Israel is Right To Defend Itself

[BaronVonBigmeat]

You could have saved space and time by saying, since the terrorists are not coming after you (yet) you don't care how many Jews they kill

Yeah dude, after they mop the floor with Israel (ha ha), all the squabbling arab factions and governments are going to form a Pan-Arab megastate, become an economic powerhouse with a modern industrial base, and raise a modern army. Then, they are going to take their Navy, cross the Atlantic, sink our Navy, and begin landing troops in american cities. There will be muslim troops on every streetcorner, enforcing Sharia law at the point of a gun.

It is one thing to say that Israel does not deserve all the shit piled on top of it. The jews originally bought most of their land (in many cases paying exhorbitant amounts for barren scrubland), most of the original "Palestinians" were migrant workers from Egypt, Iraq, etc. But it does not logically follow that it is america's duty to pour our lives and dollars into propping up Israel, especially since they have successfully defeated arab armies 5 or 6 times. Our tax dollars also help Israel maintain one of the most socialist states in the world, without our aid they would have to make reforms, which would be better for them in the long run.

 

[roomy]

What other country was established by U.N. mandate regardless of the wishes of the indigenous population?

It's almost as bad as invading a country, committing genocide and claiming it for oneself without a mandate from any source other than home.

Since when do the wishes of the indigenous count for squat?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

It's almost as bad as invading a country, committing genocide and claiming it for oneself without a mandate from any source other than home.

Since when do the wishes of the indigenous count for squat?

I'm just saying. The existence of israel is of no major importance to anyone but the israelis, their position is not morally superior to anyone else's in humanities fight for land.

Maybe the easiest thing would be to let the jews have part of utah, or missouri or some other part in the vast U.S. nation.

 

[roomy]

I'm just saying. The existence of israel is of no major importance to anyone but the israelis, their position is not morally superior to anyone else's in humanities fight for land.

Maybe the easiest thing would be to let the jews have part of utah, or missouri or some other part in the vast U.S. nation.

The existence of Israel may hold more importance to Israelites than anyone else, but no more so than The USA to Americans or Britain to Brits.I understand your point but it is moot because Israel is now a fact.If we rolled back time, where would you belong, not in America, I wager.

 

[dilloduck]

The existence of Israel may hold more importance to Israelites than anyone else, but no more so than The USA to Americans or Britain to Brits.I understand your point but it is moot because Israel is now a fact.If we rolled back time, where would you belong, not in America, I wager.

Agreed--Israel is a fact and nothing short of total annihilation will make them leave. The fairness or wisdom of the decision to establish Israel as a Jewish state is of no consequence.

 

[William Joyce]

Please don't tell me you people are buying into this bullshit.
It is a WAR between two groups. It is IRRELAVANT if 3rd parties feel its justified, or if one side has a "right" to remain where they are. The fact is both sides feel strongly enough in their beliefs that they will fight, they will die, they will wage war on the other. Condemning or condoning it from the outside isn't going to change the fact that they will fight their war.
There is nothing we could possibly do to ever change either side's beliefs to the point where they will stop waging war. The Zionists believe its their right to be there, fine, they can believe whatever they want, just don't ask me to fight your war for you! And Arabs feel they were wronged when the UN created the state of Israel in their lands. We cannot change the mistakes made in the past. And I will not die for them either.

Stop with this gung-ho lets fight for Israel bullshit.

Ditto.

Krauthammer, like Goldberg, Safire, Kristol, Podhoretz and the rest of those "conservatives" AREN'T REALLY 'CONSERVATIVES,' they're Jews with a very vested interested in Israel that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FATES AND FORTUNES OF AMERICA, a fact they NEVER DISCLOSE in their writings.

But I will.

 

[Gunny]

Ditto.

Krauthammer, like Goldberg, Safire, Kristol, Podhoretz and the rest of those "conservatives" AREN'T REALLY 'CONSERVATIVES,' they're Jews with a very vested interested in Israel that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FATES AND FORTUNES OF AMERICA, a fact they NEVER DISCLOSE in their writings.

