Isaiah 53, the forbidden chapter of the Hebrew Bible

[ESay]

It is amazing how so called Christians bring up this passage to support the narrative about Jesus, but at the same time completely ignore 11th and 12th paragraphs which completely refute the absurd idea of Jesus' divinity.

Jesus is God and human. The problem isn't Christians. The problem is ignorance of Scripture.

Jesus is God and human. Okay. What point did you want to make?

I made it. Some verses speak of the humanity of Jesus. Some verses speak of His Divinity

And what does it have to do with the OP or my response to it?

I responded to the post that Christians are confused about Scripture. That's not true. In fact, the Apostle Paul said that it's the unbelievers who have a veil over their eyes which is only lifted by Faith in Jesus Christ.

Actually, you misunderstood my point. I didn't say that Christians are confused about their scripture. What I said is that it is pointless to bring up a verse, in order to support some claim, while part of the verse contradicts their narrative.

Are you claiming Isaiah 53 isn't referring to the Messiah?

I am claiming that Isaiah says about a human being.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

 

[irosie91]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

 

[irosie91]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

it isn't. There are COMMENTARIES on all of the books. I have no idea how anyone decided that this or that is "rarely read"------people read that which they want to read. If you are referring to that which is read PUBLICALLY which his the way
scriptural texts were taught thousands of years ago, that which was read publically----sorta OBLIGATORY was the scroll----the Torah---also called CHUMASH (5 books) ----various PARTS of the book called "naviem" (don't quote me---I am not sure I got that right) which means THE PROPHETS-----get thrown in. However there is no "INDEX" citing "fobidden books"

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

it isn't. There are COMMENTARIES on all of the books. I have no idea how anyone decided that this or that is "rarely read"------people read that which they want to read. If you are referring to that which is read PUBLICALLY which his the way
scriptural texts were taught thousands of years ago, that which was read publically----sorta OBLIGATORY was the scroll----the Torah---also called CHUMASH (5 books) ----various PARTS of the book called "naviem" (don't quote me---I am not sure I got that right) which means THE PROPHETS-----get thrown in. However there is no "INDEX" citing "fobidden books"

You may wish to read this. I've no wish to destroy your faith; rather I wish for GOD to speak to you. Mere scholarly considerations and interpretations never saved anyone. Salvation is of the LORD. Please consider the following: How Do Orthodox Jews Read Isaiah 53? - BJU Seminary

 

[Meriweather]

You may wish to read this. I've no wish to destroy your faith; rather I wish for GOD to speak to you. Mere scholarly considerations and interpretations never saved anyone. Salvation is of the LORD. Please consider the following: How Do Orthodox Jews Read Isaiah 53? - BJU Seminary

First, BJU is a Christian Seminary and look for those to support their own point.

Have you considered the fact that the Bible (including the Book of Isaiah) was not divided into Chapters and Verses until about the fourth century? Read straight through to what is now Chapter 54, and it is obvious Isaiah is speaking about a nation. Take a look at Chapter 52. The same applies.

I am amazed by Matthew's Gospel, because as far as I know, he was the first to understand that Christ's life mirrored the history of Israel; to tell the story of one was a reminder of the story of the other. Both are true and therefore it is impossible to destroy one's faith, whether that faith be Judaism or Christianity. The question is, when Isaiah wrote these words, was he referencing the current affairs of a nation and what might come after--or was he referencing an individual who wouldn't be born for over another 700 years? I say the former. Isaiah was written to and for the people of his own day--and later we see the pattern of Isaiah's day in Christ who, by the way, had to be quite familiar with the account. Clearly, he took its advice.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

when you say "read" ----do you mean READ OUT LOUD in the synagogue? Or read by a person who feels like reading? There is no
INDEX in Judaism----HOWEVER some people consider it NOT A GOOD IDEA to read the
KABBALAH (a whole different book). I have never heard of a proscription on the reading of Isaiah-------HOWEVER those numbers you have to designate parts and pages and verses are not a jewish thing

 

[LittleNipper]

You may wish to read this. I've no wish to destroy your faith; rather I wish for GOD to speak to you. Mere scholarly considerations and interpretations never saved anyone. Salvation is of the LORD. Please consider the following: How Do Orthodox Jews Read Isaiah 53? - BJU Seminary

First, BJU is a Christian Seminary and look for those to support their own point.

