Israel and US discuss defunding of UNRWA

[P F Tinmore]

Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 to defined refugees and established UNCCP to provide a solution based on resolution 194. UNWRA was established in 1949, with a different definition of refugees based on the need for aid. The UNWRA does not have the authority to resolve the refugee problem.

This is more or less correct.

A couple of interesting things to note:

If the definition of refugees is solely based on need for aide (and I'm not at all convinced that it operates this way) through UNWRA, which has no authority to solve the issue, then that definition would only apply to need for aide and not for the resolution.

Indeed. UNWRA is for aid only and has a different definition for people eligible for aid. It has no authority to resolve the problem.

The UNCCP was created by resolution 194 and uses that definition. It has the Mandate to resolve the problem.

Based on Article 1D of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, should assistance through UNWRA cease, Palestinian refugees would be considered under UNHCR -- just like all other refugees in the world.

I believe that to be correct, however, I believe this is disputed.

 

[Shusha]

The UNCCP was created by resolution 194 and uses that definition. It has the Mandate to resolve the problem.

More correctly, they have a Mandate to facilitate a resolution between the Governments involved.

I believe that to be correct, however, I believe this is disputed.

Disputed by whom? It seems fairly apparent based on the actual language in the Article. But it brings up an interesting dilemma for the Arab Palestinians who wish to destroy Israel with a flood of "refugees" in that there are very, very few Arabs who would fit the proper, universal definition of refugee. I can't see any reason why the definition of "refugee" used by UNWRA, as you correctly claim for determination of aide, should be the definition used for "right of return". Can you?

 

[rylah]

Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 to defined refugees and established UNCCP to provide a solution based on resolution 194. UNWRA was established in 1949, with a different definition of refugees based on the need for aid. The UNWRA does not have the authority to resolve the refugee problem.

This is more or less correct.

A couple of interesting things to note:

If the definition of refugees is solely based on need for aide (and I'm not at all convinced that it operates this way) through UNWRA, which has no authority to solve the issue, then that definition would only apply to need for aide and not for the resolution.

Indeed. UNWRA is for aid only and has a different definition for people eligible for aid. It has no authority to resolve the problem.

The UNCCP was created by resolution 194 and uses that definition. It has the Mandate to resolve the problem.

Based on Article 1D of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, should assistance through UNWRA cease, Palestinian refugees would be considered under UNHCR -- just like all other refugees in the world.

I believe that to be correct, however, I believe this is disputed.

Smoke and mirrors, both non-functional, point is all other refugees in the world are serviced by UNHCR, and get results with half the budget.

This is even the opinion of the Palestinian Center for Refugee Rights:

• "The experience of the UNCCP raises the question about what kind of international agency should be responsible for the protection of Palestinian refugees. Clearly, an unreformed UNCCP would be unable to provide the full range of protection afforded to all other refugees. Reform of the Commission's mandate, on the other hand, would require political and financial support from the international community. It must also be considered whether the UNCCP is the appropriate body functionally, given the fact that the Commission has little practical experience related to the implementation of durable solutions.

• Other alternatives that must be considered include transferring protection to an existing or new international agency. While Palestinian refugees have been regarded as outside the provisions of the 1951 Refugee Convention and the international protection provided by the UNHCR, a reinterpretation of the status of Palestinian refugees under Article 1D of the Convention indicates that Palestinian refugees should, in fact, be afforded protection by the UNHCR, due to the cessation of protection under the UNCCP.(36) The political, functional, and financial implications of UNHCR involvement must also be addressed before a decision is taken with regard to the most appropriate address for international protection of Palestinian refugees."

https://www.badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/bulletins-and-briefs/Brief-No.5.pdf

 

[Shusha]

• Other alternatives that must be considered include transferring protection to an existing or new international agency.

Yep. All of the actual refugees -- that is, those who were born before 1948 and who resided in the Mandate Palestine territory and remain outside their country of nationality or are stateless -- should be transferred to UNHRC and treated according to their standards.

Any country which has intentionally withheld citizenship from Stateless descendants of refugees, in contravention to several international laws, should be immediately required to grant citizenship.

All those refugees and descendants with citizenship in another State are already protected citizens of that State and need no further assistance.

Those people wishing to return home to the Arab-controlled areas of "Palestine" should be expedited immediately.

Since ALL refugees under UNGA 194 require compensation, I suggest the Arab countries who expelled their Jews, or incited conditions which required their Jews to leave, be required to provide that compensation and I suggest further that those Jews, having already been re-established in Israel, pass that compensation along to Arab welfare agencies for the re-establishment of descendants in Palestine.