But I will.

The more this topic is raised, the more this forum is beginning to resemble Germany, circa 1937.

 

[jillian]

The more this topic is raised, the more this forum is beginning to resemble Germany, circa 1937.

Sadly, I've noticed that, too. And yet there are those who say that Jews are paranoid when they see Israel as a safety net.

Oh...and as for Wiliam Joyce, to whom you were responding, his name is an homage to the real name of traitor Lord Haw Haw who sided with the Nazis during WWII.

You don't think he chose that name because he wasn't aware of the connection, do you? Bet if you ask him, he'll tell you Hitler didn't finish the job.

 

[Gunny]

Sadly, I've noticed that, too. And yet there are those who say that Jews are paranoid when they see Israel as a safety net.

Oh...and as for Wiliam Joyce, to whom you were responding, his name is an homage to the real name of traitor Lord Haw Haw who sided with the Nazis during WWII.

You don't think he chose that name because he wasn't aware of the connection, do you? Bet if you ask him, he'll tell you Hitler didn't finish the job.

William Joyce (of USMB fame) and I have been around a time or two. While he is the manifestation of the sentiment mentioned in my previous post, it was not directed solely at him but to ALL those taking a simple right-wrong issue and trying to cloud it with unreasonable, learned fear/hatred of difference.

An aside I find interesting is that the reincarnated Lord Haw Haw thinks HE is the only true conservative.

 

[Nuc]

The UN allows them to set camp smack dab in the middle of people who hate them. Did they expect a cakewalk?

Yes, this is the basic problem. If a bunch of Russians and Polish want to move to a desert, why did it have to be THAT desert with THOSE neighbors? UN should have given the Jews part of the Australian desert or Nevada or any other place where they would have been safe, and not antagonize the actual residents of the region. There is no reason the rest of the world should be at risk because of some fantasy about Jews having to live in a particular place. Any religion which is tied to a specific place is a weak religion. Good ideas should be able to flourish everywhere.

If they relocated Israel to a reasonable place (preferably a desert, since that seems to be desired) then the Arabs would consume themselves and a lot of our problems would be solved.

 

[jillian]

William Joyce (of USMB fame) and I have been around a time or two. While he is the manifestation of the sentiment mentioned in my previous post, it was not directed solely at him but to ALL those taking a simple right-wrong issue and trying to cloud it with unreasonable, learned fear/hatred of difference.

Oh...I know, was just stating the obvious, I guess.

And I agree with your assessment on this issue.

 

[Nuc]

Maybe the easiest thing would be to let the jews have part of utah, or missouri or some other part in the vast U.S. nation.

Or anywhere. Why not offer them anywhere they want to relocate? Most of them have relocated from the States and Russia anyway. They are not indigenous.

 

[Gunny]

Yes, this is the basic problem. If a bunch of Russians and Polish want to move to a desert, why did it have to be THAT desert with THOSE neighbors? UN should have given the Jews part of the Australian desert or Nevada or any other place where they would have been safe, and not antagonize the actual residents of the region. There is no reason the rest of the world should be at risk because of some fantasy about Jews having to live in a particular place. Any religion which is tied to a specific place is a weak religion. Good ideas should be able to flourish everywhere.

If they relocated Israel to a reasonable place (preferably a desert, since that seems to be desired) then the Arabs would consume themselves and a lot of our problems would be solved.

It had to be THAT desert because none of the other so-called civilized Western nations wanted the Jewish scourge in their respective countries. They were given a pretty worthless chunk of land in the middle of nowhere because it kept them away from us.

It was at the time, perfectly legal. Questioning the right of Israel to exist begs the question of the right of EVERY nation in the world to exist since few, if any, are currently inhabited by descendents of original inhabitants.

In speculative hindsight, we should have given them California.

Not sure I buy off on the Arabs consuming themselves theory. Not so long as any of us are left for them to focus their hatred on.

