Israel dismisses 2 officers over deadly drone strikes on aid workers in Gaza

[JoeB131]

Hamas will not launch such a barbaric ever again. As you know, leaving them alive and we do this again in a few years, and then again.

Actually, for every person they've killed, they've probably created two terrorists.

 

[gipper]

You got it backwards. That’s what the Muslim savages were shouting as they sawed off baby heads and set toddlers on fire.

Nazis thought Jews were subhuman, just as you think the same of Muslims.

You aren’t smart enough to recognize the enormous hypocrisy. Hatred and racism makes one ignorant.

 

[Lisa558]

Nazis thought Jews were subhuman, just as you think the same of Muslims.

You aren’t smart enough to recognize the enormous hypocrisy. Hatred and racism makes one ignorant.

The Muslim savages who sawed off baby heads and set little kids on fire ARE subhuman. There is no comparison to Jews in Germany who were simply working and raising a family - and harming no one,

But you know that.

 

[JoeB131]

The Muslim savages who sawed off baby heads and set little kids on fire ARE subhuman. There is no comparison to Jews in Germany who were simply working and raising a family - and harming no one,

But you know that.

Most of the 33K people who the Zionists have killed had nothing to do with the 10-7 attacks. The 14,000 children certainly didn't.

 

[Shusha]

Kill those kids! Yippee!

Stop using CHILDREN as combatants in war. I can't believe you are justifying this as acceptable.

 

[Lisa558]

Stop using CHILDREN as combatants in war. I can't believe you are justifying this as acceptable.

He just enjoys slandering Jews. We probably shouldn’t indulge him, but it’s hard to let the blood libel continue without an objection. That is how antisemites were able to turn people against Jews, beginning in 12th century England, and as you can see, continuing to this day.

 

[gipper]

Stop using CHILDREN as combatants in war. I can't believe you are justifying this as acceptable.

 

[Lisa558]

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The HAMAS savages just needed to return the hostages and surrender. Too bad their wish to have the world turn against Israel is more important than the lives of their own people.

 

[Coyote]

But this illuminates the problem, does it not? What you mean when you describe the territory as "no man's land" is that you are expecting (hoping for) a peanut butter and jelly sandwich when there is no peanut butter, no jelly, and no bread.

I’m not sure what you mean by that at all. I said no man’s land because no one really controls it nor is it autonomous and no one seems to have any idea what its future will look like…no man’s land.

Israel isn't trying to prevent a power vacuum. Literally, what Israel NEEDs to do is create that power vacuum (because the power in question is abhorrent, and destructively evil, and harmful to both Israel and Gaza citizens). The question on the table is WHO is going to step up to fill that vacuum. If your answer is: "Hamas, other militant groups or warlords", it only demonstrates the lack of capacity for the people of Gaza (Palestine) to create a functioning nation.

That is an extremely dangerous game to play don’t you think? What is happening in the north where some 300,000 Palestinians remained and there has been a complete breakdown of any governance, law, etc. What is stepping to fill that? What you would expect: thugs, gangs, militias. Is THAT any better than Hamas? Another Haiti with the extra bonus of terrorists?

It isn’t about the lack of capacity to create a functioning nation, it’s about giving them a reasonable chance and not creating yet another failed state and another situation where terrorists set up a another haven just so you can point the finger at the Palestinians and say - “see?”.

How does that benefit Israel? Or the entire region?

The problem is not with the "recognition", but the will and the capacity and the actualization of the people of Gaza (or "Palestine") to step up to fill that vacuum. If the people of Gaza are not capable of filing that vacuum (and they are most clearly NOT, so very NOT), then there is no point in calling for them to fill in the vacuum with vague political hand-waving of "recognition". Accept reality.

It’s also a reality that Netanyahu has spent years in office insuring that there will never be a Palestinian state, weakening the PA and supporting Hamas’ hold on Gaza to prevent a unified Palestinian entity.

Israel is demanding that other countries pay to rebuild Gaza. Why should they if it means nothing changes regarding the Palestinians, a resolution all parties keep kicking down the road. It is a hell of an investment. Generally, when nations do that, they expect to have a say in the outcome.