Have you considered the fact that the Bible (including the Book of Isaiah) was not divided into Chapters and Verses until about the fourth century? Read straight through to what is now Chapter 54, and it is obvious Isaiah is speaking about a nation. Take a look at Chapter 52. The same applies.

I am amazed by Matthew's Gospel, because as far as I know, he was the first to understand that Christ's life mirrored the history of Israel; to tell the story of one was a reminder of the story of the other. Both are true and therefore it is impossible to destroy one's faith, whether that faith be Judaism or Christianity. The question is, when Isaiah wrote these words, was he referencing the current affairs of a nation and what might come after--or was he referencing an individual who wouldn't be born for over another 700 years? I say the former. Isaiah was written to and for the people of his own day--and later we see the pattern of Isaiah's day in Christ who, by the way, had to be quite familiar with the account. Clearly, he took its advice.

I would suggest like other prophetic messages found in the Bible, the passages have multiple meanings. One is not necessary right and the other wrong, they both are correct. An example would be regarding the King of Tyre and his comparison to the morning star, and also the fall of Satan. That is the way with GOD's Holy Word. He provides a vast amount of data at the same time. And this is why we are to study the Bible prayerfully.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

when you say "read" ----do you mean READ OUT LOUD in the synagogue? Or read by a person who feels like reading? There is no
INDEX in Judaism----HOWEVER some people consider it NOT A GOOD IDEA to read the
KABBALAH (a whole different book). I have never heard of a proscription on the reading of Isaiah-------HOWEVER those numbers you have to designate parts and pages and verses are not a jewish thing

It seems apparent to me that whether there are numbered chapters and verses in the Orthodox Hebrew text or not, apparently; there are sections of scripture seemingly considered uncomfortable for Jews to read and are methodically and or conveniently skipped for whatever reason. And Jews in general appear unfamiliar that they exist. My spirit tells me that many Jews tend to ignore what they don't wish to confront head on. This is true with everyone ---- not just Jews. "Christian" evolutionists don't like to necessary read the Genesis account for obvious reasons. It makes them uncomfortable. It is far easier to stick with a Bible study that doesn't appear confrontational to what one has already come to accept.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

when you say "read" ----do you mean READ OUT LOUD in the synagogue? Or read by a person who feels like reading? There is no
INDEX in Judaism----HOWEVER some people consider it NOT A GOOD IDEA to read the
KABBALAH (a whole different book). I have never heard of a proscription on the reading of Isaiah-------HOWEVER those numbers you have to designate parts and pages and verses are not a jewish thing

It seems apparent to me that whether there are numbered chapters and verses in the Orthodox Hebrew text or not, apparently; there are sections of scripture seemingly considered uncomfortable for Jews to read and are methodically and or conveniently skipped for whatever reason. And Jews in general appear unfamiliar that they exist. My spirit tells me that many Jews tend to ignore what they don't wish to confront head on. This is true with everyone ---- not just Jews. "Christian" evolutionists don't like to necessary read the Genesis account for obvious reasons. It makes them uncomfortable. It is far easier to stick with a Bible study that doesn't appear confrontational to what one has already come to accept.

it seems to me that you have believed lots of
bullshit. I have been a jew all my life and no one ever told me not to read this or that part of
the "tanach". My hubby grew up in a very orthodox household in a community in which knowing every detail of the tanach was almost
an obsession-----he laughed at your allegation.
I have no "jewish education" to speak of-----but even little me memorized parts of Isaiah in my little teensy hebrew. I grew up in a very christian town in the USA-----lots of people like you believe lots of "stuff"

 

[fncceo]

I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar.

You don't read the language of your Bible, but you claim to know it?

 

[fncceo]

apparently; there are sections of scripture seemingly considered uncomfortable for Jews to read and are methodically and or conveniently skipped for whatever reason.

Actually, not true ... every letter of scripture is read aloud in temple, twice each week, over the 54 weeks of the Hebrew Calendar.

Nothing is skipped, missed, or eliminated.

 

[irosie91]

apparently; there are sections of scripture seemingly considered uncomfortable for Jews to read and are methodically and or conveniently skipped for whatever reason.

Actually, not true ... every letter of scripture is read aloud in temple, twice each week, over the 54 weeks of the Hebrew Calendar.

