Israel and US discuss defunding of UNRWA

[MJB12741]

She claims (and I agree wholeheartedly) that the return of the refugees descendants is intended primarily to reverse Jewish self-determination and destroy the nation of Israel.

Oh the irony.

You are drawing a false equivalence and here's the test:

What land is (or should be) Jewish land? If your answer is, "None, its all Palestinian land", then your intention is to negate Jewish rights to self-determination. Nearly all Palestinians, nearly everyone on this board on the "pro-Palestinian" side, and many in the international community hold this view.

Now ask the opposite question of the pro-Israelis. What land is (or should be) Palestinian land? You will likely get a variety of answers -- but all of them will have one thing in common -- there is both Palestinian land and Jewish land. Oh, we'll argue about where it is and how much each should have, but both things exist. No one on the pro-Israel side will say that there is no such thing as Palestinian land. There is no intent, on the Jewish side to negate Palestinian rights to self-determination.

Its is THE fundamental cause of the conflict.

No one on the pro-Israel side will say that there is no such thing as Palestinian land. There is no intent, on the Jewish side to negate Palestinian rights to self-determination.

Are you serious? Israel has been trying to wipe Palestine off the Map and Palestinians out of history for a hundred years.

Damn! I didn't know that. Lets check this out..

In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just over 6 million of them left. Yep! it's a GENOCIDE I tell ya, a GENOCIDE! And if you don't believe it, just ask any Palestinian terrorist supporter.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

 

[Shusha]

UNRWA is a temporary agency established to provide aid until the UNCCP fulfills its mandate laid out in Resolution 194.

Well. its been nearly a hundred years and there is no "living at peace with their neighbors" even now, so I guess that can be put to bed too, huh? And the mandate included not only repatriate, but also resettlement, compensation and rehabilitation.

Its done.

 

[P F Tinmore]

UNRWA is a temporary agency established to provide aid until the UNCCP fulfills its mandate laid out in Resolution 194.

Well. its been nearly a hundred years and there is no "living at peace with their neighbors" even now, so I guess that can be put to bed too, huh? And the mandate included not only repatriate, but also resettlement, compensation and rehabilitation.

Its done.

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

 

[Shusha]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

That is because there are no other cases

 

[Shusha]

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

In point of fact the "right to return" is rather a new concept in law. It has NEVER been applied to ANY other people intergenerationally, the way Palestinians expect it to apply to them. NEVER. This is entirely new territory.

As I said, though, I do not have a problem with the concept of a right to return. The problem is with the right to return which is intended to negate the self-determination of a people. THAT is the problem.

How do we preserve the integrity of national self-determination with a people who demand that a certain people NOT have self-determination?

 

[Shusha]

Let me be clear, and again remind you that I am not against Palestinian return. I am against Palestinian return which is intended to NEGATE Jewish self-determination.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

That is because there are no other cases

Indeed, they are virtually always solved in the first generation.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

That is because there are no other cases

Indeed, they are virtually always solved in the first generation.

And should have been solved in the first generation of Arabs from the Mandate of Palestine, all of those who left because their leaders told them to, or were fighting against Israel and were made to leave for the right reasons.

Look at all the countries which could and should have given a welcoming mat to all of those Arabs:
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, UAE, Qatar, Jordan.

So many Arab countries and not one of them would open their hearts to their fellow Arabs.

What an amazing Arab Nation it is.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

That is because there are no other cases

Indeed, they are virtually always solved in the first generation.

And should have been solved in the first generation of Arabs from the Mandate of Palestine, all of those who left because their leaders told them to, or were fighting against Israel and were made to leave for the right reasons.

Look at all the countries which could and should have given a welcoming mat to all of those Arabs:
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, UAE, Qatar, Jordan.

So many Arab countries and not one of them would open their hearts to their fellow Arabs.

What an amazing Arab Nation it is.

So many Arab countries and not one of them would open their hearts to their fellow Arabs.

When did it become their job to clean up after Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

That is because there are no other cases

Indeed, they are virtually always solved in the first generation.

And should have been solved in the first generation of Arabs from the Mandate of Palestine, all of those who left because their leaders told them to, or were fighting against Israel and were made to leave for the right reasons.

Look at all the countries which could and should have given a welcoming mat to all of those Arabs:
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, UAE, Qatar, Jordan.

So many Arab countries and not one of them would open their hearts to their fellow Arabs.

What an amazing Arab Nation it is.

all of those who left because their leaders told them to, or were fighting against Israel and were made to leave for the right reasons.

What about the rest of them?

And besides, the reason for leaving is irrelevant.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let me be clear, and again remind you that I am not against Palestinian return. I am against Palestinian return which is intended to NEGATE Jewish self-determination.

The right to return is to their homes and properties.

 

[Hollie]

Let me be clear, and again remind you that I am not against Palestinian return. I am against Palestinian return which is intended to NEGATE Jewish self-determination.

The right to return is to their homes and properties.

The vast majority of welfare begging Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians' have never had homes or properties in your invented "country of Pally'land"

 

[Shusha]

Let me be clear, and again remind you that I am not against Palestinian return. I am against Palestinian return which is intended to NEGATE Jewish self-determination.

The right to return is to their homes and properties.