I’d like to hear your plan on how the Palestinians remaining in the north are going to drive out armed militias and gangs when there is no longer any government, law, security or civil order, or for that matter food. Maybe that is what Israel desires. A region rendered so lawless and uninhabitable so the native population has no choice but to leave.

Why are we still talking about the conditions? The conditions are easy and not especially under dispute. Are they? So, let's square this circle. A people seeks self-determination. An existing State is prepared to accommodate this desire. What are the conditions that must be performed by the accommodating State to satisfy the requirement "to leave and then actually leaving"?

There is no existing state prepared to accomodate this desire, hasn’t been for years.


The conditions are not easy.

 

[Coyote]

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That is a dishonest portrayal of what the Russians have done in Ukraine. What did they do to Mariupol…Bakhmet…tons of other Ukrainian towns?

 

[Coyote]

The HAMAS savages just needed to return the hostages and surrender. Too bad their wish to have the world turn against Israel is more important than the lives of their own people.

They have never cared about their own people.

 

[Markle]

Most of the 33K people who the Zionists have killed had nothing to do with the 10-7 attacks. The 14,000 children certainly didn't.

They voted for Hamas to lead their government. No Israelis did anything to merit the barbaric attack.

 

[JoeB131]

The HAMAS savages just needed to return the hostages and surrender. Too bad their wish to have the world turn against Israel is more important than the lives of their own people.

Yet the world is turning against Israel.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yet the world is turning against Israel.

No, it's not. People are just upset about the war.

 

[Shusha]

That is an extremely dangerous game to play don’t you think?

I'll have a more thorough response, but for now ...

YES! It is an extremely dangerous game to play. What I don't understand is why you think Israel is the only one playing it. Or, worse, why Israel is the only one responsible for playing it.

 

[Shusha]

...there has been a complete breakdown of any governance, law, etc. What is stepping to fill that?

THAT is the million dollar question, isn't it? (Thugs and militias and warring factions for power are just temporary.)

Ideally, for the two of us who fundamentally believe in the rights of two peoples to self-determination, sovereignty, and Statehood in the territory, it would be a local, moderate, future-thinking Palestinian political movement which embraced living side-by-side with a Jewish State in mutual peace and prosperity. There is no possible chance of that happening in the foreseeable future. Yes?

Second choice. A third party State with positive relationships to both Israel and Palestine accepts a Mandate over Gaza to bring to reality either a self-determining, sovereign State OR to otherwise fulfill the wishes of the people of Gaza. I am not convinced that such a third party State exists. Yes?

Third choice. Israel annexes Gaza and eventually the people of Gaza either willingly become citizens of Israel or they secede under peaceful, mutually agreeable terms. Yes?

These are, obviously, best possible outcomes.

The real question is what to do with the worst possible outcomes.

 

[Shusha]

It isn’t about the lack of capacity to create a functioning nation, it’s about giving them a reasonable chance and not creating yet another failed state ...

Well, if the people of Gaza (and Palestine) are not capable of creating a functioning, independent nation with international support, and trillions of dollars of aide, and economic trade with Israel...

...we need to just let that go, don't we?

 

[Shusha]

The conditions are not easy.

Hard disagree. Easy. The parameters were: "to leave and then actually leaving":

• Remove all military forces from the territory.
• Remove all government and administrative control within the territory.
• Establish a mutually recognized border and implement border controls.
• Bonus condition: Ethnically cleanse the territory.

Reciprocal conditions:

• End all forms of belligerence against the party leaving the territory.

That's it.

 

[gipper]

That is a dishonest portrayal of what the Russians have done in Ukraine. What did they do to Mariupol…Bakhmet…tons of other Ukrainian towns?

Much of the destruction in those towns was caused by both sides, not just Russia.

 

[Lisa558]

No, it's not. People are just upset about the war.

The majority of Americans are still on Israel’s side, especially when you factor out the young, ignorant, gullible people in their 20s.

A recent Gallop poll shows that only 27% of Americans‘ sympathies lie with the Palestinians, despite the media propaganda.