If Palestine, Gaza and other States impacted by the changes require additional funding to improve infrastructure to accommodate these changes (building of schools, medical facilities, etc which seems to be the majority of UNWRA expenditures) that funding be given on that basis, with the understanding of a gradual withdrawal of funds as infrastructure is put in place and authority transfers away from the funding agencies into the States.

Solves all of the humanitarian problems. Prevents the deliberate destruction of Israel. Sound solution.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 to defined refugees and established UNCCP to provide a solution based on resolution 194. UNWRA was established in 1949, with a different definition of refugees based on the need for aid. The UNWRA does not have the authority to resolve the refugee problem.

This is more or less correct.

A couple of interesting things to note:

If the definition of refugees is solely based on need for aide (and I'm not at all convinced that it operates this way) through UNWRA, which has no authority to solve the issue, then that definition would only apply to need for aide and not for the resolution.

Indeed. UNWRA is for aid only and has a different definition for people eligible for aid. It has no authority to resolve the problem.

The UNCCP was created by resolution 194 and uses that definition. It has the Mandate to resolve the problem.

Based on Article 1D of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, should assistance through UNWRA cease, Palestinian refugees would be considered under UNHCR -- just like all other refugees in the world.

I believe that to be correct, however, I believe this is disputed.

Smoke and mirrors, both non-functional, point is all other refugees in the world are serviced by UNHCR, and get results with half the budget.

This is even the opinion of the Palestinian Center for Refugee Rights:

• "The experience of the UNCCP raises the question about what kind of international agency should be responsible for the protection of Palestinian refugees. Clearly, an unreformed UNCCP would be unable to provide the full range of protection afforded to all other refugees. Reform of the Commission's mandate, on the other hand, would require political and financial support from the international community. It must also be considered whether the UNCCP is the appropriate body functionally, given the fact that the Commission has little practical experience related to the implementation of durable solutions.

• Other alternatives that must be considered include transferring protection to an existing or new international agency. While Palestinian refugees have been regarded as outside the provisions of the 1951 Refugee Convention and the international protection provided by the UNHCR, a reinterpretation of the status of Palestinian refugees under Article 1D of the Convention indicates that Palestinian refugees should, in fact, be afforded protection by the UNHCR, due to the cessation of protection under the UNCCP.(36) The political, functional, and financial implications of UNHCR involvement must also be addressed before a decision is taken with regard to the most appropriate address for international protection of Palestinian refugees."

https://www.badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/bulletins-and-briefs/Brief-No.5.pdf

During its early years of operation, the UNCCP attempted to intervene with state parties to promote and protect the internationally-recognized rights of the refugees; promote measures to improve the situation of refugees; preserve and promote the restitution of refugee properties, and; promote durable solutions for refugees, including repatriation, resettlement, restitution, and compensation based on the unconditional principle of refugee choice.

 

[P F Tinmore]

• Other alternatives that must be considered include transferring protection to an existing or new international agency.

Yep. All of the actual refugees -- that is, those who were born before 1948 and who resided in the Mandate Palestine territory and remain outside their country of nationality or are stateless -- should be transferred to UNHRC and treated according to their standards.

Any country which has intentionally withheld citizenship from Stateless descendants of refugees, in contravention to several international laws, should be immediately required to grant citizenship.

All those refugees and descendants with citizenship in another State are already protected citizens of that State and need no further assistance.

Those people wishing to return home to the Arab-controlled areas of "Palestine" should be expedited immediately.

Since ALL refugees under UNGA 194 require compensation, I suggest the Arab countries who expelled their Jews, or incited conditions which required their Jews to leave, be required to provide that compensation and I suggest further that those Jews, having already been re-established in Israel, pass that compensation along to Arab welfare agencies for the re-establishment of descendants in Palestine.

If Palestine, Gaza and other States impacted by the changes require additional funding to improve infrastructure to accommodate these changes (building of schools, medical facilities, etc which seems to be the majority of UNWRA expenditures) that funding be given on that basis, with the understanding of a gradual withdrawal of funds as infrastructure is put in place and authority transfers away from the funding agencies into the States.

Solves all of the humanitarian problems. Prevents the deliberate destruction of Israel. Sound solution.

Link?

 

[rylah]

It all goes down to providing a single political group with special privileges and money on behalf of all other refugees in the world.

There's no point in funding any Palestinian specialized organization that is aimed at keeping refugees perpetually in that status while spending 4 times the budget of UNHCR

 

[Shusha]

• Other alternatives that must be considered include transferring protection to an existing or new international agency.

