CDZ Islamophobia

[JoeB131]

This thread never belonged in a forum dedicated to civility anyway Meister. I mean the very "islamophobia" was entirely meant as an insult to begin with.

"Oh you look at stats and recognize that a religion has more than their fare share of violent members? Bigot"

How do you respond civilly to that?

Pointing out the stats don't really bear out your position? That would probably be a good start.

Let's not forget, the worst atrocities committed in history were by European Christians wearing belt buckles that read "Gott Mitt Uns" (God's with us!) The Priests and Ministers of Germany blessed the troops right before they went out to war and the Pope couldn't pick a side.

 

[DandyDonovan]

This thread never belonged in a forum dedicated to civility anyway Meister. I mean the very "islamophobia" was entirely meant as an insult to begin with.

"Oh you look at stats and recognize that a religion has more than their fare share of violent members? Bigot"

How do you respond civilly to that?

Pointing out the stats don't really bear out your position? That would probably be a good start.

Let's not forget, the worst atrocities committed in history were by European Christians wearing belt buckles that read "Gott Mitt Uns" (God's with us!) The Priests and Ministers of Germany blessed the troops right before they went out to war and the Pope couldn't pick a side.

Frankly , I don't care about 500 years ago. It has zero bearing on what is happening TODAY

 

[there4eyeM]

This thread never belonged in a forum dedicated to civility anyway Meister. I mean the very "islamophobia" was entirely meant as an insult to begin with.

"Oh you look at stats and recognize that a religion has more than their fare share of violent members? Bigot"

How do you respond civilly to that?

Pointing out the stats don't really bear out your position? That would probably be a good start.

Let's not forget, the worst atrocities committed in history were by European Christians wearing belt buckles that read "Gott Mitt Uns" (God's with us!) The Priests and Ministers of Germany blessed the troops right before they went out to war and the Pope couldn't pick a side.

Humans have committed "atrocities" throughout time. The Nazis committed atrocities as horrible as can be imagined. Soviet Russia did also, at the same time. China did. Cambodia did. It is not only impossible, it is wrong to say what the Nazis did was the worst of all history, and much more incorrect to associate a religion with what was, in the case of Nazi Germany, done in the name of an idiotic doctrine.

 

[JoeB131]

Frankly , I don't care about 500 years ago. It has zero bearing on what is happening TODAY

World war II was 70 years ago. Gott Mit Uns!

Humans have committed "atrocities" throughout time. The Nazis committed atrocities as horrible as can be imagined. Soviet Russia did also, at the same time. China did. Cambodia did. It is not only impossible, it is wrong to say what the Nazis did was the worst of all history, and much more incorrect to associate a religion with what was, in the case of Nazi Germany, done in the name of an idiotic doctrine.

an idiotic doctrine that was totally supported by Christians.
Hey, remember that time when Pius XII got on Vatican Radio and denounced what the Nazis and Fascists were doing?

Oh, that's right. He never did.

 

[there4eyeM]

Frankly , I don't care about 500 years ago. It has zero bearing on what is happening TODAY

World war II was 70 years ago. Gott Mit Uns!

Humans have committed "atrocities" throughout time. The Nazis committed atrocities as horrible as can be imagined. Soviet Russia did also, at the same time. China did. Cambodia did. It is not only impossible, it is wrong to say what the Nazis did was the worst of all history, and much more incorrect to associate a religion with what was, in the case of Nazi Germany, done in the name of an idiotic doctrine.

an idiotic doctrine that was totally supported by Christians.
Hey, remember that time when Pius XII got on Vatican Radio and denounced what the Nazis and Fascists were doing?

Oh, that's right. He never did.

The people on the beaches at Normandy were, in the majority, of what persuasion, in your view? What group but the bullet through the heart of Nazisim?
Such arguments as yours elicit what appears to be defense of Christianity even from those of us who are not Christian. It is not defending that religion, however, it is defending common sense.

 

[JoeB131]

The people on the beaches at Normandy were, in the majority, of what persuasion, in your view? What group but the bullet through the heart of Nazisim?

Actually if you want to get technical, most of the heavy lifting in the European Theater was done by the Godless Soviets.

Such arguments as yours elicit what appears to be defense of Christianity even from those of us who are not Christian. It is not defending that religion, however, it is defending common sense.

Uh-huh. Here was the thing. The only "sides" Churches took in WWII depended on what country they were in.

