtered through experiences you think you understand. Never mind the two things have zero in common, except in your own mind.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Kind of like it used to be in the U.S. under Jim Crowe and segregation. You really think that is a good thing or only a good thing for Israel? Some discrimmination is ok?

Whoop, there you go again. Everything but must filtered through experiences you think you understand. Never mind the two things have zero in common, except in your own mind.

You still pretending that The Madman Obama's master Rahm Emanuel isn't your hero Mr. Fake Rabbi?

~BH

 

[toomuchtime_]

List of political parties in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Arab List - Ta'al Ibrahim Sarsur

They have 4 seats in the Israeli parliament

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

In fact they do hold more seats, 13. Three Arab parties have members in the current Knesset: United Arab List, 4 members; Hadash, 4 members; and Balad, 3 members. In addition, Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu, Avigdor Lieberman's party, each have one Arab member in the Knesset.

List of Arab members of the Knesset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of political parties in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arabs make up about 20% of Israeli citizens and they hold about 11% of the seats in the Knesset. African Americans make up about 13.5% of US citizens and they hold 43 seats in the 535 member US Congress (42 seats in the House and one seat in the Senate), about 8%. If you crunch the numbers, that means that in proportion to their percent of the population, Arab citizens in Israel are slightly better represented in the Knesset than African Americans are in the US Congress.

 

[Coyote]

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

Of course it's not based on quotas, but when there is such a large descrepency - then raises the question of "why" and the answer "they need to win more seats" is disengenius.

It also makes it look more like "token" positions than anything else.

Because Israeli Palestinians routinely boycott the elections.
It only looks like that to you because you're a moron of the first order.

While Arab voter turnout has been on a decline, it was 54.3 % in the 2009 election - a boycott doesn't explain it all. Interesting article.

Only 65% of all Israeli's voted in 2009.

Double whammy: the election commissions attempt to disqualify both Arab parties.

1955 Knesset had 90% Arab voter participation. Only two Arab party seats were won with another two from a Jewish-Arab cooperative party.

1969 a steady decliine to 80% - no Arab party won seats, though there were several "cooperative" parties won 4 seats.

Arab voter turnout continued to decline then jumped up again to 77% in 1996 (overall voter turnout was 79%) - only one Arab party, 4 seats.

1999 - Arab List party won 5 seats with something like 75% arab voter turn out.

2003 62% (2001 was 18% - a boycott) - Arab party won 2 seats.

2006 total voter turnout was lowest ever at 63.2%, Arab voter turnout was 56.3% United Arab List-Taal won 3 seats.

So it would seem regardless of voter turnout - they've never won more than 5 seats (and that was in a year with only 75%) turn out. In a number of the years - Arab voter turnout was not significantly different from overall voter turn out and the years when they were highest saw only 2-4 seats gained.

I'm not sure - other than 2001 (which was strictly for prime minister) - how much of a boycott there was and whether it made any difference anyway.

 

[Coyote]

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

In fact they do hold more seats, 13. Three Arab parties have members in the current Knesset: United Arab List, 4 members; Hadash, 4 members; and Balad, 3 members. In addition, Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu, Avigdor Lieberman's party, each have one Arab member in the Knesset.

List of Arab members of the Knesset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of political parties in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arabs make up about 20% of Israeli citizens and they hold about 11% of the seats in the Knesset. African Americans make up about 13.5% of US citizens and they hold 43 seats in the 535 member US Congress (42 seats in the House and one seat in the Senate), about 8%. If you crunch the numbers, that means that in proportion to their percent of the population, Arab citizens in Israel are slightly better represented in the Knesset than African Americans are in the US Congress.

Thank you for the correction - I didn't look deep enough

 

[Coyote]

Kind of like it used to be in the U.S. under Jim Crowe and segregation. You really think that is a good thing or only a good thing for Israel? Some discrimmination is ok?

Whoop, there you go again. Everything but must filtered through experiences you think you understand. Never mind the two things have zero in common, except in your own mind.

Projecting again are you?

 

[The Rabbi]

Kind of like it used to be in the U.S. under Jim Crowe and segregation. You really think that is a good thing or only a good thing for Israel? Some discrimmination is ok?

Whoop, there you go again. Everything but must filtered through experiences you think you understand. Never mind the two things have zero in common, except in your own mind.

Projecting again are you?

I'm not the one insisting that Israel is like the Jim Crow South or apartheid era South Africa. You're the one engaging in that fallacy.
But it's a lot easier than admitting the truth: that you don't have a clue what's going on in Israel but gosh there sure are a lot of pictures of innocent looking people getting killed/beaten up so there must be SOMETHING going on here.

 

[CMike]

Actually it was my mistake. I was doing it too quickly.

 

[Marc39]

I think there is a total of only two Arab parties (?), and the electoral commission tried to ban both of them recently but their Supreme Court rejected it.

Out of 120 seats they hold 4.
Israel is 76% Jewish, 24% Arab.
A quarter of those seats would be 30 - they seem very under-represented.

The Israeli parliament isn't based on quotas. Then they need to win more seats.

In fact they do hold more seats, 13. Three Arab parties have members in the current Knesset: United Arab List, 4 members; Hadash, 4 members; and Balad, 3 members. In addition, Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu, Avigdor Lieberman's party, each have one Arab member in the Knesset.

List of Arab members of the Knesset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of political parties in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arabs make up about 20% of Israeli citizens and they hold about 11% of the seats in the Knesset. African Americans make up about 13.5% of US citizens and they hold 43 seats in the 535 member US Congress (42 seats in the House and one seat in the Senate), about 8%. If you crunch the numbers, that means that in proportion to their percent of the population, Arab citizens in Israel are slightly better represented in the Knesset than African Americans are in the US Congress.

What's your point, dummy? Do you even have one, moron?