 

[Nuc]

It had to be THAT desert because none of the other so-called civilized Western nations wanted the Jewish scourge in their respective countries. They were given a pretty worthless chunk of land in the middle of nowhere because it kept them away from us.
.

Well, as with so many of the decisions regarding our precious Judeo/Christian (and Muslim) heritage, it was stupid. Monotheism is causing a lot of problems these days.

 

[jillian]

Well, as with so many of the decisions regarding our precious Judeo/Christian (and Muslim) heritage, it was stupid. Monotheism is causing a lot of problems these days.

The problem isn't with monotheism. The problem is with hatred.

More to the point, once the Israelis got the land, the Arabs were told by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to leave and that the Jews would be thrown into the sea in three days. Amazingly enough, that didn't happen. Instead they made a desert green. You think they should go to yet another desert now? Not exactly realistic.

I would also suggest that you look at this map:

http://www.mideastweb.org/misraeldetail.htm

Israel, in its entirety, is about the size of New Jersey. But the half to the right of the broken yellow line on the map is Palestinian territory. Everything to the South of Beersheeba is the Negev Desert and not really useable.

And THIS is what's causing all the fuss?

Naaaaaaaaaaaah....couldn't have anything to do with hate.

 

[Nuc]

The problem isn't with monotheism. The problem is with hatred.

Or the problem is that the monotheists of this world hate each other, which has been demonstrated over and over for the last century in dramatic fashion.

Thought they worship the same god?

 

[Gunny]

Well, as with so many of the decisions regarding our precious Judeo/Christian (and Muslim) heritage, it was stupid. Monotheism is causing a lot of problems these days.

But why focus solely on Judeo-Christianity? Judeo-Christians are not the ones initiating wars of terror in the name of their God.

If you want to take it a step even further back, I think this inbred fear of Zionism that has been perpetuated for centuries is absolute bullshit.

However, I would not necessarily blame monotheism. I would blame the extremists who cause all the trouble, and they exist in EVERY facet of life, not just religion. The anti-religious/ so-called secular in the extreme can be every bit as bad, and every bit as deadly.

 

[jillian]

Or the problem is that the monotheists of this world hate each other, which has been demonstrated over and over for the last century in dramatic fashion.

Thought they worship the same god?

But the Jews never had a problem with the concept of being neighbors with Arabs. It was the Arabs who couldn't tolerate even this little Jewish space in their midst.

I thought Christians and Jews worship the same deity, as well. As you can see even from some of the comments on this board, doesn't keep the hatred at bay.

Personally, I think religion is responsible for more bloodshed than almost any other reason.

 

[Gunny]

Or the problem is that the monotheists of this world hate each other, which has been demonstrated over and over for the last century in dramatic fashion.

Thought they worship the same god?

Secular Arabs believe that NO ONE is entitled to exist in the Middle East except Arabs. It is as much a question of culture as it is religion. The religious fanatics just happen to be the ones leading the violent side of the fight.

The nations that have attacked Israel in the past could hardly be described as theocracies. This is about man's fear of difference. Religion is just the vehicle at this point in time.

It doesn't help that for some inexplicable reason, Jews are defined by bothe race and religion as the same, unlike every other people in the world.

 

[Nuc]

But why focus solely on Judeo-Christianity? Judeo-Christians are not the ones initiating wars of terror in the name of their God.

If you want to take it a step even further back, I think this inbred fear of Zionism that has been perpetuated for centuries is absolute bullshit.

However, I would not necessarily blame monotheism. I would blame the extremists who cause all the trouble, and they exist in EVERY facet of life, not just religion. The anti-religious/ so-called secular in the extreme can be every bit as bad, and every bit as deadly.

I agree. Anti-Semitism is rancid, the Jews have made a disproportionate contribution to society at large.

I'm not blaming monotheism in the abstract, but I am blaming monotheists in concrete terms. Especially the ones who don't eat pork, which seems to be the main problem.

Denmark should have dropped planeloads of their delicious ham over the region to atone for the cartoon controversy.