The Pope looked at Hitler and Mussolini and said, "Hey, these guys will protect us from Communism!"

Oh, after the war, they were all really sorry.

 

[there4eyeM]

The people on the beaches at Normandy were, in the majority, of what persuasion, in your view? What group but the bullet through the heart of Nazisim?

Actually if you want to get technical, most of the heavy lifting in the European Theater was done by the Godless Soviets.

Such arguments as yours elicit what appears to be defense of Christianity even from those of us who are not Christian. It is not defending that religion, however, it is defending common sense.

Uh-huh. Here was the thing. The only "sides" Churches took in WWII depended on what country they were in.

The Pope looked at Hitler and Mussolini and said, "Hey, these guys will protect us from Communism!"

Oh, after the war, they were all really sorry.

Therefore, we can state that some religious leaders in countries controlled by dictatorships, with a gun virtually at their head, did not "man-up" and resist. Meanwhile, many other nations of similar theological orientation poured their wealth and youth into titanic struggle against those dictatorships, and defeated them.

 

[JoeB131]

Therefore, we can state that some religious leaders in countries controlled by dictatorships, with a gun virtually at their head, did not "man-up" and resist. Meanwhile, many other nations of similar theological orientation poured their wealth and youth into titanic struggle against those dictatorships, and defeated them.

Uh, the Pope was the leader of Catholics for THE WHOLE WORLD.

Not just Italy and Germany.

Now, here's the thing, if the Pope really believed the nonsense he spewed, he'd have welcomed being shot by the Nazis right after making his speech telling all good Catholics to lay down their arms and not fight for the Axis. He'd go RIGHT TO HEAVEN and become the most venerated of Saints. (They are trying to make Pius XII a Saint, anyway, which is just obscene!)

You see, when I grew up Catholic, we got treated to a bunch of stories about how the Saints all happily died for what is right. The Grammar School I went to was named after a saint who let the Romans kill all seven of her sons before she'd renounce her faith.

But the Pope couldn't say, "Hey, guys, maybe we shouldn't follow these genocidal madmen into a war!"

 

[DandyDonovan]

What does whether Christians fought Nazis in WWII have to do with what Muslims are doing today?

Come on Meister, I thought derailing threads was gauche?

 

[JoeB131]

What does whether Christians fought Nazis in WWII have to do with what Muslims are doing today?

Come on Meister, I thought derailing threads was gauche?

So you only want to talk about THEIR atrocities and not OUR atrocities.

Got it.

 

[there4eyeM]

Establishing that "their" atrocities are equaled by "our" atrocities doesn't appear to be a very sound defense of "their" atrocities, whomever "their" and "our" could ever represent.
Hating, for example, group '?' for doing something would logical entail hating '!' as well for doing the same thing.
Thus, one could conclude, "Joe B hates Islamists; got it!"
.

 

[JoeB131]

Establishing that "their" atrocities are equaled by "our" atrocities doesn't appear to be a very sound defense of "their" atrocities, whomever "their" and "our" could ever represent.
Hating, for example, group '?' for doing something would logical entail hating '!' as well for doing the same thing.
Thus, one could conclude, "Joe B hates Islamists; got it!"

Not at all... I've made my position clear for the last 20 pages. But to recap.

1) Their religion isn't any sillier than any other religion. All religion is a little silly and can be abused to incite violence.

2) We have a violence problem in that part of the world because we keep invading it, not because of their religion .

3) The people pulling the strings on the gullible - the Zionists and the Oil Companies - are happy to play on bigotry to get regular folks to gleefully march their kids off to wars they benefit from.

4) After 29 years of playing Hall Monitor in the Persian Gulf, you'd think we'd get smarter about this.

 

[DandyDonovan]

What does whether Christians fought Nazis in WWII have to do with what Muslims are doing today?

Come on Meister, I thought derailing threads was gauche?

So you only want to talk about THEIR atrocities and not OUR atrocities.

Got it.

Joe, have you seen me say ANYTHING about what Muslims did 500 years ago? No you haven't.

I'm done trying to have discussions with you. iT's a waste of time.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, have you seen me say ANYTHING about what Muslims did 500 years ago? No you haven't.

I'm done trying to have discussions with you. iT's a waste of time.

I'm still shocked you think WWII happened 500 years ago, but whatever.

I'm sorry I am not validating your hate... but I've staked out my position. I don't think they are the enemy because the Zionists say so.