Yep. All of the actual refugees -- that is, those who were born before 1948 and who resided in the Mandate Palestine territory and remain outside their country of nationality or are stateless -- should be transferred to UNHRC and treated according to their standards.

Any country which has intentionally withheld citizenship from Stateless descendants of refugees, in contravention to several international laws, should be immediately required to grant citizenship.

All those refugees and descendants with citizenship in another State are already protected citizens of that State and need no further assistance.

Those people wishing to return home to the Arab-controlled areas of "Palestine" should be expedited immediately.

Since ALL refugees under UNGA 194 require compensation, I suggest the Arab countries who expelled their Jews, or incited conditions which required their Jews to leave, be required to provide that compensation and I suggest further that those Jews, having already been re-established in Israel, pass that compensation along to Arab welfare agencies for the re-establishment of descendants in Palestine.

If Palestine, Gaza and other States impacted by the changes require additional funding to improve infrastructure to accommodate these changes (building of schools, medical facilities, etc which seems to be the majority of UNWRA expenditures) that funding be given on that basis, with the understanding of a gradual withdrawal of funds as infrastructure is put in place and authority transfers away from the funding agencies into the States.

Solves all of the humanitarian problems. Prevents the deliberate destruction of Israel. Sound solution.

Link?

Link to what? Those are my own ideas for a solution to the "refugee problem".

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Rumor has it Israel is going to make a push at the UN to have UNRWA defunded and dissolved, and hopes the US will support her by withdrawing funding from the organization. Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely meets with US administration and members of Congress this week to discuss.

She claims the return of refugees (and all their descendants) is a key obstacle to peace, and if that option was removed from the Palestinian mindset, peace would be more likely achievable. She claims (and I agree wholeheartedly) that the return of the refugees descendants is intended primarily to reverse Jewish self-determination and destroy the nation of Israel.

I'll also point out that the idea of refugee status being a hereditary condition is unprecedented in history and in international law.

That whole group in the UN are a bunch or Racist and in most cases the Nation they are from are racist from the get go. Also they hate the US and I would support us leaving the UN and having them vacate the building they are in. And pay the parking tickets they owe New York.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Is that why Israel expelled 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continues to expel them today?

Did the surrounding ME countries expel their Jews because they WANTED the Jews on Jewish land and not on their land?

What land is Jewish land?

Much larger than it is now. Check the maps of history...much much larger land mass.

 

[Shusha]

It all goes down to providing a single political group with special privileges and money on behalf of all other refugees in the world.

There's no point in funding any Palestinian specialized organization that is aimed at keeping refugees perpetually in that status while spending 4 times the budget of UNHCR

It is the obligation of the Parties involved (all of them) and the international community to create conditions in which refugees cease to be refugees. That is the point of all international law with respect to refugees.

The idea that descendants of refugees are still considered refugees despite having met conditions which end refugee-status is ridiculous.

 

[rylah]

• Other alternatives that must be considered include transferring protection to an existing or new international agency.

Yep. All of the actual refugees -- that is, those who were born before 1948 and who resided in the Mandate Palestine territory and remain outside their country of nationality or are stateless -- should be transferred to UNHRC and treated according to their standards.

Any country which has intentionally withheld citizenship from Stateless descendants of refugees, in contravention to several international laws, should be immediately required to grant citizenship.

All those refugees and descendants with citizenship in another State are already protected citizens of that State and need no further assistance.

Those people wishing to return home to the Arab-controlled areas of "Palestine" should be expedited immediately.

Since ALL refugees under UNGA 194 require compensation, I suggest the Arab countries who expelled their Jews, or incited conditions which required their Jews to leave, be required to provide that compensation and I suggest further that those Jews, having already been re-established in Israel, pass that compensation along to Arab welfare agencies for the re-establishment of descendants in Palestine.

If Palestine, Gaza and other States impacted by the changes require additional funding to improve infrastructure to accommodate these changes (building of schools, medical facilities, etc which seems to be the majority of UNWRA expenditures) that funding be given on that basis, with the understanding of a gradual withdrawal of funds as infrastructure is put in place and authority transfers away from the funding agencies into the States.

Solves all of the humanitarian problems. Prevents the deliberate destruction of Israel. Sound solution.

As usual
A post worth of a UN resolution (if they were actually worth their name), and a Haley award, I think we found the one to knock down even those shoes.

 

[rylah]

It all goes down to providing a single political group with special privileges and money on behalf of all other refugees in the world.