Nothing is skipped, missed, or eliminated.

are you sure? what are you calling "scripture"?
The catholics call the book of JUDITH "scripture"-----don't quote me---I am not sure. As to Isaiah----it seems to me that he CERTAINLY comes up somewhere during the year------in ENTIRETY but I am not sure. I am not sure about DANIEL either-----he is written in aramaic------and then there is the issue of some minor differences between the customs of this or that community-----eg ashkenazi vs mizrachi vs yemenite. As to the christian interpretation of things------IT's MIND-BOGGLING

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

when you say "read" ----do you mean READ OUT LOUD in the synagogue? Or read by a person who feels like reading? There is no
INDEX in Judaism----HOWEVER some people consider it NOT A GOOD IDEA to read the
KABBALAH (a whole different book). I have never heard of a proscription on the reading of Isaiah-------HOWEVER those numbers you have to designate parts and pages and verses are not a jewish thing

It seems apparent to me that whether there are numbered chapters and verses in the Orthodox Hebrew text or not, apparently; there are sections of scripture seemingly considered uncomfortable for Jews to read and are methodically and or conveniently skipped for whatever reason. And Jews in general appear unfamiliar that they exist. My spirit tells me that many Jews tend to ignore what they don't wish to confront head on. This is true with everyone ---- not just Jews. "Christian" evolutionists don't like to necessary read the Genesis account for obvious reasons. It makes them uncomfortable. It is far easier to stick with a Bible study that doesn't appear confrontational to what one has already come to accept.

it seems to me that you have believed lots of
bullshit. I have been a jew all my life and no one ever told me not to read this or that part of
the "tanach". My hubby grew up in a very orthodox household in a community in which knowing every detail of the tanach was almost
an obsession-----he laughed at your allegation.
I have no "jewish education" to speak of-----but even little me memorized parts of Isaiah in my little teensy hebrew. I grew up in a very christian town in the USA-----lots of people like you believe lots of "stuff"

So, your hubby reads the scripture and is apparently is obsessed with scripture... So, what assurances (scripturely speaking), does a Jew have regarding where he or she will spend eternity and why?

Sure, there are people who are labeled "Christians" for various reasons; however, if the "stuff" they accept has no scriptural support or is totally contrary to what GOD reveals through HIS word, then the bases for their faith/belief isn't very sturdy ----- if valid at all.

Are all Jews ORTHODOX? I don't believe so... Is it correct of me to lump all Jews together? I don't believe so... Can "Messianic" Jews be regarded as Jewish Christians? Are such any less Jewish than all the other sects of Jews? I believe these are all valid questions and point out the simple truth that all Jews don't wish to be lumped together anymore than all "Christians" wish to be lumped together.

I can witness to a Jehovah Witness and consider him a confused individual; however, I would never consider him a fellow Christian any more than I would consider a Mormon a "Christian". Because both discount that JESUS was/is God (One with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT) rather they see HIM to be a mere demigod doing GOD's bidding. Christian's for a start MUST believe JESUS is God in the flesh (accepting the TRINITY as doctrine). I can accept a fellow Christian having a hard time with that knowledge; however, not understanding how something works doesn't mean that someone doesn't accept it in faith upon studying the scriptures.

 

[fncceo]

So, what assurances (scripturely speaking), does a Jew have regarding where he or she will spend eternity and why?

Isn't that between a Jew and G-d? Are you thinking of converting?

 

[irosie91]

Jesus is the story of Israel; Israel is the story of Jesus.

I very much doubt this chapter is forbidden. Rather, many of the Jewish faith believe the passage is not about a single person, but the nation of Israel (or God's people) as a whole. A chapter that is very much about them as a whole (even when others see a description of one person) would certainly not be forbidden or rejected.