 

[DandyDonovan]

Joe, have you seen me say ANYTHING about what Muslims did 500 years ago? No you haven't.

I'm done trying to have discussions with you. iT's a waste of time.

I'm still shocked you think WWII happened 500 years ago, but whatever.

I'm sorry I am not validating your hate... but I've staked out my position. I don't think they are the enemy because the Zionists say so.

One more response to you in this thread just to point out the obvious.

YOU have shown hate towards one group in this thread. I have not.


Now, have a good day.

 

[Coyote]

Islamophobia....

Planned Attack On Muslim Community In Upstate New York Disrupted, Police Say

Planned Attack On Muslim Community In Upstate New York Disrupted, Police Say

Police in upstate New York have arrested three men and a 16-year-old youth on weapons and conspiracy charges. The four allegedly plotted a bomb attack against an Islamic community. At a news conference Tuesday, police chief Patrick Phelan from Greece, N.Y., a suburb outside Rochester, said the suspects assembled an arsenal including more than 20 firearms and three improvised explosive devices.

"There was a plan to attack this community with weapons," Phelan said. "If they had carried out this plot — and there's every indication is that they were going to — people would have died. I don't know how many and who, but people would have died."

Phelan declined to talk about the motive for the attack, citing the ongoing investigation.

Islamberg lies in a rural area a three-hour drive from Rochester. It was settled by Muslim families in the 1980s, and about 200 people live there. Local authorities and neighbors say the community is peaceful, a long-established part of the region's culture.

In recent years Islamberg has become the target of suspicion and conspiracy theories among right-wing groups and conservative media, including the Alex Jones program Infowars. One broadcast on Fox News suggested that people in the Islamic "compound" were "stockpiling guns" in response to the election of President Trump...

...State police and the FBI have regularly debunked claims that Islamberg poses a danger to the wider community. Still, anti-Muslim activists regularly hold protests nearby. Lisa Joseph, a conservative activist from Syracuse, joined a rally in 2017 and told NPR that she would "not tolerate ISIS training camps, militant-style training camps, radicalized training camps" in upstate New York.

 

[DandyDonovan]

Islamophobia....

Planned Attack On Muslim Community In Upstate New York Disrupted, Police Say

Planned Attack On Muslim Community In Upstate New York Disrupted, Police Say

Police in upstate New York have arrested three men and a 16-year-old youth on weapons and conspiracy charges. The four allegedly plotted a bomb attack against an Islamic community. At a news conference Tuesday, police chief Patrick Phelan from Greece, N.Y., a suburb outside Rochester, said the suspects assembled an arsenal including more than 20 firearms and three improvised explosive devices.

"There was a plan to attack this community with weapons," Phelan said. "If they had carried out this plot — and there's every indication is that they were going to — people would have died. I don't know how many and who, but people would have died."

Phelan declined to talk about the motive for the attack, citing the ongoing investigation.

Islamberg lies in a rural area a three-hour drive from Rochester. It was settled by Muslim families in the 1980s, and about 200 people live there. Local authorities and neighbors say the community is peaceful, a long-established part of the region's culture.

In recent years Islamberg has become the target of suspicion and conspiracy theories among right-wing groups and conservative media, including the Alex Jones program Infowars. One broadcast on Fox News suggested that people in the Islamic "compound" were "stockpiling guns" in response to the election of President Trump...

...State police and the FBI have regularly debunked claims that Islamberg poses a danger to the wider community. Still, anti-Muslim activists regularly hold protests nearby. Lisa Joseph, a conservative activist from Syracuse, joined a rally in 2017 and told NPR that she would "not tolerate ISIS training camps, militant-style training camps, radicalized training camps" in upstate New York.

That is wrong and to be condemned. I condemn attacking Muslims simply because they are Muslims.

Now let me ask you a tengentially related question.

How come VERY liberals can ever issue such a simple condemnation when Christians are attacked for no reason? Instead we get the same old bullshit "Oh here we go with war on Christians conspiracy" "oh Christians are such snowflakes" or the Christians are simply blame for starting it even if they did nothing wrong (ala the Covington students)

Why is that? The only conclusion a reasonable person can reach is that these folks do not actually care if innocent people are attacked.

 

[Coyote]

Islamophobia....