Something found no where in international law to apply intergenerationally.

It is a new idea invented solely to prevent self-determination and rights to the Jewish people.

 

[Roudy]

Israel has ALWAYS, since day one, acknowledged and accepted Palestinian rights and gone along with the concept of sharing the territory under two sovereignties,

Is that why Israel expelled 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continues to expel them today?

Israel didn't expel anyone in 1948, that is Pallywood fake Muslims news.

How come Wikipedia says otherwise?

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia

"catastrophe", or "cataclysm"),[1] occurred when more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Palestine war.[2] Between 400 and 600 Palestinian villages were sacked during the war, while urban Palestine was almost entirely extinguished.[3] The term "nakba" also refers to the period of war itself and events affecting Palestinians from December 1947 to January 1949.

The precise number of refugees, many of whom settled in refugee camps in neighboring states, is a matter of dispute[4] but around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (50 percent of the Arab total of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes.[5][6] Approximately 250,000-300,000 Palestinians had fled or been expelled prior to the Israeli Declaration of Independence in May 1948; a fact which was named as a causus belli for the entry of the Arab League into the country, sparking the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

From your link:

"The causes are also a subject of fundamental disagreement between historians."

Fact: Five Arab nations attacked the newly formed Jewish state in order to destroy it and divide it between themselves, and got their butts kicked. The refugees are a result of the Arab aggression. In fact Egypt and Jordan kept these so called Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza for twenty years, without a word about a "Palestine".

 

[Roudy]

People have been dancing around that question for years.

Not sure which question you mean.

Its time for UNRWA to be defunded and put to bed. There is no way that a Palestinian lawyer who was born and grew up in the US, went to Harvard and lives a nice, comfortable life in Boston should be designated as a refugee. There is no way people living in Gaza should be considered refugees (not saying they shouldn't be helped). It detracts from the people who are truly in need. It perpetuates dependency. It cements the idea of victimhood and entrenches their vulnerability, rather than putting into effect solutions. And, ironically, it doesn't actually take into account the real needs of the people it supposes to help.

But more importantly, the continued existence of UNRWA perpetuates the notion that five million Palestinians will return en masse to Israel. Its not going to happen. Its neither practical nor a long term solution to the problem.

UNRWA needs to be put to bed and all those truly in need should be moved into the care of UNHCR whose goal is to assist refugees rebuild a life with dignity and to assist them to repatriate, if possible (it is, but not to Israel), integrate into their communities of residence or resettle in a third country.

It was never the purpose of IHL to unbreak eggs. And we should stop trying.

UNRWA is a temporary agency established to provide aid until the UNCCP fulfills its mandate laid out in Resolution 194.

Somehow I don't see "establishing schools and hospitals for the Palestinians that can be used as missile storage and launch sites. And funding for schools that brainwash Arab kids into being future Islamo-terrorists" anywhere in their mission statement. And besides why should this funded by US taxpayer money?

 

[Roudy]

You cannot deny the rights of all of the refugees on the assumption that some of them might not be peaceful.

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

That is because there are no other cases

Indeed, they are virtually always solved in the first generation.

And should have been solved in the first generation of Arabs from the Mandate of Palestine, all of those who left because their leaders told them to, or were fighting against Israel and were made to leave for the right reasons.

Look at all the countries which could and should have given a welcoming mat to all of those Arabs:
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, UAE, Qatar, Jordan.

So many Arab countries and not one of them would open their hearts to their fellow Arabs.

What an amazing Arab Nation it is.

Some did. Look what happened in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Kuwait.

 

[Roudy]

[UOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 18141430, member: 21837"]

Not the point. Its not an individual right for all descendants to perpetuity. It also deserves consideration as a collective right. For BOTH peoples.

Right to return is an individual right that applies to everybody.

It applies to generations, but it usually does not take 70 years to resolve the problem. So you have just not seen it in other cases.

That is because there are no other cases

Indeed, they are virtually always solved in the first generation.

And should have been solved in the first generation of Arabs from the Mandate of Palestine, all of those who left because their leaders told them to, or were fighting against Israel and were made to leave for the right reasons.

Look at all the countries which could and should have given a welcoming mat to all of those Arabs:
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, UAE, Qatar, Jordan.

So many Arab countries and not one of them would open their hearts to their fellow Arabs.

What an amazing Arab Nation it is.

So many Arab countries and not one of them would open their hearts to their fellow Arabs.

When did it become their job to clean up after Israel.[/QUOTE]
They created the problem, why should Israel be responsible?

 

[Roudy]

Israel has ALWAYS, since day one, acknowledged and accepted Palestinian rights and gone along with the concept of sharing the territory under two sovereignties,

Is that why Israel expelled 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continues to expel them today?

Israel didn't expel anyone in 1948, that is Pallywood fake Muslims news. The refugees were created when five Arab countries attacked Israel to destroy it, not to create a Palestine. Then the Arabs put the refugee Arabs who later called themselves Palestinians into refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years. Then they used those same lands to attack Israel, this time losing those lands as well.

The refugees were created when five Arab countries attacked Israel to destroy it

Typical Israeli bullshit. About 300,000 Palestinians became refugees before the start of the war.

A war the Arabs started, and lost, created refugees.