Isaiah 53: About the People of Israel or Messiah of Israel? - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Without a doubt, Isaiah 53 is one of the most significant chapters in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah. It is also one of the most troubling chapters for the rabbis, because it prophesies very clearly that the Messiah will be rejected by his own people, will suffer, and will die for the...

www.oneforisrael.org

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

--‐----------

Interesting article. Don't know how true it is.

sure---the truth is that nothing happened to Isaiah 53----it is, simply, not part of the HAFTORAH reading which is not a weekly TORAH reading-----simply an adjunct to the Parsha reading which is the True Blue Torah Parsha-----the haftorah is more like the after dinner mints. Isaiah 53 is STILL IN THE BOOK and anyone who can read ------can do so. As far as I remember, it is written in hebrew

So, what other portions of the Old Testament are not part of the "HAFTORAH" reading?

your question makes no sense. The haftorah readings are not the torah readings---they are
ancillary to the torah readings. You want to define your notion of "OLD TESTAMENT"?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know that "haftorah" readings have nothing to do with Old Testament scripture. And by the Old Testament, I'm referring to Genesis through Malachi.

the "READING" which is prescribed----in case you ever actually read the thing you call the Old Testament consists of the TORAH ---which is called "the five books of moses" -----for you that is Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. <<< thats five and that is what
the TORAH SCROLLS in a synagogue include. The entire scroll is read in the synagogue---openly, in the course of the year. The Haftorah is an ANCILLARY reading which is associated with the portion of the scroll read. The totality of haftorahs has is not that which the catholic church calls the "OLD TESTAMENT" As to the book ISAIAH-----the whole thing exists in that which jews generally consider something like that which you consider "OLD TESTAMENT" ----and it is call TANACH

I have read the entire Bible and even transcribed it over the course of several years on one website. Unfortunately, I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. Thank you for your enlightenment. However, the question still exists: Are portions of the Tanach rarely if ever read. And if Isaiah 53 is rarely if ever read by those of the Jewish faith, are there other portions of the Tanach which are also in the same boat (as it were). And why do you think that is?

when you say "read" ----do you mean READ OUT LOUD in the synagogue? Or read by a person who feels like reading? There is no
INDEX in Judaism----HOWEVER some people consider it NOT A GOOD IDEA to read the
KABBALAH (a whole different book). I have never heard of a proscription on the reading of Isaiah-------HOWEVER those numbers you have to designate parts and pages and verses are not a jewish thing

It seems apparent to me that whether there are numbered chapters and verses in the Orthodox Hebrew text or not, apparently; there are sections of scripture seemingly considered uncomfortable for Jews to read and are methodically and or conveniently skipped for whatever reason. And Jews in general appear unfamiliar that they exist. My spirit tells me that many Jews tend to ignore what they don't wish to confront head on. This is true with everyone ---- not just Jews. "Christian" evolutionists don't like to necessary read the Genesis account for obvious reasons. It makes them uncomfortable. It is far easier to stick with a Bible study that doesn't appear confrontational to what one has already come to accept.

it seems to me that you have believed lots of
bullshit. I have been a jew all my life and no one ever told me not to read this or that part of
the "tanach". My hubby grew up in a very orthodox household in a community in which knowing every detail of the tanach was almost
an obsession-----he laughed at your allegation.
I have no "jewish education" to speak of-----but even little me memorized parts of Isaiah in my little teensy hebrew. I grew up in a very christian town in the USA-----lots of people like you believe lots of "stuff"

So, your hubby reads the scripture and is apparently is obsessed with scripture... So, what assurances (scripturely speaking), does a Jew have regarding where he or she will spend eternity and why?

Sure, there are people who are labeled "Christians" for various reasons; however, if the "stuff" they accept has no scriptural support or is totally contrary to what GOD reveals through HIS word, then the bases for their faith/belief isn't very sturdy ----- if valid at all.

Are all Jews ORTHODOX? I don't believe so... Is it correct of me to lump all Jews together? I don't believe so... Can "Messianic" Jews be regarded as Jewish Christians? Are such any less Jewish than all the other sects of Jews? I believe these are all valid questions and point out the simple truth that all Jews don't wish to be lumped together anymore than all "Christians" wish to be lumped together.

I can witness to a Jehovah Witness and consider him a confused individual; however, I would never consider him a fellow Christian any more than I would consider a Mormon a "Christian". Because both discount that JESUS was/is God (One with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT) rather they see HIM to be a mere demigod doing GOD's bidding. Christian's for a start MUST believe JESUS is God in the flesh (accepting the TRINITY as doctrine). I can accept a fellow Christian having a hard time with that knowledge; however, not understanding how something works doesn't mean that someone doesn't accept it in faith upon studying the scriptures.

I said Hubby comes from a community that is
obsessed with scriptural writings----ie he was born in Yemen, his parents HELD ON to the customs of that community.-----the "community" being---jews of yemen----not a cult camp in arizona