Planned Attack On Muslim Community In Upstate New York Disrupted, Police Say

Planned Attack On Muslim Community In Upstate New York Disrupted, Police Say

Police in upstate New York have arrested three men and a 16-year-old youth on weapons and conspiracy charges. The four allegedly plotted a bomb attack against an Islamic community. At a news conference Tuesday, police chief Patrick Phelan from Greece, N.Y., a suburb outside Rochester, said the suspects assembled an arsenal including more than 20 firearms and three improvised explosive devices.

"There was a plan to attack this community with weapons," Phelan said. "If they had carried out this plot — and there's every indication is that they were going to — people would have died. I don't know how many and who, but people would have died."

Phelan declined to talk about the motive for the attack, citing the ongoing investigation.

Islamberg lies in a rural area a three-hour drive from Rochester. It was settled by Muslim families in the 1980s, and about 200 people live there. Local authorities and neighbors say the community is peaceful, a long-established part of the region's culture.

In recent years Islamberg has become the target of suspicion and conspiracy theories among right-wing groups and conservative media, including the Alex Jones program Infowars. One broadcast on Fox News suggested that people in the Islamic "compound" were "stockpiling guns" in response to the election of President Trump...

...State police and the FBI have regularly debunked claims that Islamberg poses a danger to the wider community. Still, anti-Muslim activists regularly hold protests nearby. Lisa Joseph, a conservative activist from Syracuse, joined a rally in 2017 and told NPR that she would "not tolerate ISIS training camps, militant-style training camps, radicalized training camps" in upstate New York.

That is wrong and to be condemned. I condemn attacking Muslims simply because they are Muslims.

Now let me ask you a tengentially related question.

How come VERY liberals can ever issue such a simple condemnation when Christians are attacked for no reason? Instead we get the same old bullshit "Oh here we go with war on Christians conspiracy" "oh Christians are such snowflakes" or the Christians are simply blame for starting it even if they did nothing wrong (ala the Covington students)

Why is that? The only conclusion a reasonable person can reach is that these folks do not actually care if innocent people are attacked.

The Covington students were not attacked because of their religion.

I think that the war on Christians is largely hype and the reason I say that is they cant point out any special rights other faiths get that dont also apply to them. They are by far the cultural and religious majority in this nation, the religious holidays are state and federal holidays. They carry a poweful political clout. Much of the conflict labeled as "war" iis a conflict of rights in civil society, who's rights are more important?

I do agree though with the fact that the left tends to be very intolerant and even disrespectful of Christians while they simultaneously champion the rights of other faiths. We are a country who's very exhistence is built upon an underpinning of religious freedom. For all. It doesnt hurt anyone to show respect, compassion and tolerance for other points of view. We are all bound by our Constitution after all.

If there are attacks on Christians like the one in the article, they should be called out for what they are. But there really arent many because Christians in this country are a majority. It is minorities that tend to get scapegoated because the lack the power to fight back, they tend to be defined as the Other in times of stress.

 

[JoeB131]

How come VERY liberals can ever issue such a simple condemnation when Christians are attacked for no reason? Instead we get the same old bullshit "Oh here we go with war on Christians conspiracy" "oh Christians are such snowflakes" or the Christians are simply blame for starting it even if they did nothing wrong (ala the Covington students)

The Covington students DID do something wrong. They engaged in a confrontation with other people who had legitimate rights to gather.

Nobody beat these little punks up. "Oh, my Gosh, he played a drum in my face!" Booo,hooo.

Apparently, you can go to a $8000 a year Catholic School and still not learn any manners.

The notion that when Christians can't impose their beliefs on the rest of us, they are being oppressed, is silly.

"You said 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas'? Help, help, I'm being oppressed!"

 

[DandyDonovan]

How come VERY liberals can ever issue such a simple condemnation when Christians are attacked for no reason? Instead we get the same old bullshit "Oh here we go with war on Christians conspiracy" "oh Christians are such snowflakes" or the Christians are simply blame for starting it even if they did nothing wrong (ala the Covington students)

The Covington students DID do something wrong. They engaged in a confrontation with other people who had legitimate rights to gather.

Nobody beat these little punks up. "Oh, my Gosh, he played a drum in my face!" Booo,hooo.

Apparently, you can go to a $8000 a year Catholic School and still not learn any manners.

The notion that when Christians can't impose their beliefs on the rest of us, they are being oppressed, is silly.

"You said 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas'? Help, help, I'm being oppressed!"

That's a load of nonsense Joe. The Covington kids did nothing wrong. The Indian drummer got in THEIR faces.

The black Jews were screaming obscenities, yet you have ZERO to say about that.