There's no point in funding any Palestinian specialized organization that is aimed at keeping refugees perpetually in that status while spending 4 times the budget of UNHCR

It is the obligation of the Parties involved (all of them) and the international community to create conditions in which refugees cease to be refugees. That is the point of all international law with respect to refugees.

The idea that descendants of refugees are still considered refugees despite having met conditions which end refugee-status is ridiculous.

It is certainly ridiculous when American born super models are considered refugees.

According to that logic at least 55% of Israeli Jews are eligible for the same status as Palestinians refugees.

 

[Shusha]

It all goes down to providing a single political group with special privileges and money on behalf of all other refugees in the world.

There's no point in funding any Palestinian specialized organization that is aimed at keeping refugees perpetually in that status while spending 4 times the budget of UNHCR

It is the obligation of the Parties involved (all of them) and the international community to create conditions in which refugees cease to be refugees. That is the point of all international law with respect to refugees.

The idea that descendants of refugees are still considered refugees despite having met conditions which end refugee-status is ridiculous.

It is certainly ridiculous when American born super models are considered refugees.

According to that logic at least 55% of Israeli Jews are eligible for the same status as Palestinians refugees.

Well, if the standard is that all descendants of all displaced people are "refugees" in perpetuity then ALL Jews are also refugees. With a right to return.

 

[rylah]

Saudi attempt to force Lebanon to grant citizenship to refugees
Saudi Arabia and the Palestinians began an important development. During the last Hajj season, Saudi Arabia refused to admit Palestinians who do not have the full citizenship of any country and have no permanent visas. This affected refugees holding UNRWA ID cards, residents of East Jerusalem with Israeli residency, and Gazans of Jordan who do not have a Jordanian national number.

In order to solve the question of East Jerusalem, Jordan resolved a solution whereby the East Jerusalem Chamber of Commerce issued Jordanian visas for Hajj only, until a permanent solution was found.

Palestinians with Palestinian, Jordanian, or Lebanese citizenship could enter Saudi Arabia without a problem.

Sources in Ramallah told us that this was in line with the policy of Israel and the United States, in their opinion, to eliminate the refugee problem and to force Lebanon to grant Lebanese citizenship to the refugees.

In Jordan many refugees hold a refugee ID and Jordanian citizenship at the same time. Jordan tried to deprive these refugees of their citizenship, but this move was only partially successful.

In addition, there is the problem of Gazans who sneaked into Jordan through the Negev before Israel completed the fence around Gaza, and their number is estimated at 200-300,000. They also lack citizenship.

Regarding Syria and Lebanon, before the Syrian revolt broke out, Abu Mazen tried to convince them to give the refugees Palestinian citizenship. Syria rejected this proposal out of hand, Lebanon considered the matter, then refused, perhaps because of Syrian pressure.

Syria never recognized a Palestinian state and did not honor the Palestinian passport. Lebanon found in a proposal by Abu Mazen a solution that would prevent the Palestinians from assimilating among the Lebanese, thereby violating the balance of the evidence on which the Lebanese constitution is based. It can not be ruled out that this is exactly what Saudi Arabia wants to achieve - forcing Lebanon to absorb the Palestinian refugees and the Sunni refugees from Syria in order to turn the Shiites into a minority.

Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs

 

[rylah]

Jordan to issue passports for Jerusalemites through the Sharia Court in Jerusalem

Acting Chief Justice Wasef al-Bakri said that the Jordanian Civil Status and Passports Department will soon launch the renewal of passports service through the Islamic Court in occupied Jerusalem to alleviate them.

Al-Bakri arrived at his office at Al-Aqsa Mosque on Tuesday, a delegation from the Jordanian Civil Status and Passport Department, in order to prepare the necessary arrangements for the renewal of the passport renewal service through the Sharia Court.

The move comes in line with a Jordanian pledge to reduce passports fees for Jerusalemites and treat them as Jordanians.

Palestinian Press Agency

 

[rylah]

Dr. Guy Bechor on defending UNRWA and the Jordanian option

Comment: Dr. Bechor is one of the most relevant middle east analysts, I usually agree with his views except for his early support for disengagement from Gaza and the current Jordanian option, however I found this relevant to share.

Make Your own concisions - one thing for sure - the paradigm of 1 State vs 2 State solution has clearly changed, the lexicon has already changed, and a wide range of alternatives is taking the main stage.

 

[rylah]

How does UNRWA impact Palestinians and Israelis?

 

[rylah]

The Difference Between Jewish and Arab Refugee Stories